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Message started by 86-Savage on 05/24/15 at 07:12:27

Title: Testing Safety Switches
Post by 86-Savage on 05/24/15 at 07:12:27

Hey everyone,

I am hoping someone can help me out.

I own an 86 Savage and it won't start. I press the starter button and nothing happens. The lights come on and the battery is always on a tender.The other day I had to press the starter button several times to get the starter to fire, went for a ride and parked the bike. I have checked the main fuses, fiddled with the kickstand, opened the kill switch to clean and check contacts. Nada.

How do I check the switches to see if they are faulty?
Any other suggestions much appreciated as well.

Thanks,
Jose

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by Kris01 on 05/24/15 at 07:47:23

Try removing the wires from the switches and shorting them together. If it cranks normally, you've found your culprit.

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by 86-Savage on 05/24/15 at 12:49:37

I am wondering if "shorting" the wires together means connecting them to each other? I read in the help section to use a paper clip but not sure what to connect. Don't want to make a costly mistake. Thanks.

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/24/15 at 14:00:08

Since the clutch switch is so easy to get to, I would start with that.
First, be sure that you are in.neutral . If that switch is not right and the stand is down I don't know if it's gonna turn over.

And yeah, paperclip,opened up,piece cut off, and connect the two wires that plug into the clutch switch.

Could just be the start switch itself. Mine went funky, took it apart, cleaned up, all good.

BUT, there is some small stuff in there and a spring.

I always sweep the floor, and cover the tank with a towel in case I fumble a tool.
I sweep so if something gets away the floor is clean and there isn't a bunch of crud for it to hide behind.

Everyone who has a bike needs a volt meter, available for less than ten bucks at Harbor Freight.
You can test a switch real easy.

Never check Ohms on anything with voltage to it.

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by verslagen1 on 05/24/15 at 14:36:35

The 2 wires on the clutch lever can be touched together (shorted), don't touch them to the handle bar or other frame member.

The kickstand safety is more involved, so another time.

kickstand down, must be in neutral.
kickstand up, can be in gear.
both cases, must pull in clutch to start.

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by 86-Savage on 05/24/15 at 16:01:15

Awesome, thanks for the replies, going to check them now and will report the outcome.

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by 86-Savage on 05/24/15 at 16:50:38

No luck...im going to let the pros have a look before I touch something and end up spending more than the current issue. Thanks very much for the assistance.

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/24/15 at 17:03:03

That's just one of several things. You might wanna slow down,take a breath and work through this. We have seen those professionals destroy a couple of engines just doing an oil change.
Might take some time, but this bunch can probably walk you through this.
You're Gonna be needing tools if you intend to own a bike...
Tools cost less than labor.

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by Kris01 on 05/24/15 at 19:55:46

121C07794B5C4B4D4F2A0 wrote:

im going to let the pros have a look...

NOOOOO! DO NOT DO THIS!

These guys are the pros! They are more likely to fix your problem "long distance" than any mechanic who actually has his hands on your bike!

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by 86-Savage on 05/25/15 at 05:27:45

Ok, back to the drawing board I guess.

I have a volt meter...battery tested 12.47 v so battery is good.

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/26/15 at 04:09:28

Glad you are back in the fight.
Okay, what do you know, just common sense?

You know that the start switch hasta have 12 volts in, and, when pushed, out.. now, prove power to that switch..

An easy to use and handy tool is a test light. Clip to ground, poke and find voltage. Can be done thru insulation, but can also easily get poked into your finger,so,be careful. You may need a wire with clips on each end to be an extension for a troubleshooting tool.

This may not be easy, but YOU will know how to figure out problems and you'll develop a tool collection and save a ton of cash. And one day you'll be talking someone through troubles.

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by 86-Savage on 05/27/15 at 09:26:07

When it comes to electrical diagnosing I am lost. I picked up a test light and alligator clips. I am going to try and figure out the electrical path from battery to the various switches and if they are good I will need to see if the starter motor is pooched.

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by 86-Savage on 05/27/15 at 09:41:20

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/27/15 at 10:15:07

starter motor test is simple, BE SURE YOU ARE IN NEUTRAL, connect cables to the car battery,

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by 86-Savage on 05/27/15 at 10:46:26

What I found with volt meter:

Stop switch in ON - no continuity (fail)
Stop switch in OFF - no continuity

Start switch pressed - low continuity (pass)
Start switch released - no continuity (pass)

Rear brake lever engaged - no continuity (fail)
Switch opened and one wire snapped off from solder

According to repair manual the entire harness needs to be replaced.

I am going to test the clutch and kickstand switches as well since bike is apart and the old gal may be getting brittle wires.

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/27/15 at 11:29:01

Do you have experience with soldering?
If not, it's not hard.
And you can practice on small,cheap stuff, maybe wire from a dead dvd player, heck, a six foot extension cord costs two bucks. You can cut, strip, solder..
I bet there are tons of you tube clips on how to.

