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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Stator question - charging issue /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1428230326 Message started by Steve H on 04/05/15 at 03:38:46 |
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Title: Stator question - charging issue Post by Steve H on 04/05/15 at 03:38:46 So, my 87 decided it didn't want to charge its battery again the other day. Well, actually probably for a while but noticed it the other day when it would barely turn over and start to get home. I checked the stator for resistance between all leads and from all leads to ground. I've got from 1.9 to 2.3 ohms between leads and 1.9 to 2.1 ohms from each lead to chassis ground. Is this correct? Voltages from the stator are in the normal ranges. Regulator is putting out good voltage. Well, I say good voltage...12.6 measured across the terminals of r/r output with the engine running. Voltage went up to almost 13 while revving engine. Battery voltage with engine off was 11.2. 12.1v at the battery terminals. I'm losing .5v somewhere between the reg/rec and the battery. Checked charging current from regulator. At idle, I'm getting 5.6 amps and at approx 3500 I'm getting 7.8 amps. Battery tests good. Charges right up and maintains voltage while sitting. When full charged, it stays over 12v when starting. Anybody have any ideas what's going on? |
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Title: Re: Stator question - charging issue Post by Yoshi on 04/05/15 at 05:26:41 I usually read the voltage from stator to the regulator which should be a high number in AC voltage in all 3 wires. Now check the voltage coming from regulator to battery, the stator is working correctly if your battery is showing high numbers while the bike is running. You might want to load test your battery if its not acting right |
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Title: Re: Stator question - charging issue Post by oldNslow on 04/05/15 at 07:22:24 Quote:
A good, fully charged battery with no load on it should read at least 12.6V across the terminals. I just went out and checked mine - bike hasn't been ridden for about five days - it;s been too cold- and it reads 12.8V. Like Yoshi suggested,take the battery somewhere and get it load tested, especially if it's more that a couple of years old. |
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Title: Re: Stator question - charging issue Post by swedishbiker on 04/05/15 at 08:56:22 Charging current seems ok, so check the battery. You should get 12.6-12.8V over the battery. |
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Title: Re: Stator question - charging issue Post by Kris01 on 04/05/15 at 14:21:08 Auto Zone will load test it for free. |
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Title: Re: Stator question - charging issue Post by Steve H on 04/05/15 at 17:59:39 The 11.2 was the dead battery voltage after it just barely started to get me home. The battery tests fine. After charging for several hours, it's fully charged and the voltage numbers are back to normal. Voltage dropped just a little after taking it off the charger then has held steady all day. Starts like a champ. All of the voltage readings referenced were with the battery at its near dead state. R/R output 12.6v at idle getting up close to 13v when revved to ~3500 - 4000. Charging output amps were also with the low battery. The 12.6 to 13v was at the output terminal of the regulator. It lost .5v by the time it got to the battery and was only 12.1v. Charging amps were also taken at the output of the regulator. I couldn't find an easy way to check at the battery. Should I have a low ohms connection to ground through the stator? It measures ~2 ohm to ground through all 3 leads. It measures ~2 ohm from lead to lead. No opens measured. No dead shorts measured. I don't remember the exact readings but I had good, high AC volts coming from the stator on all 3 leads so I just went on to the other side of the regulator. OldNSlow: Looks like I worded that very confusingly. The engine off battery voltage when I got home was 11.2. With the engine running after jumping from a car battery to get it started and disconnecting the car battery, I had 12.1 at the battery with engine running and 12.6 and the output of the regulator. The battery is just over a year old. I had it load tested after charging it and it tested fine. There is a .5v drop between the reg output and the battery terminal. I'm wondering if this is normal or if I have a bad connection somewhere in between. Seems like I would have to have a high resistance in that short amount of wire somewhere to lose that kind of voltage. |
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Title: Re: Stator question - charging issue Post by Kris01 on 04/05/15 at 18:07:44 Not to hijack your thread but what is the minimum RPM to charge the battery? |
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Title: Re: Stator question - charging issue Post by oldNslow on 04/05/15 at 19:26:32 Quote:
