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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Don't like this at all /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1429637332 Message started by engineer on 04/21/15 at 10:28:52 |
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Title: Don't like this at all Post by engineer on 04/21/15 at 10:28:52 I just saw these two articles in the Yahoo news today. Automakers to gearheads: Stop repairing cars Car Companies Say Home Repairs Are 'Legally Problematic,' Seek Copyright Restrictions Automakers are supporting provisions in copyright law that could prohibit home mechanics and car enthusiasts from repairing and modifying their own vehicles. In comments filed with a federal agency that will determine whether tinkering with a car constitutes a copyright violation, OEMs and their main lobbying organization say cars have become too complex and dangerous for consumers and third parties to handle. Allowing them to continue to fix their cars has become "legally problematic," according to a written statement from the Auto Alliance, the main lobbying arm of automakers. We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Very Idea of Ownership IT’S OFFICIAL: JOHN Deere and General Motors want to eviscerate the notion of ownership. Sure, we pay for their vehicles. But we don’t own them. Not according to their corporate lawyers, anyway. In a particularly spectacular display of corporate delusion, John Deere—the world’s largest agricultural machinery maker —told the Copyright Office that farmers don’t own their tractors. Because computer code snakes through the DNA of modern tractors, farmers receive “an implied license for the life of the vehicle to operate the vehicle.” It’s John Deere’s tractor, folks. You’re just driving it. Several manufacturers recently submitted similar comments to the Copyright Office under an inquiryinto the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. DMCA is a vast 1998 copyright law that (among other things) governs the blurry line between software and hardware. The Copyright Office, after reading the comments and holding a hearing, will decide in July which high-tech devices we can modify, hack, and repair—and decide whether John Deere’s twisted vision of ownership will become a reality. |
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Title: Re: Don't like this at all Post by Pine on 04/21/15 at 10:42:42 ! agreed! I am sure that we... we being anyone that likes to tinker/modify their vehicle.. are in the minority at this point. But you can safely assume i will not be buying any vehicle that I do not 100% own and can modify to my hearts content. Of course I am old and have no problem cobling some 1950's thing on wheels to get me where I need to go. Ford was mentioned right up there with GM.. if they press I will never buy another.. oh wait .. I have not owned either since 2008. This is just another example corps flexing thier muscle with government to screw John Q public. Actually ... its not not even new!!! You may recall back in the 60's and early 70's that dealers could install 'dealer options" like intake manifolds.. exhausts.. basically very real changes to the car. US auto makers put an end to that. Though .. to be honest ... some dealers had it coming. The problem was that dealers would modify the car... and then hold the auto maker up for warranty work when the hot rod later burned something up. I see this going back and forth. Enthusiasts will just rip out all the electronics.. so the auto makers will get government to make that illegal. Hell it might already be! Why do I see iRobot in this. |
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Title: Re: Don't like this at all Post by Dave on 04/21/15 at 10:43:10 Well......could be that I never own another new car. I better take care of the ones I currently "OWN". And if they want to argue that point.....who is going to repay the Ad Volurem Taxes I have paid the state of KY each year? |
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Title: Re: Don't like this at all Post by oldNslow on 04/21/15 at 11:36:32 "ALL YOUR AUTOMOBILES ARE NOW BELONG TO US" Big corporations hand in hand with big overreaching governments = Fascism Benito would be so proud ! |
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Title: Re: Don't like this at all Post by old_rider on 04/23/15 at 19:09:10 Once I "purchase" a car... it is mine to do with as I will..... If they pass a law like this... all car guys will start building their own and the companies will go out of business. That is why it will never pass.... I can't believe the story is true anyway... car companies know we mod our cars.... they even provide different versions so we can "upgrade" it ourselves using their parts. |
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Title: Re: Don't like this at all Post by Pine on 04/24/15 at 13:38:06 0E0D051308050413610 wrote:
Of course they will let you mod your own car and supply you with the parts to do so.. again.. as long as you pay THEM for their parts... follow the money.. I predict the law will pass... policitians are dumb as dirt |
