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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> dies in 5th /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1432509501 Message started by Boogieman on 05/24/15 at 16:18:21 |
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Title: dies in 5th Post by Boogieman on 05/24/15 at 16:18:21 Bikes had been in pieces for over a year. i got a new 3.1gal peanut tank, new petcock (now...it's one of them $20 chrome valves that they use on big harley's and stuff that sucks way more fuel), and thats it. everything else just went right back on, and it starts up and runs like a raped ape unless you're in fifth and then it starves for gas and starts to cut out and die when im hauling balls. i can be jamming in 4th for a f*cking hour and nothing! soon as i switch to fifth it almost immediately starts dying. I tried cracking the gas cap thinking it was vapor lock or something...nope. and no i dont know sizes or diameters of anything. it shouldnt matter anyway. So...whatcha guys thinking? |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/24/15 at 16:35:39 Have you tried just cruising, getting into fifth and not trying to accelerate, but just roll along, say forty mph? Not suggesting that you lug it, if there's a easy downhill spot, just to see what it does. You got a fuel filter? I can't imagine it having enough fuel flow to run hot for an extended period in fourth, but won't cruise easy in fifth... I'm baffled,,, |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by Boogieman on 05/24/15 at 17:00:56 I have to switch to 4th gear to get it to stop. I had been jamming balls out in 5th gear for like 20 miles before it started happening and now it happens all the time in 5th. its starving for gas. but I don't know what that has to do with 5th gear because unless there's something I'm missing it shouldn't matter. Actually...if I switch it up to 5th and it starts happening and I let it happen for a bit and switch to 4th still happens and I may have to even switched on the 3rd or let off the throttle for a while, like the bowl has to fill up... its starving for gas. filter on the petcocks is all I ever use. a friend told me to take that one off and put in an inline and it would restrict the fuel less but I don't see how this is connected to 5th gear. the last time I had a problem like this it was because the Jets in the carburetor were all switched around but I haven't touched those |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by verslagen1 on 05/24/15 at 17:06:36 Take off your petcock and check for debris inside. your new2u tank maybe dropping rust. |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by Boogieman on 05/24/15 at 17:45:04 im gonna open the carb up and check the jets too cuz it's possible i fiddled with it on my down time and accidentally switched the air jets or something. i seriously doubt rust or debris is the culprit but i'll clean the whole shabang out tomorrow. Does 5th gear at lower rpm's draw more fuel that higher rpm's in 4th? |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/24/15 at 18:04:15 If you pop the fuel line offa the carb and see what the flow looks like,that might be a clue. Draining the bowl into a clear container might be a clue. You could ride till it starts to act up, shut off the petcock and hit the kill, stop and drain the bowl. If it's just a thimble full, well, there you go. Does fifth at low rpm draw more fuel than fourth at rippin it RPM? Maximum MPG is achieved at the lowest speed high gear can be used at, Lugging is not okay. If you don't have good flow then I'd hafta see the filter on the petcock. Did it do this on the first ride? |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by Serowbot on 05/24/15 at 18:55:29 Rpm drop going to 5th may drop vacuum too low to draw enough fuel...(not from the tank, but from the floatbowl)... Do you have enough backpressure in your filter and pipes?... Too open and all your torque is at the top of the rpm's... a Revzilla... 'Ceptin' our big thumper rev's out at 6500... |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by Boogieman on 05/24/15 at 18:56:06 ok. i have two questions that are jst dying for answers. Does 5th in lower rpm draw more fuel or air than 4th at high rpm? the reason I'm so adamant about like a yes or no answer to this question is it kind of leads me into answering what it dying in 5th gear has anything to do with it. cuz it only does it in 5th but I just can't see a connection. Does a petcock off an engine that's twice as big as mine allow less fuel draw/volume that what is required by our engine? Argg...i'll dig in 2mrrw..maybe curse a bit. |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by Boogieman on 05/24/15 at 18:58:36 wait...serowbot...ur making sense but my phone is dead |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by Serowbot on 05/24/15 at 19:08:41 Is yer' phone in 5th gear too?... ;D... |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/24/15 at 19:27:59 I dunno hoot about the way the bike works, but all my cars had the highest intake manifold vacuum at idle. Vacuum drops as the carb opens. Maybe the bike is different, |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by Serowbot on 05/24/15 at 20:02:22 716E686F72754474447C6E62291B0 wrote:
No,.. it's same... but, if the higher gear drops you out of the torqueband, you will have to open the throttle to try to gain speed... and opening the throttle will drop the vacuum... ...(same as if you go 30mph in 5th gear, and wick open the throttle... it'll chuf and stumble, and maybe die... vacuum drops to nuttin' and can't pull fuel.)... That's my theory, an' I'm stickin' to it... ...'till Dave or Versy tell me I'm a dope... ;D... |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by botticelli on 05/24/15 at 20:06:57 I with serowbot on this one, a good debris tank check and petcock functionality test cant hurt either. |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by Serowbot on 05/24/15 at 20:09:04 39342F2F32383E3737325B0 wrote:
