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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> New owner questions /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1429300428 Message started by Neilap on 04/17/15 at 12:53:47 |
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Title: New owner questions Post by Neilap on 04/17/15 at 12:53:47 Im not sure if this has been covered but I felt that I should ask before i take out and really run it. I got a 2001 with 4120 miles and was wondering are there any motorcycle safe oil detergents to run through it to dislodge and dissolve any sludge that may be in there prior to a proper oil change so that I can keep track of it. And is there a special procedure to take off the carb and clean it (the last 6 years of the previous owner bike has been used mostly for short trips and I know atleast with a car that leads to carbon deposits) and anything else i need to account for and to assume to be dirty asides the oil and air filter and sparkplug? I want to make sure i get as much out of that 652 as possible. |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by jcstokes on 04/17/15 at 13:11:02 Just to start the discussion, I feel that all you need to do is buy some of the Shell Rotella T6 that is the favoured oil on this forum, an oil filter. Get the bike well warmed up and follow the posts here on oil changes. If you feel skilled you may wish to check the tappet clearance and there are tech section posts on doing this, you may wish to note posts about using specially bent feeler gauges for this purpose. The spark plug should last about 6000 miles, but they're cheap just make sure the cavity around the plug is well cleaned out. The techies can comment about carb cleaning. |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Gary_in_NJ on 04/17/15 at 13:16:13 The best way to remove "sludge" would be to do the oil change while the oil is still hot. There are additives on the market, but for the most part they are simply kerosine. If the oil was changed with any kind of frequency it shouldn't have any sludge with only 4,000 miles. Nothing special with removing the carb...other then making sure you don't loose any parts. I do usually throw away the brass phillips-head screws and replace them with cap head screws. It will make future servicing much easier. |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Neilap on 04/17/15 at 13:18:59 I will keep this in mind. And i ask because i picked up the bike with oil that had no transperancy what so ever in the sight hole lol. And rotella? Isnt that like a diesel engine oil? |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/17/15 at 13:20:35 spark plug , it's virtually new. Dust , grit, junk, collect down where it sits. Clean , blow, get the crud out before you pull the plug, but for now, the less you touch before getting it running the better. Sludge? No.. The inside is new, it's had one oil change. I would be more concerned about the piston and cylinder wall. If you have not started it, good. I'd pull the plug and oil the cylinder and manually roll the motor over, depending on how long it's been sitting.. It's a wet clutch. Wrong oils are trouble. The cheapest oil that will keep this antique design happy is Rotella T 15_40. About $13.00 a gallon, or, you can spend more. One of our guys has over 100,000 miles on his. Ask him what he does.. I don't know... If you discover an oil leak up high on the engine and you take it to a mechanic,, it's not the head gasket, I don't care if he is Don Garlits dad, it's NOT the head gasket. |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Coaxial on 04/17/15 at 13:48:36 Dropping the carb isnt too difficult. +Seat off, petcock off unless you have stock, then just drain into a gas can. +Get the carb float bowl drained of gas. +Remove speedo cable. Watch out for that gasket. +Remove tank, pull back a bit and up.. please note there is a connected cable also there. Disconnect that part way through removing it. At this point you can either drop the carb and clean it throughly or unscrew the bowl and top to just take out and clean the jets. If you are dropping the carb.. i find it hard to put back in that tight space. +To drop the carb.. unclamp both ends and wiggle 'er out. Good luck! |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by MnSpring on 04/17/15 at 15:04:42 My 3 cents. (Inflation) If it is running fine. Get it hot, change the oil, Use Rotilla, add Red-line. (See Teck Section) Then drain the gas, and put in good gas. Gas that does NOT have Water in it. (Non-Oxy) gas. You don't need a high octane, just NO WATER in the gas. If you can't get, 'Non-Oxy' gas, make sure you put a GOOD stabilizer in the gas. (Perhaps Stabill Marine) follow instructions. Then it will be the Raptor Petcock, Cam Chain Adjuster, Tightening bolts, (Not To much) Good rubber. Then 'tinker/add/change', as you see fit. |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/17/15 at 15:27:13 If it's running,ride. Fresh gas, drain the carb bowl. Don't go fixing stuff.. do one thing at a time. Just get it running. Before you decide what to do, report as completely and accurately what you have done and what it's doing. The oil filter CAN be installed backwards. Don't. There's an o ring on it. Don't lose it. Slow down, ask questions, if you change things in too many places you create variables that will be difficult to sort out. |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Neilap on 04/17/15 at 17:34:16 44675A797B60676E090 wrote:
Lol inflation love it. And it is running fine. I rode it 40 miles back home. I was just concerned as the oil in it i was told is around a year old (probably a lie) and its black as coal. And i cant get non oxygas in my area if not the whole of w.v. its all 10% ethanol unless its like 93 octane i believe. But i wanted to make sure as im about to begin using it for a 80 mile daily work commute |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Serowbot on 04/17/15 at 18:10:14 Oil blackens with heat,(just like cooking oil darkens in a pan)... it's not necessarily dirty... ... and this is an air-cooled engine, so it gets hot... ...but,... whenever you buy a used bike,.. put fresh oil in it... (it's part of bonding with yer' machine)... :-*... Modern oil has plenty of detergents in it,... Shell Rotella is a diesel oil, but it's also best for our bike... (Harley even says, if you can't get their brand, use a good diesel oil... and they only recommend their brand to get yer' money)... I use Rotella in my Savage and my Sportster... It's good stuff... |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Neilap on 04/17/15 at 18:52:02 Great. And another question. Is the Redline additive a must have with Rotella t6? I just bought some an hour ago. And wanted to make sure prior to changing it with just straight rotella if it will messup the clutch. |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Kris01 on 04/17/15 at 20:18:12 Add 2 ozs. per gallon of Rotella for the right ratio. |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Neilap on 04/17/15 at 20:21:18 So its an absolute required thing to run off of rotella? |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Kris01 on 04/17/15 at 20:24:12 Required? Not really. You can use other MC oils but Rotella is the best. Check the tech section for a list of oils that won't ruin your clutch. |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Neilap on 04/17/15 at 20:28:00 655C475D1E1F2E0 wrote:
i tried searching for that and came up empty handed. I blame my phone. |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Kris01 on 04/17/15 at 20:32:17 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1344471565 |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Kris01 on 04/17/15 at 20:33:10 And the other one: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1344471408 |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by KennyG on 04/17/15 at 20:52:36 Kris, I have a bottle of the Red Line Break In Additive and I am wondering how many miles on the engine before I should discontinue the Red Line? Kenny G |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Kris01 on 04/17/15 at 20:56:21 I don't think I'd ever discontinue using it. It contains sacrificial zinc that wears away instead of the cam lobes & etc. The additive gets destroyed instead of the internal engine parts. |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Neilap on 04/17/15 at 21:04:19 Thanks! |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Serowbot on 04/17/15 at 21:59:45 I have a friend that takes over 100 vitamins a day... He says, he playing it safe... I say, he has expensive pee... :-?... |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by KennyG on 04/17/15 at 22:27:32 Kris, Thank You! Kenny G |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Kris01 on 04/18/15 at 07:18:59 4751465B43565B40340 wrote:
;D ;D ;D Since the oil companies have left us "low tech" guys stranded without zinc in our oil, we have to add some. The zinc used to be there to protect the metal surfaces from sliding friction. Since everything has gone to roller-this and roller-that, there isn't near the amount of friction involved and they can save $$$ by omitting the zinc (and other additives). The Redline (and others) protect the metal surfaces in the engine with zinc since the "regular" oil doesn't contain much anymore. The consensus is that ~1200 ppm is the right amount to have for protection. Too little is useless and too much will accelerate wear. |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by WD on 04/18/15 at 08:28:01 T6 is 5W40, and more than one bike has had issues keeping it in the engine... Regular Rotella T is 15W40, and for some riders, their climate is too cool for that heavy an oil... Rotella also happens to make a 10W30 high zinc (compared to car oil) for Kubota and other small industrial diesel engines... I ran my 98 Savage on Castrol GTX 20W50 for years without issue. And then the formula changed and the clutch started slipping. >:( Ran my Kawasaki VN800A on Mobil red top 15W50 until the formula changed, and the clutch started slipping. >:( Tried all the "motorcycle" oils at one point or another in various road bikes, and the clutches slipped. >:( Stick to a name brand diesel oil, whatever one your particular machine seems to prefer (each engine has its own quirks). My 2003 has behaved best, and gotten it only decent fuel economy, on a blend (50/50) of Delo 15W40 and T6 5W40. Fuel economy on mine averages around 40mpg, on a bike that should be getting in the 70s (based on my 98, which got in the mid 70s to mid 80s, consistently, using 20W50). It almost got 45mpg on the blended oil (couldn't find second bottle of Delo in the garage, so, used a bottle of T6 that the store wouldn't take back). I generally don't use synthetics in my bike. By 100 miles, the crankcase is empty, regardless of the brand. That's 2 Slopokis and 2 Kawis in a row that can't use the stuff, for the same reason. I average 75-100 miles per day, year round. If there is no ice, and it isn't a tropical downpour, I'm taking the bike. Hate driving. |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Steve H on 04/18/15 at 08:46:07 I think the zinc also has a detrimental effect on catalytic converters. Another reason they want it out of the oil. It's strange, they've taken the good roller bearings off of the crank and cam of most newer bikes and put in sleeve bearings and put the rollers on the rockers now. Let's put rollers on everything...it'll last a lot longer. |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Neilap on 04/18/15 at 14:31:28 5A490D0 wrote:
So. The rotella t6 will just burn off? Cause rotella t6 in my area is 30 dollars for a gallon and i really dont want to hear that i just wasted 30 dollars lol |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Neilap on 04/18/15 at 14:33:26 I see I may need to request MSDS from companies or online to see what il use on my bike if this stuff goes away in that short of a time frame. |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by oldNslow on 04/18/15 at 14:53:47 0F24282D2031410 wrote:
MSDS probably aren't going to help you much. Those documents address the Fire and/or explosion hazards, environmental hazards and possible human toxicity of the materials. They don't necessarily list of the percentages of the various components of a particular material. I'd just run 15/40 Rotella and quit worrying about it. In fact that's exactly what I do. |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Neilap on 04/18/15 at 19:15:04 5D63626E7C60610F0 wrote:
MSDS probably aren't going to help you much. Those documents address the Fire and/or explosion hazards, environmental hazards and possible human toxicity of the materials. They don't necessarily list of the percentages of the various components of a particular material. I'd just run 15/40 Rotella and quit worrying about it. In fact that's exactly what I do.[/quote] You are correct. I mixed up MSDS and the labels we had in the frac field lol. Well the issue is i got the 5w-40 t3 and slightly out of money until i get paid. I start back at my normal job making good money (been living off of delivery driving past 2 months) |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by WD on 04/18/15 at 23:25:08 Most riders have no problems with 5W40 or 10W40. Most Savage riders aren't me... I ride my bikes like I hate them. Drives most of my riding friends bonkers, they are in 4th and I'm still in second...and going around them. I obliterated (not broke, completely destroyed) 4 engines and 6 transmissions in 6 months on an FXWG... The "authorized" HD shops still won't sell me a new new, I wore out the warranty on that one. ;D |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Neilap on 04/19/15 at 05:41:33 I obliterated (not broke, completely destroyed) 4 engines and 6 transmissions in 6 months on an FXWG... The "authorized" HD shops still won't sell me a new new, I wore out the warranty on that one. ;D[/quote] Lol thats how my cars get treated at times. Iam now on my second vehicle with a messed up valve amongst other problems. The bike doesnt get abuse since it will get me up to speed without winding out gears or smashing the throttle Lol. Oh and is it normal when i shut the bike off after 2 seconds it always gives a small backfire? Its no more than talking level volume but does it everytime |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Kris01 on 04/19/15 at 06:39:52 Normal. Is it more of a "poof" and not a "shotgun blast"? |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Neilap on 04/19/15 at 07:49:43 0B3229337071400 wrote:
Its a poof. Very reliable ontime poof. |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Kris01 on 04/19/15 at 08:01:21 That's normal. You can rejet the carburetor richer and it may help but the engine always seems to do that. It dumps a little fuel out the exhaust pipe and that is what you hear popping as it burns. It's nothing to worry about though. If you just don't like it, others have reported that they leave the bike in gear and release the clutch slowly while holding the brake to stop the engine. The slowing RPMs seem to allow the unburnt fuel to not build up as fast and burn, uh....quieter? That sounds weird! :D |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Neilap on 04/19/15 at 08:06:14 172E352F6C6D5C0 wrote:
If its a nature of the beast thing then im alright with it. And it it normal to hear the upper engine at idle and lower rpm running? It doesnt sound unhealthy per say but its just different. That and im 350 lbs and 6'4. iv had it to 85 up a slight hill on the interstate easy without and stability issues. I could feel the engine vibrate alil but it was smooth. |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Serowbot on 04/19/15 at 08:15:09 350 and 6'4"... wait a minute... I'm creating a mental picture... :-?... Ooookay... That upper engine noise is normal... big air-cooled thumpers make more noise than water cooled multi's... Bigger valves, and less water jacket block sound... |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Neilap on 04/19/15 at 08:49:19 7D6B7C61796C617A0E0 wrote:
Okay good so its normal. And yes. I spent too much time weight lifting (im 23 now) in the past and im not a legs tall person. Take a normal person and scale them up to 6'4. I actually fit the bike comfortably except the brake pedal could come out to the right more. |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Neilap on 04/19/15 at 08:51:03 And i could lose some weight. Never go from a highly active life style to a lazy one and forget to change your eating habits :D |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Art Webb on 04/22/15 at 19:16:24 just so you all know, Rotella isn't just 'diesel oil' it's 'multi use' oil, and is JASO certified as a motorcycle oil in addition to it's many other uses JASO certified means the major Japanese bike makers approve it's use in their products and the regular Rotella T is probably as zinc laced as it needs to be straight up, though adding the Redline sure won't hurt any |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Kris01 on 04/22/15 at 20:02:16 I forget how much zinc (in ppm) is in Rotella T. It's listed on the forum somewhere. However, the consensus here is that it is a little low compared to what oil used to be. The prevailing thought around here is that 1100 ppm is a safe amount. I add 2 ozs of Redline to 1 gallon of Rotella T. |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Art Webb on 04/22/15 at 20:44:49 Rotella has 1200 PPM I think, but adding redline is cheap insurance |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Kris01 on 04/22/15 at 21:10:55 Oops! 1200 ppm! Not 1100. My fault. |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Dave on 04/23/15 at 03:33:01 162F342E6D6C5D0 wrote:
Adding 2 oz. of the ZDDP additive is as much as you should be adding....don't add more than that. I found a report that showed adding more then 1,400 ppm of zinc actually increases wear. 43787562737F646279717C63100 wrote:
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Art Webb on 04/23/15 at 08:05:02 good find, and yup, rotella T 1200 PPM ZDDP :) Dass de good stuff |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by KennyG on 04/23/15 at 09:12:48 What is the recommended dose of Red Line to be added for the second oil change? Kenny G |
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Title: Re: New owner questions Post by Dave on 04/23/15 at 09:28:34 Same as all the others. No more than 2 oz per gallon if you are mixing in the jug the oil cam in....1 Oz per oil change in the crankcase. |
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