Phhhht, wiring harness,, nuh uhh,

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by 86-Savage on 05/27/15 at 12:17:41

Unfortunately up in my area not easy to find parts for my old gal. I ordered a new assembly because individual parts not available from Suzuki for this model year. Rear brake switch corroded. Kill switch parts not available either to rebuild, I tried to clean contacts but no difference. Hopefully this will solve the problem.

I am wondering if the corrosion travels the length of the wire under the sheathing compromising the flow of electricity?

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/27/15 at 13:49:32

If you can see the copper is green going up under the insulation,then yeah, the wire needs attention. I've stripped wires back and unwound them and used the small wire brushes from Harbor Freight ,scraped with xacto knives, whatever,to clean them up. If you put wires pointed at each other and overlap the ends, twist one one way, twist the other the other way,then they are wrapped around each other and in a straight line, so, you can use heat shrink tubing on the joint after you solder it.
Adding wire to a few wires is a bunch easier than putting in a harness.

Before you start buying switches, figure out what you need. You might be ahead to get the whole assembly.
Was it kept outside or did it live near the ocean? Why is the wiring so fragile?

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by 86-Savage on 05/27/15 at 15:55:49

I cut the sheathing back and sure enough corrosion on the wires. I ordered the entire assembly and will put everything back together next week when it arrives.

I have owned this bike for 2 yrs...not sure of the history because I bought it from a dealer. I keep it in my garage.

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by 86-Savage on 06/03/15 at 09:15:45

My Savage is alive after the new harness install. Just wanted to send a huge thanks to those that guided me through this repair. I spent $141 in stead of $500 or more I am sure it would have cost and got to know the electrical system in the process. This forum is AWESOME!

Jose

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/03/15 at 09:20:03

No,dude,if you decided, and have already done it, You are awesome.
Ill bet you Did learn a few things.

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by 86-Savage on 06/03/15 at 19:30:19

I adjusted my valves and will be double checking them tomorrow. I would like to adjust the decompression solenoid because it is at 8mm. I had a look in the repair manual and on here but not exactly sure how to adjust. After the valve adjustment the engine will not fire. Thanks.

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/03/15 at 20:03:04

Put it in high gear and try to roll it.

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by verslagen1 on 06/03/15 at 20:24:02

1B150E704255424446230 wrote:

After the valve adjustment the engine will not fire.

What do you mean?

starter motor stalls?
or turns and turns and turns?

after all... you were talking about the decomp adjustment.

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/03/15 at 21:38:10

Did you have to make a big adjustmen?
How did you get it to TDC?
Sure you are on TDC Compression?
Didn't turn the crank clockwise,did you?

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by 86-Savage on 06/04/15 at 03:59:33

Starter motor turns and turns but does not fire...I have spark.

TDC...I rotated the engine counter clockwise until the intake valves ( ones near the carb) went down and came back up and lined up the timing marks...for some reason after checking the clearance 3 times the valves were too tight each time...less than .003.

I did not adjust the decompression solenoid to speck at TDC...I loosened the 2 nuts on the lever but didn't see how to adjust cable.

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by verslagen1 on 06/04/15 at 07:27:01

323C27596B7C6B6D6F0A0 wrote:

[smiley=thumbsup.gif] only turn the crank in one direction, if you go past, go around again.

Quote:

..for some reason after checking the clearance 3 times the valves were too tight each time...less than .003.

not good, if you pull up on the rocker does the adjustment change?

Quote:

I did not adjust the decompression solenoid to speck at TDC...I loosened the 2 nuts on the lever but didn't see how to adjust cable.

You need to take the tank off to measure the decomp solenoid (8mm I think you said), on the back side of the solenoid is a rubber cap, pull it off and that's where you measure, clymers is completely unclear on the subject.

Or you can adjust by function.
Too tight and it'll take 3 or 4 rev's to start.
Too loose and the starter will stall.
1 or 2 turns is what you're looking for.

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by 86-Savage on 06/04/15 at 11:40:36

Thats where I was going wrong...if I went past the TDC mark I would spin it backwards...finally got the valves set properly.

I've had the tank off for 3 weeks now and measured the decomp exactly as you stated. I decided to leave it alone for now.

I decided to go grab a new spark plug...installed it...attached the fuel tank...BOOM...bike purrs like a champ...went for a test drive and just got back...shut her down a number of times just to make sure and so far so good.

Did a complete overhaul of front brake asembly with new seals/piston/pads/flush/bleed...so far so good as well.

Feels good to be in the saddle again! 8-)

Title: Re: Testing Safety Switches
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/04/15 at 11:57:47

And, when wrenching on things, best to not mess with more than one area at a time. Playing with the valve lash And the decomp at the same time leaves a
Wont Start
problem with more than one potential source.

.
And be aware that the cavity the plug sits in catches crud from the road and can drop into the cylinder. Blow it clear before pulling the plug.