I don't think tank debris or petcock flow would change with the gear selected... Boogie has a pingle pet, I think... they are solid reliable... That said,.. cleaning never hurts... 'cept yer' elbows... :P... |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by verslagen1 on 05/24/15 at 20:45:35 Confession time... I bought a Chinese petcock, looked good, the outlet was 8mm, it had a long neck, it was cheap. before I could install it (already had a genuine yami on the daily) so there it sat til the dog found it and ate all the plastic off it... ie them little filter gizmos. and the o-ring too, hoped it snapped when it came out. >:( So in getting ready for the beast, I swapped engines in the 88 to the 96. The 96 needed rings still from the oil tests. (don't change oils more than once if you can help it). So a few weeks later I started getting this hitch in the getalong up my favorite WFO hill :-? Yep them little petcock holes were stuffed full of rust chips. So... check the FN petcock. OK, so... low vacuum phen nom men na (doot doo de doo doot) that's why you got a needle valve. of course itsa crap shoot on the compromise. |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/24/15 at 21:45:19 3422352830252833470 wrote:
No,.. it's same... but, if the higher gear drops you out of the torqueband, you will have to open the throttle to try to gain speed... and opening the throttle will drop the vacuum... ...(same as if you go 30mph in 5th gear, and wick open the throttle... it'll chuf and stumble, and maybe die... vacuum drops to nuttin' and can't pull fuel.)... That's my theory, an' I'm stickin' to it... ...'till Dave or Versy tell me I'm a dope... ;D...[/quote] Mmkay, you're one of the carb gurus, not me. The stuff I know, I'll plant my feet and hold my ground I don't have the expertise on the carb. I thought you could twist on the handle and until the vacuum raised the slide, the vacuum didn't drop. But, I don't really care, just as long as this guy gets fixed up. His symptoms? I'm wanting more information. Fire up,hit the road. How long before trouble? How long before it will start? I'm really curious about fuel flow, just into a jug. I would drain the bowl and see if it's dirty. |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by Boogieman on 05/25/15 at 08:16:11 lol ya'll are rad. I will do all ya'll have suggested and report back. At that time i shud have all needed info if it's not cured. |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by Gary_in_NJ on 05/25/15 at 12:21:13 This may have been mentioned (I blasted through the thread quickly) but the problem can be the float height. When you have the carb apart check the height as well as the distance of the full swing. |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/25/15 at 17:00:52 clear tubing, any tubing, long as it fits the nipple on the carb bowl. Loosen drain screw, shove tubing on, the fuel level in the bowl will be obvious. |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by Kris01 on 05/25/15 at 19:23:40 Don't forget to raise the open end of the tube above the carb! ;D |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by Steve H on 05/26/15 at 03:26:21 Anybody think about the little screen above the float valve? |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by Boogieman on 05/26/15 at 10:47:55 ok. i will post pics later when i have a sweet wifi connect,, im almost outta phone data. There were bits of crap in my tank, stuck to the fuel valve screen, at the very bottom of the bowl (jst lttle specs that didnt come out when i drained it. had to wash em out). my carb was kinda dirty. Main air jet 280 pilot air 45 152.5 main fuel 52.5 pilot I'll have y'all look at the pics b4 i button it up and try again. Dont knw how to measure float heights. also there are few things I'm going to seal up and clamp down so there's no chance of any vacuum loss. |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by Dave on 05/26/15 at 11:08:22 5D505058565A525E513F0 wrote:
Did you remove the seat for the float bowl needle and clean the screen on top of it? |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by Boogieman on 05/26/15 at 14:34:38 no i havent but i will...soon as i find it. |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by Boogieman on 05/26/15 at 17:18:14 im still not convinced rust is the entire prob. Serowbot is onto something. I've never run more than the screen on the fuel valve. the last tank I had was freaking full of rust and I never had a problem with rust. |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by Boogieman on 05/26/15 at 17:21:26 where is the screen on top of the float bowl located. your specific but i guess not specific enough for me haha. nah i'll look for it here in a min |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by verslagen1 on 05/26/15 at 19:53:25 you'll need to remove the float then the valve seat and the screen will come out with it. |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by Dave on 05/27/15 at 05:13:16 Are you holding the float up with your fingers when you took the picture? The float looks like it is not at the proper elevation....I am used to seeing the mounting hinge more parallel with the gasket surface. You need to check the float level (and clean the screen on top of the needle seat). http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1367212825 |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by Boogieman on 06/07/15 at 05:29:46 ok.. i cleaned out the carb nice and good, still starved for gas. was out testing it and all of a sudden it stopped...and thats wheb i realized my gas cap was about to fly off. IT WAS THE STINKING GAS CAP! It's a vented one but seals completely with this tank, or doesn't vent enough, or is broken. One slice of the rubber gasket gives me enough vent...hauls balls! It was a vacuum type thing. Serowbot! I replaced the fuel hose with clear hose and installed a clear inline filter...all kinds off very small debris get caught in there. Dave: Ya im holding the float all the way up. ¿Mounting hinge parallel to gasket surface? that wud mean mine is way off. Ur saying that when i pick tye float all tye way up it shud be parallel with gasket that seals the bowl? |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by Dave on 06/07/15 at 07:14:03 No....when the float is not lifted up....generally the mounting flange is close to parallel with the gasket surface. The float height is measured when the weight of the float is on the needle. |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by Serowbot on 06/07/15 at 09:12:23 I think the key here,.. is it only happens in 5th... A fuel delivery problem would happen in all gears, or even more often in lower gears where you generally run higher rpm's ... :-?... |
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Title: Re: dies in 5th Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/07/15 at 13:33:29 How long after the shift to fifth does it start acting up? I'm sorry if you've answered this stuff. Have you tried running in fourth at as fast a speed as the motor seems comfortable, just short of wide open, maybe up a slight grade, into the wind? Try to make it run outta gas in fourth. |
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