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Message started by Boogie_with_Stu on 06/19/15 at 18:04:39

Title: Tail light wattage?
Post by Boogie_with_Stu on 06/19/15 at 18:04:39

Anyone know how many watts our tail light/brake light pulls?

I'm considering adding a pair of running lights to the rear end, and dont want to add power drain. I figured if I went with a good quality LED brake light, and 2 small running lights....it would work OK so long as the new configuration pulls about the same power as the original incandescent brake light bulb.

Any help would be, as always, greatly appreciated.

Title: Re: Tail light wattage?
Post by Serowbot on 06/19/15 at 18:23:16

Most places rear running lights must be red...

You'll need a solid state flasher if you go LED...
That's the only way you'll stay below stock wattage...

Cheap LED lights are not very bright, and very directional...

Dave knows some good sources for bright ones...

Title: Re: Tail light wattage?
Post by oldNslow on 06/19/15 at 19:48:54

Varies a bit by manufacturer but an 1157 bulb is around 25 watts for the bright(brake) filament and around 8 watts for the dim(taillight) filament.

Title: Re: Tail light wattage?
Post by Dave on 06/20/15 at 03:46:28

This is an excellent LED bulb to use in the tail light, it uses 1 watt on the running light and 3 watts on the brake light. You can get it with a flasher that pulses 3 times when the brake is applied.....or without the pulse.

https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/car-strobe-modules/1157-led-bulb-w-brake-flasher-dual-function-1-high-power-led-bay15d-retrofit-car/923/2274/

https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/tail-brake-turn/1157-led-bulb-w-reflector-lens-dual-function-1-high-power-led-bay15d-retrofit-car/922/

Title: Re: Tail light wattage?
Post by Art Webb on 06/20/15 at 07:24:11

Nice, I thought the bulbs would be higher priced

Title: Re: Tail light wattage?
Post by Boogie_with_Stu on 06/20/15 at 07:44:18

Thanks for the info and the links!

Ok, so if I drop the tail light/brake light to 3 watts max, I should have plenty left over to add 2 10-12 watt incandescent red running lights.

I picked up a beautiful set of zip-off saddlebags but the stock turn signals are in the way. I'm going to relocate them to the license plate area. I also have a very nice set of black mini-bullet lights with red lenses that use small 10 watt peanut bulbs that I was thinking of putting on the fender as red running lights.

So, the new bullet lights with an LED replacement bulb = 23 watts. The stock turn signals will stay the same, just in a different location.

Title: Re: Tail light wattage?
Post by Dave on 06/20/15 at 08:26:30

Well.....you are actually only reducing the 8 watt running light down to a 1 watt running light....and saving 7 watts.

The brake light portion of the bulb will be reducing the load from 24 watts down to 3 watts - but honestly how much of your ride is the brake light on........1% of your total ride time? Same thing for the turn signals.....they are very little of the total ride time. If your could find a clear or amber 1157 bulb to put in the front turn signals/running lamps you could save some energy....both front running lights are using 8 watts each.

Title: Re: Tail light wattage?
Post by Boogie_with_Stu on 06/20/15 at 15:26:23

Duh :-? My helmet must have been on too tight that day lol. Thanks Dave.

Sooooooooo....rather than two 10 watt red running lights in the rear, I can use two 3 watt Cree LED bulbs in the running lights.

(another math attempt: this could get ugly)

tail light at 1 watt + two red running lights at 3 watts each = 7 watts.

Better?

I have tons of stuff lying around from years of electronic projects. LED's and ballast resistors and switches and dials and buttons and...well, you get it.

Right now I am still working on re-positioning the rear turn signals so the new bags can fit. I moved the rectifier to the low area just rear of the air intake so the saddlebag strap would lay flat. Going to mount the turn signals on the license plate with a home brew bracket.

I did have the Sportster seat on it but it just didnt feel right...and I hated all that open space under the seat. I may try heating up the plastic seat tray and bending it more to my liking. I'd give my left nut for that beautiful seat that Corbin makes for the Savage...but at $330 it aint happenin'.

