|
SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Engine gasket help /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1427030863 Message started by jeffsavage on 03/22/15 at 06:27:43 |
|
Title: Engine gasket help Post by jeffsavage on 03/22/15 at 06:27:43 i just bought an 18 piece gasket set for my 95 savage. Head gasket was shot so I'm replacing all the gaskets I can. Problem is, all these smaller o rings(one orange one), and four cap like pieces with circle springs recessed into top...have no idea where they go haha can't find a guide anywhere online. Sure I would find them if I looked and dug into the bike enough, but would greatly appreciate some tips/pointers from those who have already done this job. Thanks! |
|
Title: Re: Engine gasket help Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/22/15 at 06:47:30 And how did you determine the head gasket was bad? Got the head off? Did you clean the grit and crud from around the spark plug before removing it? Year model, miles, basic information, symptoms, experience as mechanic, |
|
Title: Re: Engine gasket help Post by Dave on 03/22/15 at 06:48:25 If you are taking the bike apart (obviously), you just need to replace the gaskets that you encounter on the way. An awful lot of those gaskets and seals may be for the the internal parts you may never get to...like the oil pump, transmission shift linkage, etc. I know some of the O-rings fit in between the center cases to keep oil from coming our around screws that hold the case together. The 4 rubber pieces with internal springs.....most likely are valve seals. They go on the valve stems, and you can't get to them unless you remove the valve springs. |
|
Title: Re: Engine gasket help Post by jeffsavage on 03/22/15 at 07:04:08 I determined the head gasket was bad judging by all the oil seeping out from around where it sits in the engine. I took the engine mounts off, pulled the engine and started breaking down the engine from top to bottom(carefully laying all parts in order that they came out). I have cleaned the engine maticulously, cleaned all the crud from everything( there was a lot due to leaky head gasket). 95 Suzuki savage,190k runs great, just leaking oil from obvious spots. Have wrenched in a few trucks and cars/trucks of mine over the years and have done a lot of small jobs to the savage. Took this on because I saw I could do it, and enjoy learning more about my bike and in general, just like being in the garage. Figured a lot of these o rings I wouldn't be able to get to. Just wanted to see if there wasn't something I was missing. Is there a special tool for removing valve springs? |
|
Title: Re: Engine gasket help Post by Dave on 03/22/15 at 07:30:55 Well, if it was a weepy oil issue....most likely it was the rubber head plug and not the head gasket. That rubber plug that goes over the right front cylinder stud did not have any sealant on it when it left the factory....and unfortunately it will leak eventually. You should be a new one, and apply the proper (Suzuki Bond, YamaBond, Hondabond or Three bond)....it is preferable to the over the counter RTV gasket sealants. On occasion the nuts/studs that are directly under the intake and exhaust ports can week some oil as well if they come loose. You should apply a bit of sealer to those when you install the washers and nuts. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1099227295 |
|
Title: Re: Engine gasket help Post by Dave on 03/22/15 at 08:37:06 190K....typing error? Miles or Kilometers? You may be honored by going into the Savage Hall of Fame! |
|
Title: Re: Engine gasket help Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/22/15 at 13:22:17 Runs great, blown head gasket, hmmm... Wait till you get there and discover that was not the problem. The common problem is an oil leak often diagnosed as a head gasket. One guy recently paid for it... but best I can tell, never saw the old gasket. I suspect the dealer fixed the leak, and charged for the head gasket job.. Why do people dive in, THEN ask questions? |
|
Title: Re: Engine gasket help Post by pgambr on 03/22/15 at 14:42:47 Evidently, I'm may be mistaken. I didn't think we had a head gasket. I thought we used a thin bead of RTV or perhaps something of higher quality. Could someone elaborate? Best regards, |
|
Title: Re: Engine gasket help Post by verslagen1 on 03/22/15 at 14:52:13 we have a head gasket, we don't have a head cover gasket. |
|
Title: Re: Engine gasket help Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/22/15 at 15:11:42 Head cover comes off to access the cam. Just a bead of goo for the gasket up there, and it determines the spacing for the cam bearings. Getting it even and thin matters. Kinda surprised that they did it that way. |
|
Title: Re: Engine gasket help Post by pgambr on 03/22/15 at 15:29:08 233C3A3D20271626162E3C307B490 wrote:
That is my understanding as well. Why doesn't Suzuki use a preformed/cut gasket like on the clutch cover gasket? It just seems a lot simpler. Best regards, |
|
Title: Re: Engine gasket help Post by Dave on 03/23/15 at 02:45:26 647375797666140 wrote:
That is my understanding as well. Why doesn't Suzuki use a preformed/cut gasket like on the clutch cover gasket? It just seems a lot simpler. Best regards,[/quote] Because the head cover is also the upper half of the cam bearings. It is a machined fit....just like the crankcase halves. The pieces need to be stuck tightly together....so the clearances are proper for the cam bearings. |
|
