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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Islamification of Europe? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1433422412 Message started by HovisPresley on 06/04/15 at 05:53:32 |
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Title: Islamification of Europe? Post by HovisPresley on 06/04/15 at 05:53:32 I just read the link about Governments' strategies as posted by oldNslow (Reply 57, 'Waco biker morons' thread) A blogger called Bojidar Marinov, who grew up in a totalitarian state. I agree with everything he said, to the extent that I read some more of his blogs. So when I found this, I thought I'd share it: http://bojidarmarinov.com/blog/why-is-islam-taking-over-europe-or-is-it/ |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/04/15 at 10:10:35 Okay, interesting, now, what you just did was tossed out reason why people should Stop and ask themselves if they really know What Everybody KNOWS is going on. The PERCEPTion that Muslims are taking over, their women perpetually pregnant and all having twins or triplets, all born with rifles,grenades and suicide vests, gee, maybe the media is forming our beliefs? Work group against group, divide, Call me a cynic , I trust no main stream media, at all, and the alleged Independent, I believe that they are Trying to get at the truth, but, While we can't know what's IN aa bill till we pass it and trade deals are secrets,and every crooked deal just gets dropped in a Classified National Security folder and whistleblowers are forced into exile instead of politicians into prison, Because Not Enough People get it Until the number of people who understand that there IS NO VOICE of the People being heard in DC changes drastically,,, it's just gonna get worse. Not seeing is surely getting harder. I hope the post I put so much time in was read. |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by old.indian on 06/04/15 at 10:39:10 415E585F42457444744C5E52192B0 wrote:
Replace "Muslims" with "Mexicans" and this is the same statement I was hearing 5 - 6 years ago.......... ::) Only then it was the "Mexicans" taking over the US... "Vote for / contribute to ME and I'll protect you from the evil (group / religion de jure ).." :o |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by WebsterMark on 06/04/15 at 11:21:06 Small minorities of a few percent of the population, without clear ideology and leadership, can’t be a serious threat to any civilization; The article goes on to exclaim: “All this because of 3% of the population” Partisanship can blind those predisposed to ideology to the point they completely miss the obvious, especially when it comes to numbers & percentages. Percentages can be tricky things when applied to very large numbers. It’s easy to disregard them because they seem so tiny, so insignificant. 3% of the US population is gay, but that’s 9,300,000 people. Given all the social uproar over gay marriage and even the recent hilarious magazine cover of Mr. Caitlyn Jenner and all the debate over that, this little 3% of the population wields a mighty big hammer over US society. Remember the whole 99% occupy wall street fiasco and their objections to only 1%. How much wealth does 1% of the population hold? Think 1% is no big deal? In my field of filtration, a Hepa filter captures 99.97% of all particles .3 micron and above. Sounds fantastic doesn’t it! Hold your horses….. There are as many as 100 million particles per cubic meter of air almost all of which are submicron. (when you see dust shimmering in the sunlight coming through a window, know that for every particle you see, there are hundreds of thousands right next to it that you can’t see) Filtering out 99.97% means about 30,000 particles get past…. A typical filter may see 28 cubic meters per minute. That’s 840,000 particles passing through per minute, 50,400,000 per hour, 1,209,600,000 a day… If there’s nothing in the air but normal dirt and dust… not that big a deal to you and me. We breathe this in all day long. (FYI: your furnace filter captures about .01% of dirt in the air at best) It’s not a big deal ......unless you’re in an operating room or making computer chips…. Then it makes a big difference. That tiny % that slips by can be fatal. Biological research labs, US embassies, etc…. laugh at 99.97% filters. They are looking at 99.99997% So the comparison the writer and other Islamic fascist apologist fail to make is that a very small percentage can have a huge impact if it only takes a few to be disastrous. The articles says France has 2 million Muslims. From world events, it’s pretty clear that not all Muslims are terrorist, but almost all terrorist are Muslims. So what if 99.97% of that 2 million are NOT prone to violence. Guess what; that leaves 600 who are. Look at what a couple French terrorist did to a newspaper and free speech. Look what 19 terrorist did with airplanes. Look what a few did in London. Look what 1 did in Ft. Hood Texas. The article also completely ignores the future. Demographics is about tomorrow, not today. What % of school age children in Europe are Muslim today compared to what it was last year, the year before. What will the % be next year or the year after? Pretty soon, that tiny % is a larger % and all of a sudden, you’re looking at elections changing course because of the demographics of the electorate. and you're right old indian, we heard this about the Mexican immigrants in the US, but here's a question: Do you honestly think Mexican immigration has not impacted the US in anyway? (and Mexicans are not strapping bombs to children and sending them into Pizza parlors...) Short answer: the writer of this article is a fool. |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by oldNslow on 06/04/15 at 11:25:29 The money quote from Mr Marinov's essay: Quote:
The percentage of Muslims in the overall population in any particular country is not really important. What is undeniable is the trouble they are causing regardless of how insignificant the numbers seem to be. I strongly disagree with Mr. Marinov's assertion here: Quote:
Radical Islam does have a clear ideology, and I think it would be a mistake to underestimate its leadership. Only a very small minority, a lot of historians agree that it was something like 3% of the colonial population, instigated and wholeheartedly supported the American Revolution. I don't think that England underestimated that threat because the percentage of rebels at the beginning of the conflict was small. The King and Parliament understood perfectly well what was at stake. I'm not convinced that that is the case today - either in Europe or the US. |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by Art Webb on 06/04/15 at 12:15:44 Quote "Only a very small minority, a lot of historians agree that it was something like 3% of the colonial population, instigated and wholeheartedly supported the American Revolution. I don't think that England underestimated that threat because the percentage of rebels at the beginning of the conflict was small. The King and Parliament understood perfectly well what was at stake. I'm not convinced that that is the case today - either in Europe or the US." I agree with this Quote (from our POTUS) "ISIS is the JV team" That's a hell of a JV team, Mr President |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by oldNslow on 06/04/15 at 12:17:15 WebsterMark wrote: Quote:
I don't think so. I take issue with some of the reasoning he used to get to essay's conclusion - the paragraph I quoted in my last post - but, in spite of how he got there, his conclusion is substantially correct. He admits that Radical Islam is indeed a threat, but then goes on to say that the threat is because we in the west have become chicken-sh*ts, not because Islam is inherently dangerous to western countries. I think he's right on the first point; wrong on the second;that doesn't make him a fool. At least he recognizes the basic problem. |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by WebsterMark on 06/04/15 at 12:27:25 For now, keep in mind, every time you watch news of the supposed “Muslim takeover” of Europe, that there is no such takeover; the numbers and the facts do not support such analysis. Islam is not Europe’s problem; it is only a symptom of the real problem I kinda see what you're saying but old, but I don't see where he says Islam is a threat. In fact, in the quote above he says "the numbers and facts do not support" when in fact they do. I'd have to read a few more articles this guy wrote to understand his overall view of the world. He comments: The large Muslim community is not safe from the advance of Christianity: in France, an estimated 15,000 Muslims convert to Christianity every year. That comment could be taken two very different ways and I'd like to find out exactly how he meant it. |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by oldNslow on 06/04/15 at 13:01:03 Quote:
I just reread the essay and you're right. He doesn't. I guess I was interpreting the overall tone of of the last couple of paragraphs in the light of my own strong feelings on the subject, and putting words in the guys mouth that he didn't actually say. Quote:
-Marinov I still think he actually gets it though. In a lot of cases the symptom is the disease. |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by WebsterMark on 06/04/15 at 13:24:55 Expand on that, because I'm not sure I get it. Which came first: institutional racism created the plight of Black Americans today actions of Black American's create institutional racism |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by oldNslow on 06/04/15 at 14:08:52 Quote:
-Marinov With that sentence Marinov is acknowledging that there is a problem. And since the essay is about Islam and whether or not it is "taking over" Europe, he is acknowledging that the problem has something to do with Islam. Where I think he goes astray is by blaming the present Europeans and their "failure of nerve" for the problem, rather than blaming it on Radical Muslim ideology, and the actual perpetrators of things like the Massacre at the Magazine offices in France. I think he's right to some extent about the "failure of nerve" theory though. Government policy in European countries, and here in the US, seems to be "Lets not antagonize these people and maybe they will leave us alone, along with continually preaching the litany that most Muslims don't do this stuff. The implication being that when such acts of violence occur they are aberrations. They are not. And "failure of nerve" is certainly not the whole story. This stuff would happen even without the appeasement. The ideology that drives it is not really concerned with that. In the case of deliberate terrorist acts directed a civilians the "symptoms" , the acts themselves, and the "disease", the ideology that instigates them, are one and the same. The question about institutional racism is an entirely different subject and doesn't really apply to the point I was trying to make. |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by WebsterMark on 06/05/15 at 07:05:41 I think he's right to some extent about the "failure of nerve" theory though. Government policy in European countries, and here in the US, seems to be "Lets not antagonize these people and maybe they will leave us alone, along with continually preaching the litany that most Muslims don't do this stuff Having lived in the getto as a youngster, being 15 miles from Ferguson now and living in one of the murder capitals of the US (St. Louis). I think if you read what you said above and switch a few words around, doesn't it apply to the US and black thugs now? |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by HovisPresley on 06/05/15 at 07:16:53 Mark, why are you bringing 'blacks' into this? BTW, were you ever a fan of Muhammad Ali? ;D |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/05/15 at 07:23:58 That's certainly a perception that would be hard to dismiss without study. Gotta remember that the riots were supported, inspired by people someone was Paying to BE there. Can't let go of that little detail. |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by Art Webb on 06/05/15 at 08:24:24 That's true JOG It's also true that there is an anti white mindset in some of the black population in those areas I was raised in the projects, too, and heard more than a few parents selling their kids the 'you can't make it because whitey' and 'the law is for them white folks' It's not helpful, and it's sad when you see a friend takes that to heart That's a different thread though Ali was the greatest....self promoter Marciano was a better fighter though ;) |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/05/15 at 08:30:20 That's just sad. |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by WebsterMark on 06/05/15 at 08:37:30 302F292E33340535053D2F23685A0 wrote:
The riots were not INSPIRED by people paying, they were inspired by grass roots people. However, yes, groups did fund supplies and people to organize, but let's not get distracted. I'm bringing blacks into this because its a topic that interest me, it's revenant to this and I'm unfortunately intimately familiar with the situation on the ground. Who wasn't a fan of Ali? side note: Ali lost a fight to Leon Spinks. I went to the same school as the Spinks brothers. I got my a$$ kicked in 3rd grade by a big kid named Leon who was in 5th grade and who'd be held back a year or two. I like to think it was Leon Spinks because hey, if Ali lost to the guy, I don't feel so bad getting my a$$ kicked by the same guy who beat Ali..... |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by HovisPresley on 06/05/15 at 09:55:39 Quote WM; "I'm bringing blacks into this because its a topic that interest me, it's revenant(sic) to this and I'm unfortunately intimately familiar with the situation on the ground." It's relevant to the 'Islamification of Europe'? |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by pgambr on 06/05/15 at 14:37:41 This gentleman makes our news every now and then. What do they think of Geert Wilders on the other side of the pond? Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/05/15 at 15:25:53 1D3A233C260527302639302C550 wrote:
I don't wanna see this question go unanswered. I THINK I can kinda see what WM is about,but don't wanna speak for him. And,maybe im wrong. Hafta wait till he answers. |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by HovisPresley on 06/05/15 at 15:38:10 Quote Justin; "Hafta wait till he answers." .............................................................. I thought he left ;D |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by WebsterMark on 06/06/15 at 04:40:10 As I sais before, if you read old&slow's long post above, substitute a few words, I think it's close to the situation in America's inner cities today. Government and community leaders pussyfoot around and pass a few laws build a few more community centers etc...(now the theme is blame the cops) but they are cowards, afraid to confront the real heart of the issue in black America today. That's what the writer of the original article referred to and what old was commenting on as the part he agreed with. In fact, it's no coincidence that these inner city riots and protest always have a subsection trying to link this with the "Palestinian" cause. There's a lot in common between Palestinians and what I'll call the Blacklivesmatter crowd. |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by HovisPresley on 06/06/15 at 04:47:46 And what do you know of Palestine? |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by raydawg on 06/06/15 at 07:32:29 Webby, me thinks, you thinks, too much.... about what you thinks. Let me try to plain it dis ways din. ( I blackified myself ) You hold your ideas dearly, as I believe we all do. They ( ideas/beliefs) are made up through indoctrination. We travel through our lives daily with those teachings "interpreting" what is all about us. Our thoughts/thinking is biased and prejudiced, our actions to the things around us, tainted. The trick is to realize that, and try to view things from a different perspective, not easy, as we have to be willing to admit to our inner self the possibility of error, which can make us feel inferior, etc. Let me give you a personal example of how I was able to use this technique on myself, maybe this will help explain my point. I had a drinking problem for many years. As so often accompanied with drinking, the mind builds a defense around our activity. I won't extend the explanation into the why's and how's, as it is not really relevant to the matter at hand. I was able to abstain from drinking with much help. Again, I don't need to elaborate on this either. With sobriety my "way of life" now, that would be my thinking and believing, I felt empowered over the situations that use to "cause" me to drink. Also, I felt more wiser ( I hesitate using this word, for it does not actively describe my exact thoughts ) over those who struggle with alcohol. I could tell them from firsthand knowledge of their plight, and where it will lead them, if they don't heed my advice ( solicited & casual ). Well for many years, and still does, my wife would often ask me if I mind that she has a drink..... My first thought, and I have used it verbally, was to reply, "I have been sober well over a decade, why should I mind." As you can see I acted out of defense, as I perceived her question was based upon her "perception" that I was weak, that I could be tempted by the actions of others, to once again drink and visit with all its assorted baggage....again. Not until I looked differently at the question, did I see her motivation based on her perception, that showed how wrongly I was off in thinking I heard what I thought I had heard ( what did I just say? ). Her question was based in love and caring for me, not a challenge to my "wiser" I got booze licked mentality that I credit myself with. It is hard for her to see/understand my bravado at having overcome drink, as she saw too many years ( prejudiced ) of its destruction on us., that is her indoctrination.... If I am to navigate life in a peaceful manner now, I have to try and understand what the other person is saying, NOT, what I thought I heard, and hopefully, I can reply and act, accordingly. Peace is the goal of all mankind, of that I am certain, it only makes sense.... We just need to recognize it ;D |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/06/15 at 09:11:09 447671606776615E726178130 wrote:
I'm not able to articulate the WHY, I just feel a similarity, not about Palestine, but what WM said, I kinda get it.. As to O AND SLOW, ,I read that sentence Symptom,,disease, But I did Get the meaning, lack of nerve,, Appease, Weve seen appease th bully.. It nevworks. If youre appeasing you childre, they dont respect you. |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by WebsterMark on 06/06/15 at 16:12:53 I'm not following you completely Raydawg..... But who are you to assume I've not traveled my own path (not the same as yours) but my own. In reality, you are essentially saying you are right and I am wrong because you think you have developed an ability to see things that I cannot. Could I not type the exact same thing towards you? I comment on things I read up on (from multiple sources) or those I've experienced directly. I've lived in the getto, I deal with a wide variety of people around the world. I think I have a very broad perspective, and I think I can justify the comments I made. That's gonna have to wait as I'm heading out the door. |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/06/15 at 17:00:48 Web said, I comment on things I read up on (from multiple sources) If I want to I can find plenty of sources pumping the same flavor of crap. Unless I look for sources of a different recipe, ,,, or those I've experienced directly. I've been watching people walk away from the same moment and each have vastly different understanding. I'm pretty sure that you have been alive and seen many of the things I talk about,yet your world view seems to often be what I would expect from someone who simply hadn't seen them. Sometimes, you come very close to seeing.. I hope the dots line up for you. I've lived in the getto, I deal with a wide variety of people around the world. Sounds like you worked hard and improved your position, but unless you look for evidence that contradicts your beliefs, your ideas probably won't change a lot. I think I have a very broad perspective, and I think I can justify the comments I made. I don't know anyone who doesn't say that. |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by raydawg on 06/06/15 at 17:21:50 023037262130271834273E550 wrote:
No, I am not saying I am right and you wrong. What I was hoping to show was how I reacted to what my wife said in a manner that pizzed me off. I wanted to say, WTF, when are you going to give me credit for my sobriety and quit worrying over something that ain't real anymore. You always going to hold my past in front of me,.....yada, yada, yada. By me seeing her remark that way killed my natural buzz and made me an arse to be around. She didn't intend her remarks to NAG me,it was out of genuine concern she said it, yet, well, I hope you can see my point now. If I extend my view of things using my closely held beliefs, I can readily misinterpret it, and if that leads to me getting mad, upset, blaming, etc, it robs me of the real joy around me. You gotta understand the media outlets, academia, religions, politicians, medical, etc, all need followers for them to be successful, they will do anything, for their own survival. You give them too much of yourself, you have sold yourself as their slave.... I think Bot is wise when he gives this board a rest, he recognizes it is robbing him of something, his peace and joy in the present, all because of differing views and beliefs ( interpretations of indoctrination ) his included ;D Hope that clarifies it a little bit better. |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by Serowbot on 06/06/15 at 18:29:50 Mr. Bot Takes a Vacation... :-?... Otherwise...;D... http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/serowbot/gif/3663.gif |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by WebsterMark on 06/07/15 at 07:11:29 If I extend my view of things using my closely held beliefs, I can readily misinterpret it, and if that leads to me getting mad, upset, blaming, etc, it robs me of the real joy around me. You gotta understand the media outlets, academia, religions, politicians, medical, etc, all need followers for them to be successful, they will do anything, for their own survival. You give them too much of yourself, you have sold yourself as their slave.... okay, I get your point, but..... if you think what you typed above describes me, you are mistaken. Nothing robs me of joy and I'm no one's salve. I fully understand the media is a business and all that goes with that. Don't worry about me, I don't lose sleep over any of this. |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by raydawg on 06/07/15 at 07:44:13 Thanks webby, you just proved my point better than I could about communication and how often it goes awry. I never laid the charge upon you that you might be a salve to anyone........ Nor, was I trying to butter you up, either ;D |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by Serowbot on 06/07/15 at 09:02:57 Okay,.. I get it now... I was looking for some metaphorical, analogical, deep, meaning behind man being a salve... like, Webby is the Mother Teresa of race relations or something... Forehead Slap... Dohhhhhh!... ...I get it now... ;D... |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by raydawg on 06/07/15 at 09:11:44 A lil' noggin knock'n can do wonders if its well placed :D |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by WebsterMark on 06/07/15 at 10:03:06 Funny. |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/07/15 at 12:29:21 A good salve is supposed to bring comfort,relief,, I would never accuse Web of such and strongly suspect that a ( dare I? ) liberal application would create a rash, and that is a (I must ) conservative estimate of the potential results of a single application. |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by HovisPresley on 06/07/15 at 16:43:05 746B6D6A7770417141796B672C1E0 wrote:
;D ;D ;D A true wordsmith, thou art ;) |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by pgambr on 06/07/15 at 16:45:38 Hovis: Perhaps the good people of the UK would be willing to help Italy with their migration problem. They had 6K make it across the Met in dinghies this weekend which brings this year's total to 50K. http://news.yahoo.com/backlash-grows-italy-migrant-arrivals-top-50-000-154129180.html Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/07/15 at 16:47:30 Thanks, not bad for a high school drop out,ehh? Got the GED (equivalent of a diploma) in the Air Force. |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by WebsterMark on 06/07/15 at 18:34:20 66797F7865625363536B79753E0C0 wrote:
That's awesome JOG, u may have missed your calling. |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/07/15 at 19:12:51 I'm glad you are able to appreciate the art rather than be offended. I typed out a long one once, on another forum. It got good reviews. I'm an opportunistic type and that was too good to pass up. |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by HovisPresley on 06/08/15 at 04:24:10 7F686E626D7D0F0 wrote:
.............................................................................. The good people of the UK have their navy helping those 'boat people' as your link described: "British navy ship HMS Bulwark rescued more than 1,000 migrants Sunday from boats in waters between Italy and Libya." PS. It has to be remembered that Italy has a population density of 522/sq.mile, England has over twice that, at 1054/sq.mile. .......................................................... My linguistic salve has to be this; http://i59.tinypic.com/5wz4gz.jpg Definitions that set the standard for clarity |
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Title: Re: Islamification of Europe? Post by WebsterMark on 06/08/15 at 05:03:19 3E2127203D3A0B3B0B33212D66540 wrote:
Hey, I'm a fan of good humor and you nailed it. Raydawg wanted more smiles, just not sure he figured it would be as easy as a typo, but 220 or 221, whatever it takes. |
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