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Title: Re: Don't like this at all Post by verslagen1 on 04/24/15 at 14:03:42 given the state of current copyright laws, or at least it's enforcement (btw, I'm no expert) you may copy someones design as long as it's for personal use. being that it would be to costly to go after each and every owner for a change and essentially minimal value. the only thing they could do would be to refuse to support it. that would shoot themselves in the foot as all the consumers would now going to independents for service. So, GM would do as Ferrari does and void the warranty if a non-factory certified tech touches the car... for any reason. |
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Title: Re: Don't like this at all Post by Art Webb on 04/25/15 at 08:55:35 After 30,000 miles, (more for some cars now) YOU are the warranty, anyway However the idea that doing a brake job should void the warranty on the engine, or even the emissions system, is flat silly, and the supreme court has already ruled on that, in favor of the owner we can do our own basic repairs, and the burden of proof that the work we did caused a problem in a warranted system is on the manufacturer Obviously if you deleted your catalyst, you voided the warranty on the emissions system (or at least that part of it) but replacing the muffler does not |
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Title: Re: Don't like this at all Post by old_rider on 04/25/15 at 16:30:07 The newest story I have read about this pertains to the ECU's .... they don't want folks rewriting the factory software to enhance performance. They will still let you work on your stuff...starter change , radiator change ect..... but you won't be able to "tune" your car or trucks brain. Also with the newer cars and the computers they use for gps, music, video's ect.... some people are "hacking" the software and downloading stuff for free.... and that is what the new law/bill is trying to prevent. Just like Microsoft, you might "own" your laptop.... but you are just "borrowing" the use of the software on it. |
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Title: Re: Don't like this at all Post by Pine on 04/28/15 at 09:12:30 4340485E4548495E2C0 wrote:
The difference is.. I can buy a laptop and use another OS... I cant buy a Vette.. and put another ecu in it. |
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Title: Re: Don't like this at all Post by HondaLavis on 04/28/15 at 19:43:25 5D64636879627F0D0 wrote:
You can't buy a laptop and re-write Windows to suit your needs - at least Microsoft doesn't want you to. I think that's closer to what the car companies are aiming for. I don't like it either, but with the number of things controlled by the central computer, I imagine this will pick up quite a bit of support. I think preventing at home mechanics from tampering with the software will happen in conjunction with safety features for wireless car-hacking. If you haven't seen that yet, it's definitely worth reading. :o |
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Title: Re: Don't like this at all Post by Art Webb on 04/28/15 at 20:09:32 71484F44554E53210 wrote:
The difference is.. I can buy a laptop and use another OS... I cant buy a Vette.. and put another ecu in it. [/quote] actually there are stand alone ECUs :D personally I'm not happy with the amount of stuff that is computer controlled in modern cars that doesn't need to be Cruise control? had it before computers automatic headlights? M/Cs have 'always on' headlights without computers, they work great now traction control and stability control you need computers for, EFI you need computers for, transmissions you really don't, but that's another argument and we wonder whay an 'economy car' costs 20K+ |
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Title: Re: Don't like this at all Post by Trippah on 04/28/15 at 20:25:50 when they finally start selling the automatic (you don't drive it) car, they will need to make it impossible and really illegal to hack into the brain, or some geek will reprogram his ex girlfriends' car. :o :o |
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Title: Re: Don't like this at all Post by Art Webb on 04/28/15 at 20:29:27 or a cyber terrorist will reprogram a whole stonking BUNCH of cars :o |
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Title: Re: Don't like this at all Post by old_rider on 04/30/15 at 20:05:45 Well, you could ask for the option of "manual windows and door locks" and then order a crate motor and tranny to match, then rip out your ecu, cpu and any other "pu" and wiring harnesses. Rewire the brakes and blinkers and there you have it.... no computers. AND you would not be breaking their "don't mess with our software rule", cause you won't be using it. ;D |
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Title: Re: Don't like this at all Post by Art Webb on 04/30/15 at 21:45:01 or...you could buy and lovingly maintain a classic vehicle :) |
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Title: Re: Don't like this at all Post by spearheadss on 05/01/15 at 02:48:43 687B7D7E6C6B6B090 wrote:
I like this idea. |
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Title: Re: Don't like this at all Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/01/15 at 08:47:05 Which I also agree with. I have a 87 model F150, and the ethanol has been hard on it. What they can't ruin they can legislate out of existence. What's coming is coming. Until there is a change of direction for the country, You and I may be able to push it back For US, but, eventually, what is for the masses is for US,too. Lightbulbs, toilets, showers, someone else is deciding for me.. for my own good,of course. |
