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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Previous owners i tell ya /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1431527971 Message started by Neilap on 05/13/15 at 07:39:31 |
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Title: Previous owners i tell ya Post by Neilap on 05/13/15 at 07:39:31 I was left a lawn ::) |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by Art Webb on 05/13/15 at 07:42:58 aw shoot man, that filter's good for at least another 20000 miles ;D |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by Neilap on 05/13/15 at 07:56:24 34272122303737550 wrote:
Ikr? I plucked all the grass out of it and I seem to have much better throttle response. I want to look into doing an exposed filter but im not sure if I want to stick with the carb on it or go to something with more response |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by Art Webb on 05/13/15 at 08:05:54 If you ditch the airbox I'd consider the non CV carb one of our members (Lancer maybe?) sells, CV carbs don't like open filters all that much, though they can be made to play sorts nice with them |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by Neilap on 05/13/15 at 08:28:56 constant velocity? |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by Dave on 05/13/15 at 08:47:23 426965606D7C0C0 wrote:
Yes. If you crack open the throttle too fast and the vacuum in the venturi drops......the slide in the carb lowers and keeps the vacuum where it should be....then raises as the engine vacuum builds. The air flow is kept at a "Constant Velocity" beneath the slide. If the vacuum were allowed to drop drastically.....there would not be sufficient vacuum to pull the fuel out of the float bowl and the engine "coughs" until you let up on the throttle a bit. Some carbs have accelerator pumps to solve this problem, other carbs use the vacuum operated slide (motorcycles and some cars like MG, Jaguar, Triumph, etc. used CV carbs). |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by Neilap on 05/13/15 at 08:51:56 172C2136272B30362D252837440 wrote:
Yes. If you crack open the throttle too fast and the vacuum in the venturi drops......the slide in the carb lowers and keeps the vacuum where it should be....then raises as the engine vacuum builds. The air flow is kept at a "Constant Velocity" beneath the slide. If the vacuum were allowed to drop drastically.....there would not be sufficient vacuum to pull the fuel out of the float bowl and the engine "coughs" until you let up on the throttle a bit. Some carbs have accelerator pumps to solve this problem, other carbs use the vacuum operated slide (motorcycles and some cars like MG, Jaguar, Triumph, etc. used CV carbs).[/quote] Awesome, im not as ignorant as I thought. what happens if you use a conventional style carb with a butterfly in example with no vacuum? |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by Art Webb on 05/13/15 at 08:58:24 And it's a delicate balance between vacuum, back pressure, and turbulence This is why so many people install freer flowing exhaust, etc, and are then frustrated by crappy performance and poor throttle response You CAN rejet and get it pretty good, or put a VM carb on and have an easier time of it If you plan on going beast mode with it, the VM is probably the way to go for milder engines the factory carb can still work well this is why bikes are a bit trickier than old muscle cars to hop up |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by Dave on 05/13/15 at 09:07:08 6B404C494455250 wrote:
Old cars and motorcycle used to have butterfly carbs without anything to help keep the mixture or velocity constant. You learned to roll the throttle on gently......if you opened the throttle to quickly....the engine would gasp for fuel and could just stop running. Generally there was a cough backwards through the carb as the lean mixture would ignite too quickly and burn backwards through the intake manifold. |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by Neilap on 05/13/15 at 09:07:24 I can see that now. No wonder bike mechanics here charge 75 an hour. id imagine if it were more than 1 cylinder a non CV carb would work better |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by Neilap on 05/13/15 at 09:10:03 Old cars and motorcycle used to have butterfly carbs without anything to help keep the mixture or velocity constant. You learned to roll the throttle on gently......if you opened the throttle to quickly....the engine would gasp for fuel and could just stop running. Generally there was a cough backwards through the carb as the lean mixture would ignite too quickly and burn backwards through the intake manifold. [/quote] I had a '86 monte carlo SS that was like that. running 3/4th cams. true duals with a 650cfm holley double pumper street avenger series carb. just laying on it would kill it for a good second to two then kick in. the sound of air being sucked in COMPLETLY muted out the true dual glasspack pipes lmao |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by Art Webb on 05/13/15 at 09:55:50 actually the cars in the old days had an accelerator pump to bridge the gap, and if all was adjusted right they wouldn't stumble like that, not sure about the bikes, as I never worked on a pre cv bike carb Your Monte needed a different accelerator pump diaphragm spring, ot the accelerator pump rod wasn't adjusted right Automotive carbs are a lot more complex than current moto carbs |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by Neilap on 05/13/15 at 10:05:20 Your Monte needed a different accelerator pump diaphragm spring, ot the accelerator pump rod wasn't adjusted right Automotive carbs are a lot more complex than current moto carbs [/quote] it was set really rich. it was good if you didnt just stomp on the gas. even if it was still quick with a small amount of time before full throttle it wouldnt stumble. im not too worried about it now. I totaled that car from falling asleep on the interstate. |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/13/15 at 10:25:41 Those filter should not cost that much. Old Feller took one, gutted it and built an effective filter for a little money and some time. If you did that to two filter you could always ride. I bought the KN drop in. Didn't fit right, air bypassed, I had to use epoxy to solve that. I kept a OEM filter to use while the KN dried. That was money poorly spent. Would not do it again. Paper filters blow out, drop in, ride. |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by Rylee on 05/13/15 at 11:48:18 Ahh previous owners... My bikes PO had the clutch cable routed so screwy that it slipped in almost every gear, wired up the tail light witha turn signal wire connected to the brake light (and had no idea why it didn't work) had the biggest jets the kit