Title: Re: Tail light wattage?
Post by chzeckmate on 06/21/15 at 00:26:24

7E73737B7579316B756874316F68691C0 wrote:

...I moved the rectifier to the low area just rear of the air intake so the saddlebag strap would lay flat. Going to mount the turn signals on the license plate with a home brew bracket...

Title: Re: Tail light wattage?
Post by old_rider on 06/21/15 at 20:32:56

Ok, now i'm confused.

If I lower the voltage of my lighting, my rectifier is going to burn up?

Title: Re: Tail light wattage?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/21/15 at 20:43:22

The charge system output is only slightly less than the bike uses, leaving only a few watts to be dumped, in the form of heat.
Decreasing the amount USED increases the amount that the RR has to dump.

Title: Re: Tail light wattage?
Post by Steve H on 06/21/15 at 21:33:24

OR

No, it won't burn up. But, it will cause it to have to sink more power making it run hotter which will eventually kill it.

Shindengen doesn't provide data sheets. They say they manufacture for manufacturers only and contact your motorcycle manufacturer for specs.

From what little I have been able to find, our regulator is approx a 20A unit. The Diodes will handle 20 amps. It should be able to sink around 20A with good ventilation and cooling. Begin derating at 40deg C. I can't find a derating factor or formula though. The diodes generate heat switching as well as the heat being generated from burning off the excess power.

I have seen wattage quoted for our stator from around 100 to 180w.
I have no way of knowing which is right. 100w would be just over 8 amps at 12v or 7A at 14v. 180w is 15A at 12v and 12.8A at 14v.

I wouldn't load it much more with shunting than what it already is...especially considering the terrible ventilation mounted under the seat.

Title: Re: Tail light wattage?
Post by Boogie_with_Stu on 06/22/15 at 19:56:33

I'm planning the exact same thing you're doing. Are you at all concerned about heat with the rectifier? The seat seems to have an molded airflow channel specifically for the rectifier to dissipate heat from the stock location.

Also, when my rectifier recently went bad it produced an enormous amount of heat and after closer inspection I noticed that it had completely melted some nylon strings from my bags that were tucked under the seat. If your rectifier goes out and it's sitting on, or close to other wiring I think it could possibly melt the casings.

I removed my saddlebag yoke and replaced with two straps to avoid moving the regulator/rectifier. I would really like to put the yoke back on. Is moving the r/r forward safe? If it is then I sure would like to see a pic of your relocation.

chzeckmate...I'm an electronic engineer by trade but I have forgotten anything I learned about closed 12 volt systems. The principles however, remain the same: Power (watts) is equal to the Amperage X the Voltage of the circuit. Even without knowing the exact resistance of the entire circuit, or the wattage rating of the rectifier/regulator...we can still come up with some nominal values.

I find it disturbing that your old Rectifier go so hot that it melted plastic. Normally a unit like that will fail OPEN. It is possible in your case, the alternator output (roughly 100 volts I think) was allowed to go straight to ground through the damaged rectifier/regulator. That would certainly turn the heat sink into a heater in a hurry. Not good.

The area just behind the air intake manifold does indeed have a lot of crap in the way. That is the area where all of the bikes wiring seems to meet up. Moving all of those wires and plugs/connectors out of the way isnt really possible. After reading your story, I started looking for alternative locations.

I have read somewhere that some Savage owners have relocated the R/R to the airbox. They bolt it to the plastic door/cover that covers the filter. Although I have a photo of a regulator set up like that, I have no clue how they did it. MY R/R is way to big and doesnt even fit inside that little plastic cover. The footprint is too large and the height of it makes it stick out close to an inch. Maybe I have an aftermarket R/R? Also, just stuffing the unit into the airbox in front of the air filter doesnt sound like a very good idea.