Title: Re: Engine gasket help Post by gizzo on 03/23/15 at 04:27:16 I've never seen a Savage with a blown head gasket (well the only Savage I've seen is my one...) but worked on plenty of other thumpers and changes a lot of blown head gaskets. On a big single, when it's leaking, you know about it. Makes a terrible noise, just like there's compression escaping the cylinder. funny, that. Often they'd run fine at idle but all goes bad when the throttle's cracked open. The Red hand grenade model Honda XR250 was bad for it- head bolts would pull free for no obvious reason, gasket leaks, compression blows onto your pants. Nice. But anyway if the heads off, it's off. Put it back together with the same gaskets that came out, you'll be fine. The valve springs, can generally get them off with a hammer and socket, but you need the special tool to get 'em back on again ;) An old guy I used to work for swore that spraying the steel gaskets with silver frost spray paint made them seal more reliably, but I dunno about that one..... Happy engine building, buddy. |
|
Title: Re: Engine gasket help Post by Dave on 03/23/15 at 04:46:45 766C686A6B55647771776C616260050 wrote:
The new head gasket already has a coating..it is not bare copper. I would not add anything...just make sure the mating surfaces are smooth,, clean, and free of oil or grease. |
|
Title: Re: Engine gasket help Post by gizzo on 03/23/15 at 04:54:51 I actually made a copper head gasket for my own XR back then,now you mention it. Worked great. I needed a thicker gasket because the head had been decked too far after it had been repaired. |
|
Title: Re: Engine gasket help Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/23/15 at 05:09:12 No way would I rerun a head gasket. Not because I wouldn't EXPECT it to work, but because of the hassle if it didn't. Look up Cost benefit analysis |
|
Title: Re: Engine gasket help Post by jeffsavage on 03/29/15 at 20:43:47 - So 190k means 190 x 1000, which equals 190,000 miles. What wasn't there to understand? Was definitely the head gasket btw. Faulty runner head plug for sure too. Replaced it and sealed it with suzukibond. Head gasket had leaked though...Burt oil underneath the edges that ran out all the way under the seal. Feel like I have done a pretty good job so far, with doing the research and asking questions..although it seems a few on here want to belittle someone trying to learn ad do things right. I'm not an idiot, I took it apart and have it back together (other than cam chain, need to make sure before I seal it up I have it in time correctly). I appreciate the help and advice I've gotten on here, but there's no need to be rude and disrespectful to people asking for help. Thanks |
|
Title: Re: Engine gasket help Post by gizzo on 03/30/15 at 01:15:23 Don't take it to heart, jeff. I think it's just taken a lot of people by surprise that A: you have a blown head gasket, because that's just really uncommon on these engines, and B: that someone (a super hero no doubt) has ridden a Savage 190,000 miles. The Cabbage's odometer only goes to 99,000 anyway so you'd have to rely on the PO's say so that it had been around the clock. Holy carp, that's some achievement, and 19,000 miles would be more what you'd expect. So they're just looking for confirmation. Good work on the rebuild so far, hope the cam timing goes smoothly. cheers and kind regards, simon |
|
Title: Re: Engine gasket help Post by Dave on 03/30/15 at 03:25:40 516A6770616D76706B636E71020 wrote:
727D7E7E7B6A776B6B180 wrote:
Sorry to have asked a reasonable question that irritated you for some reason. My question was not rude in any way.....and even complimentary as I indicated that you most likely would be eligible to enter the Savage Hall of Fame. You did not list if you live in an area that measures in miles or kilometers, and your profile doesn't indicate what country or state you live in. We have members on this forum from all over the world.....and your stated 190,000 miles could have been kilometers....which would have been about 118,000 miles....and 120,000 miles is the most we have recorded on this forum to date. It is not uncommon for a new member to come onto the forum and claim to have a head gasket leak....however in the entire time this forum has been in existence there has never been a documented head gasket failure. The rubber plug fails at some point on every bike....and the leaky oil runs around the cylinder head and causes most folks (and even mechanics) to blame the perfectly intact head gasket. When we question your cylinder head leak - we are trying to help you avoid the unnecessary replacement of the head gasket...when most likely the cause is the rubber head plug. It takes a while for us to figure out the mechanical knowledge and abilities of any new member. You established a somewhat lower level of understanding when you stated: 6A65666663726F7373000 wrote:
A new member that doesn't recognize the four cap like pieces with circle springs recessed into the top are "valve seals".....is admitting that they have never had a cylinder head apart. Have a nice day. :) |
|
Title: Re: Engine gasket help Post by jeffsavage on 03/30/15 at 05:37:46 Wow, I had totally taken that the wrong way. I apologize, I have been edge as of late. Everyone has been very helpful thus far as it is greatly appreciated. Will post pics of the completed job and odometer once it's all back together. Thanks again |
|
Title: Re: Engine gasket help Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/30/15 at 05:50:56 Well, alllritee then. So now, after being here for about 9 years and seeing countless newbies report oil leaking and the head gasket on this low compression engine blown, we actually Have one.. Was it split? Any pics? Timing is not hard, just scary. Being wrong is just not funny. You will nail it, just make sure that the piston stays at TDC while you're dinking with the cam and chain. Check the dots alignment before torquing the cam gear. |
|
SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |