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Message started by raydawg on 03/29/15 at 07:46:38

Title: You never win.........
Post by raydawg on 03/29/15 at 07:46:38

It was a few years ago. I asked on this forum what I should do re: friends, who moved by us after having visited.
Our relationship goes back over two decades.

My wife was a pediatric nurse, and upon her ( Annmarie's ) first new born well check, my wife noticed they lived in the same neighborhood as us.
Our friendship sprung from Annmarie's entry into this life, one might say.

I solicited advice (here) about what I might do regarding Annmarie's broken parole agreement with the state of Nevada, that her parents agreed to, when they brought her here to the island after serving time for robbery ( of relatives ).

Without going into all the ugly details of her drug use ( heroine ) and how they refused to quit enabling her, it matters no more now.....

The coroner left a few hours ago with her body, only 23 years old.

Rob ( her dad ) told me just weeks ago it really should not be anybodies business if someone wants to do drugs. I did not reply, you can't reason with that.

My heart breaks for them this morning after we got a call last night with their frantic voice exclaiming we were needed.

It was too late.

It was treated as a crime scene as no one saw her die.

Better to have her die at home than in some alley, but the results are the same nevertheless.....

She ( Annmarie ) upon return of one of her 3 jail stints ( and that is only in the 2 years she lived here ) she turned on our youngest onto pot.

He didn't like it, came home, and never had anymore association with her after that.
Her parents allowed her to smoke pot, drink booze, and cigarettes, tho it was against her parole.

I can't help but wonder if by relaxing our objections to drug use, are we inadvertently condoning it at the expense of someone who will travel the same road as Annmarie......

I know the arguments, so please refrain, I only pose a question and wonder.

As a weak being I know addictions, the pull, the lies, and the resulting hell, but I knew only one person can change it, me.

It is self medicating, the placing a band-aid over a gaping wound, useless.
The sore will fester and consume your body until death, one way or another.

We live in a society where victimhood seems to exonerate all responsibility, even subsidizing it to a point of enabling.

We have removed, or allowed considerations for absolutes, and then blame the instruments for death and destructions for causing such evil results.

I wish I could fancy a repair and remedy to all, I can't......

My heart breaks, it steals my joy, and I look outward at the things that contribute to demise. I am humane too, I wish answers.

Annmarie, if you are still abounding in this cosmos, I am sorry.
I wish you had shared your demons with others, bringing darkness to light is the only truth that will overcome, as love will conquer hate, in the end.

Peace....

Title: Re: You never win.........
Post by Kris01 on 03/29/15 at 10:07:46

Wow! Sorry for your loss.

Sometimes, even if you step in, there's really nothing that you can do to help. It's only when the person is actively seeking help that they can truly be helped. It's not your fault.

At least she is at peace with her demons now.

Title: Re: You never win.........
Post by raydawg on 03/30/15 at 05:17:34

Is she at peace, or has she come to realize her enteral mistake?

Please, I don't reject your kind intentions and I understand their meaning, but too, this mindset of absolving our actions under the guise of empathy is what prompts me to wonder aloud if relaxing of absolutes has had the exact opposite results that we intended?

I am not placing blame, only asking questions, and armed with the knowledge man will seek comfort before task, I believe we have sold out....

Thank you for your response

Title: Re: You never win.........
Post by Kris01 on 03/30/15 at 17:21:19

I see what you're saying now.

"It takes a village to raise a child."

I agree. If more people took personal responsibility then maybe, just maybe we could make this world a better place. Again, I don't see how anyone else but her could be blamed for her demise. However, I think everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, could do a better job at helping people...even in some small way. Sometimes the small things mean so much and stick with a person.

Once again, sorry for your loss.

Title: Re: You never win.........
Post by verslagen1 on 03/31/15 at 09:41:17

as a son, a brother and a parent, I can not begin to comprehend what sets one on 1 path or another. my parents raised me and my brother. I'm on the sober path, he's dead, liver disease caused by drugs. I can only thank god that my kids are on the sober path and hope they stay that way.

can you select the life they lead? no, you can only give them the tools they use along the way.

I was quite surprised when my son said he was going into oceanography. We don't exactly live by the ocean although it's only an hour away. we've been to all the local aquariums and such. Even had a backstage tour of the Monterrey bay when I went to pick up a m/c. I was turned on by the engineering that went into it. who knows what dreams he had that night.

Title: Re: You never win.........
Post by mpescatori on 04/01/15 at 08:19:04

"She ( Annmarie ) upon return of one of her 3 jail stints ( and that is only in the 2 years she lived here ) she turned on our youngest onto pot.
He didn't like it, came home, and never had anymore association with her after that."

Speaking as a parent, the moment somebody turns a drug on my son, I become one angry sob.

Step 1 is to call the Police.

If that doesn't work, Step 2 is to have an impeccable alibi...

http://m2.paperblog.com/i/140/1407207/mangiato-vivo-dai-suoi-maiali-L-fOuCEA.jpeg

When anyone picks on my family, I'm out of other cheeks...