I'm not 100% sure about this as it pertains to a savage, but I don't think so. In most alternators that I'm familiar with the stator winding shouldn't show a connection to ground. I can't find anything in my clymers that gives me a clue, but I don't think any of the three yellow wires should show a connection to ground. There should be continuity( low resistance) between any two pairs of them, which apparently you have. With the engine running at 5000rpm( according to Clymers, but I'm not sure how you are supposed to determine the exact rpm) the AC voltage between any two pairs of the yellow wires should be above 100 volts. According to the manual, with a fully charged good battery, headlight on HI beam, and engine at 5000 rpm, a voltage reading between 14 and 15.5 volts measured across the battery terminals indicates that the charging system is working properly. |
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Title: Re: Stator question - charging issue Post by thumperclone on 04/05/15 at 20:01:29 infinity ohms between any of the yellows this is from the ssm think I posted the readings some years ago maybe a mod can find them if not can post them tomorrow |
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Title: Re: Stator question - charging issue Post by Steve H on 04/05/15 at 21:24:43 I wouldn't expect to see a wye config tied to ground either in a situation where rectification occurs between the 3 phases not between each phase and ground. I have over 100v AC between any 2 stator leads. No problem there. I could find nothing in Clymer's either about a connection to ground. Kris01: From the output reading I was getting the other day, 5.6amps at 12.6v, that's 70w, you should barely be charging at idle. I would like to see the voltage be a little higher but I think my dead battery was pulling it down consuming all the power it could get. Looks like it might be charging now. I ran a bypass through an inline fuse straight from the regulator output to the battery bypassing the ignition switch and the harness wiring back to the battery. Now, I'll just have to ride around a while and see if it fixed it or not. It seems like losing .5v in 1.5ft of wire is a little excessive. I also noticed a couple times while testing that if I moved the key a little, I would notice a slight but noticeable flicker in the lights...especially with the engine off and key on. Hope it's either fixed or I can get it fixed soon...prime riding season is just around the corner. |
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Title: Re: Stator question - charging issue Post by prechermike on 04/06/15 at 03:51:20 I'm not sure about amps and ohms, I can do volts pretty good. Just so you know, you guys are probably beyond me. But, I had an '87 up until a couple of years ago, my diagnosis from the guys on here was the stator was weak. I tried and tested various things, but it seems you have done all I had done. Anyway, if I rode around town for a few days my battery would go down but it i took a 30 mile one way trip things would charge up and be fine. After chasing that for a while I came up with a good solution. I put a trickle charger on about once a week, left it on overnight, and that eliminated the symptom. I never had any more trouble with starting. I know it did not fix the problem, but it allowed me to start the bike whenever I wanted to. I can't often help with technical questions, maybe I am no help now. But it worked for me. ;) ;) |
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Title: Re: Stator question - charging issue Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/06/15 at 04:12:02 Mike, that's a WorkAround solution. It's a compromise. I do it. The backhoe has leaky rear axle seals,,, repairs would cost in excess of three thousand dollars.. I just check and fill the oil.. |
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Title: Re: Stator question - charging issue Post by oldNslow on 04/06/15 at 07:26:48 Quote:
That's excellent advice for anyone who does a lot of short trips, or doesn't ride the bike every day. The charging system on these things is marginal even when it's working correctly. If my bike is going to sit for much more than a week it gets plugged into the battery tender. |
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Title: Re: Stator question - charging issue Post by Kris01 on 04/06/15 at 19:04:50 617A23202126242B120 wrote:
Thanks. |
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Title: Re: Stator question - charging issue Post by Steve H on 04/08/15 at 03:26:42 I want to thank everyone for the help. I will update if it ever stops raining around here long enough for me to ride some. Still have the question about the ohms to ground on the stator. Clymer says nothing about it and doesn't say to check it. Is there any leakage back through the reg/rec when the engine is not running? That's the only reason I can think of that would make them carry the charging current through the ignition switch. |
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Title: Re: Stator question - charging issue Post by Steve H on 04/18/15 at 21:04:17 After doing some riding, I find my battery is still slowly losing power. After checking several sources on the net and contacting ricks electrical about the stator issue, I find that there should be no connection measureable to ground. It should be infinity to ground from any of the 3 phases. Around 2ohms is normal phase to phase. Apparantly as the engine gets hotter, I am losing more and more power to ground. The charging amps coming out of the r/r are going down when the engine is good and warm. Looks like it's time for a replacement stator. I'll probably order new since most of the stuff I see on the bay looks pretty well cooked and black already. Anybody ever tried rewinding one of these stators? |
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Title: Re: Stator question - charging issue Post by MnSpring on 04/19/15 at 14:44:55 Steve, Sent you a P.M. |
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Title: Re: Stator question - charging issue Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/19/15 at 17:59:16 A PM on solving a stator issue? Me? Rewinding the VCR was a hassle, but I've known guys who wound slot car motors. CAN you wind one? Why not? But, what is it gonna cost if you fail? What does it cost to buy and slap in? Im pretty big on fixing stuff, but knowing when the learning curve and potential savings aren't worth it... Sometimes it is best to bite the bullet. Or, YOU might be Just the right guy to fix it... |
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Title: Re: Stator question - charging issue Post by Dave on 04/20/15 at 04:10:18 I have no experience in this stator area.....however I have been around enough to see that they do fail occasionally. Not sure of the cause...heat, oil additives breaking down the insulation...who knows. If you want to be the pioneer in rewinding them.....buy a replacement and install it, and then take your time exploring the options with the rewind process. You can buy some pretty cheap aftermarket units on eBay....no idea how good they might be. They start around $ 40 and go up over $200. Some look like they are wound by hand as the wiring is a bit sloppy. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stator-FITS-SUZUKI-LS650-SAVAGE-LS-650-1996-97-98-99-00-01-02-03-2004-Motorcycle-/270997879566?hash=item3f18bb7b0e&vxp=mtr Some look pretty neat like they are machine wound. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stator-Coil-SUZUKI-LS650-SAVAGE-LS-650-96-97-98-99-00-01-02-03-04-GENERATOR-/191455272548?hash=item2c939f9e64&vxp=mtr Unless you are looking for a "project" to spend some time on - most likely it is best to either find a good used one....or take a chance on an aftermarket one......or spend over $ 450 for a factory one! :o |
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Title: Re: Stator question - charging issue Post by Steve H on 04/21/15 at 02:32:01 I was thinking more along the lines of a professional rewinder like and electric motor or alternator shop. I may check a few and get an estimate. But, as you said, that's something for after installing a replacement and getting back to riding. Given that the first one lasted 28 years, I don't know if I'll even bother with getting it rewound. Odds are I won't be around long enough to need another replacement if the replacement lives that long. |
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Title: Re: Stator question - charging issue Post by gobnaitt on 05/15/15 at 11:48:00 I have no problem just my timely tale. So last year my battery seemed to take a bit of time to charge. I just figured it's getting old. I always put it on the tender after a ride. After a nice 2 hour ride in the country I stopped at a friend's place. It wouldn't start. So we charged it up, I got home and the next day went and got a new battery. Well much to my surprise after a couple of short rides I noticed it charging afterwards. I checked the voltage when running and it never changed when revving it. The clymer makes it all seem simple enough. Oil and brakes I can do. But as a woman with basic skills, I went to my local mechanic. He did a couple tests. Checked the voltage coming out of those yellow wires. One had 70 the others were single digits. None even close to 100. I suspect it has been slowly fading for a year or more. I just blamed the battery. He has ordered me a new stator. I will get it replaced next week. It's a 2003 with 23 K. I'll be on the road again soon. |
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Title: Re: Stator question - charging issue Post by Steve H on 05/15/15 at 19:07:56 Hope you get on the road again soon. If I didn't have the little ninja, I'd be going crazy till I get mine fixed. All the voltages checked out on mine. Resistances all check right except, they all connect to chassis ground and shouldn't do that. Apparently when mine gets hot, it starts sending more power to ground. I found that when it's hot, My voltages are lower than when it's cold. My bettery got where it wasn't charging last fall. Voltages measured right and everything so I replaced the regulator. It seemed to work for a while but when it started acting up this time I was experiencing slow charging until it finally lets the battery get low enough to not start it. I'll be glad when I get mine fixed too. I hate to see it sitting there and can't ride it. I do charge the battery once a week and ride it for a couple miles to make sure the carb doesn't gunk up and to keep some oil moved around in the engine. I'm holding off fixing for a while due to other expenses. I'm hoping to run up and say hi to everyone on the early dragon run this year. I'm only about 2.5 hours away. Might just have to ride the ninja if I don't have it fixed by then. |
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Title: Re: Stator question - charging issue Post by gobnaitt on 05/23/15 at 18:22:51 I'm happy to be back on the road. I got the new stator installed last week. A pricey little thing it was too. But it's well worth it to me now. The new happy headlight shines so much brighter than I was used to also. A fresh fill of Rotella and I'm now good for the summer. He showed me the old stator. One of those wrapped copper coil things was totally burned black. And there was another blackened burned spot on it too. |
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