If I leave it where it is...bolted to the fender right behind the air intake, I suppose I could wrap all of the wiring that is nearby with heat resistant Fiberglas tape. It is rated at over 900 degrees F.

Another possible location would be to bolt it to the front side of the chrome battery box(under the carb). It actually doesnt look too bad in that location, although it does cover up a bit of the chrome. Of course, getting rid of the airbox altogether and going with a straight RYCA cone filter would free up tons of room....but I am not ready to go that route yet.

I'll update this as the week goes on...I'll be working on the bike all week. Anything that looks promising, I'll post pics.

Title: Re: Tail light wattage?
Post by chzeckmate on 06/22/15 at 20:33:18

Great! I'm looking forward to seeing your progress. I've seen the r/r mounted on top of the battery box on the right side (brake lever side) of the air intake hose. Blue Collar Bobbers does it like that. I don't like the way that looks though. I've been thinking about the airbox delete but I'd rather not if I don't have to.

Here's the BCB solution https://youtu.be/XsS7hNN4SQo?t=6m28s

Title: Re: Tail light wattage?
Post by chzeckmate on 06/27/15 at 21:15:38

I thought I'd revisit this just in case you're still working on your project or if anyone wants the info. This is from the LS650 manual

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag28/justin_fisher2/taillight_zps5yqo8jjs.png (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/justin_fisher2/media/taillight_zps5yqo8jjs.png.html)

Title: Re: Tail light wattage?
Post by Boogie_with_Stu on 06/30/15 at 22:49:40

Thanks chzeckmate...copied and pasted into my 'things to know" Savage folder :D

I'm having "issues" :-/

Currently I have the bike partially torn down as I am trying to do 5 things at once. The seat mod caused me to need to move the regulator, the new saddlebags (which are just flat out gorgeous) caused me to need to re-locate the rear turn signals so I am fabbing a mount for that and extending the wiring, I am adding 2 small bullet running lights (red, LEDs, 3 watts each) to the rear fender just behind the chrome pillion handles, I have the tank off, the battery box out and side covers off.

My issue is that I am having trouble getting past the "it's MY darn bike and I can do whatever I want to it...including drill holes!" mindset. It's not that the bike is, or ever will be, a showpiece. It was cheap to begin with do it's not like I am "ruining" a $12,000 Harley. I guess I am just trying to make sure I "do no harm" like drill holes in the wrong place, pinch wiring, change airflow, bla bla bla. The bike has been in this condition for 5 days now. THREE of those days, we had T storms that were pretty nasty at times, so outdoor work wasnt an option.

So, I did what any red-blooded American motorcycle enthusiast would do. I bought another bike to play with while I work ever so slooooooooowly on the Savage.

Saw this bike on GL fo $1,400. Called the lady and she told me it had sold.
She called me back 3 days later and said the sale had fallen through, she was moving and the bike HAD to be gone that day. I got it for $800.

2007 Honda Nighthawk 250 with under 5,000 miles. Drove it home yesterday and it rides perfectly. New tires, center stand (aftermarket, still in the box), new battery and all maintenance done locally by Team Powersports in Garner NC. Bike is fun to drive and will serve as my MSC training bike.

Title: Re: Tail light wattage?
Post by Boogie_with_Stu on 06/30/15 at 22:50:24

I'm HOPING you guys wont disown me!

Title: Re: Tail light wattage?
Post by chzeckmate on 07/01/15 at 00:00:50

That's a pretty good deal you got there. I'm looking for something like that for my daughter. She'll be old enough for her first bike in four months. Maybe you'll decide to sell it after you get the Suzuki fixed. Anyway, keep us updated.

Title: Re: Tail light wattage?
Post by Dave on 07/01/15 at 02:49:48

5C515159575B1349574A56134D4A4B3E0 wrote:

I'm HOPING you guys wont disown me!