came with installed but tuned as lean as it could go and disconnected the start switch for a push button but left the mechanism on the bars for some odd reason. The oil in the bike was basically paste which was actually a blessing in disguise because when I pulled the clutch case to clean out the sludge I found the tensioner near falling apart. Bike had no rear brakes and I figured they were just worn beyond use only to find that there were actually no brake shoes in the drum when I opened it up. That was the best surprise I don't even know how he did that. I've heard of running no front brake but literally removing the brake shoes and leaving an empty drum astonished me. Every time I open something up on the bike I find more "half ass" short cuts and get arounds. |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/13/15 at 15:03:33 Okay! You win the prize for buying the worst maintained Savage I've heard of. I can't imagine removing the rear brake shoes,, talk about idiocy taken to an art form,, wow.. |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by Dave on 05/13/15 at 18:38:19 6A797F7C6E69690B0 wrote:
What is your idea of "old days".........I am not sure when the accelerator pump showed up - but I can show you a lot of brass era cars that don't have any accelerator pump. I know cars in the 50's had accelerator pumps - I don't know how much earlier. |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by arteacher on 05/13/15 at 19:32:34 I bought a year old car that had been repoed in the southern states and sat up here in Canada for a few months before I bought it from a dealer. It had a mouses nest in the cabin filter, the air filter, and under the back seat. |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by jcstokes on 05/13/15 at 19:34:00 Dave's right on very old cars not having Accelerator pumps. Zenith used a sort of vacuum system cheap Tillotson's didn't have pumps and Model A Fords had a knob you could enrich with from the dashboard. |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by Kris01 on 05/13/15 at 19:35:53 You could also adjust the timing manually from the steering wheel. |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by HovisPresley on 05/14/15 at 03:25:49 242F2F262A25243E3F4B0 wrote:
If it was fitted with a Cat converter, problem solved ;D |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by Neilap on 05/14/15 at 05:36:22 Lulz, iv been having spider problems with the savage. they love to make webs on it and I have no idea where they are coming from. I almost wrecked one what when a nickel sized jumping spider was sitting on my mirror |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by Art Webb on 05/14/15 at 21:24:46 152E2334252932342F272A35460 wrote:
What is your idea of "old days".........I am not sure when the accelerator pump showed up - but I can show you a lot of brass era cars that don't have any accelerator pump. I know cars in the 50's had accelerator pumps - I don't know how much earlier. [/quote] well I'm old and I'm a 1966 model lol You said old, you didn't mention a specific year ;) the Model T was actually the first car a driver of today would have the slightest notion of how to drive A lot of carts back then had hand throttles like a boat, and the other controls were often more bizarre, for what I've seen now I wanna google it and see when the accelerator pump was added to automotive carbs oddly, the Rebel still has one edit, tried googling, no answer, google sucks ;D |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/14/15 at 22:11:48 Kawasaki W 650 has one. |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by jcstokes on 05/14/15 at 22:26:39 Art Webb, I can't give an answer as to when the accelerator pump first appeared, but it was in use in the mid 'twenties and in quite widespread use by the late 'twenties on a number of mid price range cars, including the Whippet Six. An ordinary driver would have much fun and games attempting to drive a Model T without a very experienced tutor who had logged a good many hours in one. |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by Dave on 05/15/15 at 03:19:56 I have driven a lot of early brass era cars......and the Model T is the toughest one to drive. Three pedals on the floor is just not something any modern driver can adapt to very quickly. The right pedal is the foot brake. The left pedal is the gears.....middle position is neutral, down is low gear and all the way out is high gear. The middle pedal is reverse. When you pull on the hand brake it moves the left pedal to neutral.....when you release the hand brake you have to have your left foot on the gear pedal to keep it in neutral. When you want to move you have to push the left pedal down for low gear....then once up to speed you let the pedal all the way out for high gear. To reverse you use your left foot to hold the left gear pedal in neutral - then you use your right foot to push the middle pedal down for reverse gear. You can push the right brake pedal at any time to slow the car down. I can tell you that when you get in a jamb and your instinct kicks in......and you mash down on the left gear pedal with your left foot and also mash down on the right brake pedal with your right foot (like you would with a normal clutch and brake transmission).....low gear is stronger than the brakes and you will just drive right through the intersection as the traffic light turns red! :o |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/15/15 at 09:21:29 Dave said .low gear is stronger than the brakes and you will just drive right through the intersection as the traffic light turns red! Heres how I read it .low gear is stronger than the brakes and you will just rocket right through the intersection as the traffic light turns red asthe car uncontrollably accelerates toward its top speed, a speed so fast that people worried whether or not humans could survive even Going that fast, or whether they might just fly right off the edge of the flat earth. Yes, Dave, I've taken liberties, my apologies, just having fun. |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by Art Webb on 05/15/15 at 10:28:07 yup, cable operated rear wheel only brakes suck donkey jewels ;D but try earlier cars, with tillers instead of steering wheels, and only three of those ;D so according to JC stokes the mid twenties average car had an accelerator pump that qualifies as the old days 'far as I'm concerned, as the automobile not even 20 yet ;D |
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Title: Re: Previous owners i tell ya Post by Dave on 05/16/15 at 04:25:19 67787E7964635262526A78743F0D0 wrote:
I am pretty sure that is how my female office manager in the passenger seat relates the experience.....it was her first ride in an antique car (and most likely her last). ;) |
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