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Title: Re: Don't like this at all Post by Art Webb on 05/01/15 at 10:40:12 Ethanol can be removed from gas, if you want to go through all the trouble of doing it http://goldwingdocs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=14679 My old 76 Chevy had no problem with the stuff, but man did it drink gas |
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Title: Re: Don't like this at all Post by Steve H on 05/02/15 at 09:02:41 If we all start building our own vehicles, it won't be long before the politicians and car makers get together and make the home-builts have to meet all federal safety and environmental standards. We all need at least one engine that is either a completely mechanical compression ignition engine or no electronics with points for when the EMP comes. We'll still be able to get around. I submit an alternate proposal. All computer code must be openly available. Not just the first rev. all revisions that made it into production at the time of sale of the first unit containing it. All processors in any vehicle shall have an easily accessible data connection for the OWNER, no quotes, of said processor to be able to read and change any item deemed necessary. The OWNER, no quotes, shall have complete and total access to and control of any and all functions manipulated electronically. The manufacturer of said unit shall provide, in several currently prevalent operating systems, interfacing software, with the vehicle, allowing this access and control. The data connector(s) shall be of currently prevalent design at time of manufacture, as usb is now. There shall be no special connectors or required special cables. |
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Title: Re: Don't like this at all Post by Art Webb on 05/03/15 at 10:07:03 you'll never get that passed, i gaurantee so far as building our own, who brought that up? i was talking about buying old cars trust me, enough Sheeple will buy the electronic nannys that we'll be allowed to keep our classics |
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Title: Re: Don't like this at all Post by mpescatori on 05/04/15 at 01:04:52 67595854465A5B350 wrote:
Please mind your own McCarthy business... you may have mistaken Stalin, Mao or PolPot with an otherwise comparatively very liberal dictator... |
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Title: Re: Don't like this at all Post by Dave on 05/04/15 at 05:17:48 485751564B4C7D4D7D45575B10220 wrote:
For a while I felt that the EPA and others should allow a way for us to purchased ethanol free fuel for our older equipment. So many of us have older equipment that works just fine (as long as it is not stored with ethanol fuel in the tank)....and that is especially true of the small farmer who is still running their old gasoline tractors. How many small farmers are still running the Ford 8N tractors for raking hay?.....lots of them. And this seasonal equipment often sits for extended periods of time and the ethanol fuel has been really hard on the old carburetor equipped equipment. I finally came to the conclusion that the legislators goal is to remove all this old equipment from the workforce.......they want us using new equipment that is more environmentally friendly. They really could care less about the "bottom feeders"....the ones who are just barely getting by. |
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Title: Re: Don't like this at all Post by Pine on 05/04/15 at 09:19:22 7F44495E4F43585E454D405F2C0 wrote:
For a while I felt that the EPA and others should allow a way for us to purchased ethanol free fuel for our older equipment. So many of us have older equipment that works just fine (as long as it is not stored with ethanol fuel in the tank)....and that is especially true of the small farmer who is still running their old gasoline tractors. How many small farmers are still running the Ford 8N tractors for raking hay?.....lots of them. And this seasonal equipment often sits for extended periods of time and the ethanol fuel has been really hard on the old carburetor equipped equipment. I finally came to the conclusion that the legislators goal is to remove all this old equipment from the workforce.......they want us using new equipment that is more environmentally friendly. They really could care less about the "bottom feeders"....the ones who are just barely getting by.[/quote] //agreed |
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Title: Re: Don't like this at all Post by Art Webb on 05/04/15 at 09:44:02 I reached that conclusion long ago |
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Title: Re: Don't like this at all Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/04/15 at 10:00:56 I had a grampa who was a farmer. I WATCHED, every summer, when I went to visit, more neighbours who had sold out to some conglomerate. The big farmers are making tons from subsidies, the food supply is being brought under more and more centralized control, fewer farmers, easier to control. I overheard a farmers wife bragging, I was torn between puking, listening to learn, screaming or chewing her out. She's convinced that it's OKAY to pocket money sent to her by the government after it was taken from the rest of the people by fraud. And she was looking forward to more. The GOAL is tyranny, and they are winning. |
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