Title: Re: You never win.........
Post by Art Webb on 04/05/15 at 21:19:22

This is hard to say, I think it's hard for most folks to hear, but as parents people take too much on themselves
A child is an arrow, you want to see make a clean straight flite to their target
Most parents make the mistake of thinking they are they archer: we are not
Call it God, if you believe, Life, if you don't,t or fate, that is the archer
A parent is the bow
Our job is to provide a stable platform from which the arrow can be launched, but we don't ultimately decide where that arrow strikes, that's ultimately not our choice
It took a long time for me to realize my middle stepson is just going to be a substance abuser, no matter what I do
I tried understanding, I tried tough love, i tried everything, nothing worked
So far he hasn't gone so far as heroine and he's semi functional, but eventually he'll either straighten up or he won't, and regardless what I do or don't do that's his choice
I can neither stop him nor will i enable him, and it's simply not my fault, no matter how bad I might want to beat myself up over it
people are going to be who they're going to be, even if that person is self destructive

Title: Re: You never win.........
Post by raydawg on 04/06/15 at 03:52:33

Thank you Art, I love your analogy......

It was a very hard weekend. We had her service on Saturday evening, and then yesterday we had a gathering and sharing in the park.
They asked me to lead and pray, which of course I was more than happy to do.
We all, upon birth, know the price we must pay to journey through this event.....
Knowledge of that might be the trigger for so much searching of an escape from it.
I don't know.
I know I like to try and wrap an understanding around all things, I can't.
Often I default to, " it is what it is" and I leave it at that.....

Thanks.

Title: Re: You never win.........
Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 04/06/15 at 12:04:48

No one knows for sure what the answer is, certainly not I. But I will offer a personal experience, and maybe a thought.
When I was in about the 6th grade, I started running with the wrong crowd ( anyone else old enough to remember the "duck tails" set - that was my crowd ).
We weren't wealthy people; barely middle class, and my parents always lived in a rental house, they never owned a home. One Saturday my Dad said that he and I were going for a ride. We started out in the slum areas of our town, and he pointed out that if I continued to run with the crowd that I was with, this is where I'd spend my life. Next, we drove to "the other side of the tracks", a couple of wealthy suburbs. He said that if I did what he told me, and used my brain, this is where I'd end up living. Choice was mine.

While I'm not a wealthy man, I do live in the nicer section of our area, drive nice cars, even own an airplane. My wife has a very nice business as well.

I think that all too often, parents don't communicate effectively with kids, as much as they may try. My Dad's approach that Saturday was very effective with me.

Lastly, my thought is whether this young lady had any religious aspect to her childhood? While I'm not here to preach, a sound foundation in faith goes a long way toward making a successful person.

Title: Re: You never win.........
Post by raydawg on 04/06/15 at 16:49:56

Thank you Jerry for sharing.
We (have) seemed to succumb to a mentality of comfort, before task.
It is easier to say yes, than no, than to explain out of love, why.....
Kind of like how our politicians offer quit fixes to our economic problems by just raising the debt ceiling.....
It doesn't fix it, just delays the "task" of having to tell folk "no" we can't afford it anymore and must limit the government's ability to provide what some refuse to do....

Re: your last question.
Her mom believes, was raised as such, but dad is a Berkley deadhead and is prolly more agnostic that atheist.
They are very liberal in all their dealings, but no way are they communist/socialist in their leanings.

About faith, I have been thinking a lot about it since this has happened.
I love these people dearly. I do wish they were "saved".
I am not the one to judge them. However, I have seen many who claim faith, yet nothing they do would really witness to that, other than saying they believe.
I can't help but wonder if they use this belief as a way of escaping the fear and uncertainty of death?

Title: Re: You never win.........
Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 04/07/15 at 11:58:46

Faith isn't a way of escaping the fear and uncertainty of death. Rather, to one of true faith, there is no fear nor uncertainty. Maybe a fear of the physical pain associated with some deaths, like the person who lingers with cancer pain, which is some cases is so severe that it can only be relieved with being "knocked out", can still afflict a person of true faith, but there isn't a fear of the death itself.
Again, without getting on a pulpit, my basic problem with evangelical Protestantism is the idea that just believing is all it takes to achieve salvation.
As Catholics, we believe that faith without works is dead, so just "believing" doesn't cut it. Your faith needs to be coupled with works which demonstrate your faith.

Title: Re: You never win.........
Post by Art Webb on 04/07/15 at 18:45:45

Jerry, sounds like you had a good bow :)
My dad was pretty cool, too, when I ever saw him (he wasn't derelict, just the opposite, he near killed himself trying to make a decent life for us)
He supported me in my dreams, while keeping me grounded in reality, and let me find my own way, while showing me the paths available
I wish I'd listened better, and learned sooner
Interesting how the older I get, the smarter he was