Naaah! Many of us stray in times of no running bike, and we all need something to ride when we are running to get parts for the Savage. I bought a 250 Ninja with a blown engine last year, and it is a blast to ride. I am sure many folks look at is and figure I must be a beginning rider - but the darn thing runs and rides great....it can run faster down the superslab than the Savage and gets 70+ mpg! It is also the bike I ride when there is a chance of rain, as I really don't care if it gets wet or dirty.

Title: Re: Tail light wattage?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/01/15 at 05:42:46

Bike is fun to drive.

Not exactly a full ride report. Certainly a good price . I know enough about the Ninja,,, if I was still a rider, ohhh yeah, Git me onna them. Its a little twin,
Howzabout a bit of a write up on the Honda?
And, BTW, you'll notive FSO members. Once a member, always a member, till you decide to not come back.Unless we dont get a good write-up,then we take a secret vote, thru PMs, bwahahaha,,,, Yeah, scary,

Vers, how do you take a pic, then add arrows and labels?
Ohh, never mind, im not doin it, just, thats cool.

Title: Re: Tail light wattage?
Post by Art Webb on 07/01/15 at 08:01:50

I am so jealous
I've wanted a Nighthawk for AGES, but when I see one, it's either overpriced, or I'm too broke

Title: Re: Tail light wattage?
Post by Boogie_with_Stu on 07/01/15 at 20:15:02

Just got back from a 10PM "gee, I'm bored and it's nice and cool out" ride on the Nighthawk 8-)

First impressions:
I'm almost 5' 11" tall and 190 lbs and I "sit" better on the Hawk than I do on the Savage. The forward controls will fix that eventually.

It isnt much smaller than the savage...just standing back and looking at the side by side, but it is a LOT lighter. Tires are thinner and smaller. It feels smaller in ways like..the handlebars and grips. Definitely going to go for a larger diameter grip for my big monkey paws.

It rides a bit like an enduro or dirt bike with street tires on it. Extremely nimble and handles like a bicycle at low speeds. It's no wonder a lot of schools use these for MSC training. I could do cones slower than a walking pace without putting my feet down. Really, a 14 yr old could easily and safely ride this bike.

5 speed tranny and shifts very clean. Chain drive is super smooth. Gets to 45-50 in a hurry...after that, it's a bit more work. Wide open in 5th she does 70 on a flat road. Hunch over the tank and pull your knees in, shell get to 75-76 mph. You can lock the throttle wide open and drive like that for hours at a time...the motor seems happy as a clam. I drove a 5 mile stretch of twisting country road last night in 5th at full throttle and never had to throttle down. She leans really easily and the tires bite very nicely for such a light bike.

The bike never sounds like it is "working". The little twin just hums along. Jumping on the throttle in 4th gear doesnt do much. Passing a cager at 35 is easy...at 55? It takes a bit of forethought and planning.

All in all the bike is completely pleasant to drive. It will not challenge anyone with it's power or speed, but I find that driving a slow bike fast...is more fun than driving a fast bike slow :) It will never be competition for the Savage, but it is doing exactly what I bought it for. Just jump on, no choke or warm up, and go. Comfortable enough to drive around town or even for 1-2 hour drive's...as long as you arent on the freeway. Seat and sitting position are very much like the standard bikes of old...the Kawi 350, honda CB series, etc.

I've been on a rebel and to me...the Hawk is much more comfortable and stable platform. Cant say anything about the Nighthawk 450 or 750 models, but I am curious as to whether or not they have the same comfortable feel.

That better J_o_G?

Title: Re: Tail light wattage?
Post by Art Webb on 07/02/15 at 21:36:12

IMO they would, I have always found standards more comfortable than cruisers, or any other type of bike, for that matter, aside from maybe a tourer (most of which are standards with a lot of tupperware tacked on, or were, at first)
A standard will never beat a sportbike in the twisties, but it'll out sport most non sport bikes
It won't tour as well as a dresser, but it'll out tour most non tourers, and it'll cruise, too
heck, I used to take mine 'soft roading'

I love standards, I wish they were still the most common bike