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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> turbo anyone? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1426080878 Message started by jordan650 on 03/11/15 at 06:34:38 |
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Title: turbo anyone? Post by jordan650 on 03/11/15 at 06:34:38 im very interested in putting a turbo on my 96' 650. has anyone done this or have any information on it? Would I have to do other performance upgrades to do this or could it be just a expensive bolt on piece? |
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Title: Re: turbo anyone? Post by Gary_in_NJ on 03/11/15 at 08:05:17 A turbo on an air cooled motorcycle...not a good idea...but it's been done. The problem with a turbo on an air cooled engine is there isn't enough oil capacity to cool the bearings in the turbo AND keep the engine cool. It would require an external oil tank with a rather large capacity. Oil cooled turbos need to be kept cool, otherwise the bearings get coked. That is why modern turbos are typically air/oil cooled. For all of the plumbing and expense, you might be better served just buying a larger bike...or shoehorning a larger engine into your LS650. Or just go with high-compression piston and other bolt-ons. |
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Title: Re: turbo anyone? Post by Dave on 03/11/15 at 08:39:23 No Turbo for me.... If you want a bike that has a bit more power - while still has simplicity and reliability....then you need to do engine upgrades to the piston, cam, cylinder head, muffler, header, carb. (Or the cheaper and easier route is to just buy a bigger and faster motorcycle). If you want a complicated project, a bike that is more to work on or look at then it is to ride, then you could try to install a turbo. As Gary said...the stock oil system on this bike cannot handle the additional oil flow (or cooling) that a turbo needs....you would need to add an additional oil pump for the turbo, and it can't be electric as the bike doesn't have enough capacity to run additional electric components. And.....it is not just an expensive bolt on piece. You will pretty much be on your own to design and fabricate it. The Savage engine is primitive....it does not have a knock sensor, fuel injection, oxygen sensor...or any of those things that modern fuel injected cars have that can adapt to a bolt on turbo kit. There is no computer that can take readings from various sensors and adjust the fuel and timing to compensate for what is going on in the engine, and the engine most likely will run poorly or self destruct unless you spend a lot of time tuning and adapting things. Here is a link to Savagebob's 1.5 year supercharger thread. It is no easier than a turbo, and in the time he has been working on it I have ridden my bike 6,000 miles. Do you want to spend time in the garage....or on the bike riding? (sorry Bob). http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1372223359/0 |
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Title: Re: turbo anyone? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/11/15 at 09:49:14 If you wanna go Deep Tinkering either get another engine or bike and mess with it. You can ride or tinker. |
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Title: Re: turbo anyone? Post by koehlerrk on 03/11/15 at 11:31:09 67787E7964635262526A78743F0D0 wrote:
Which is why I'm doing upgrades to my 87 to make it as bomb-proof as possible... because I'd rather ride. |
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Title: Re: turbo anyone? Post by Rylee on 03/11/15 at 11:46:03 Though I've never turbo'd an air cooled bike I own a turbo'd air cooled vw bug an like Dave said its a lot of work. With no electronics tuning is a constant issue. With the bug I had the luxury of a larger sump, electronic ignition upgrade and the room to pipe in an intercooler. Even with all of that I can honestly say I spend more time adjusting stuff then I do driving it. But I can say this for all of the time fabricating, changing parts and tuning when she's right there's no better feeling than spooling up in a car that was never designed to be boosted. Just know it's a huge project and if you can't perform at least 80% of the fab and build work yourself make sure your checkbook is very healthy. Even with so e readily available fab parts and my ability to build I still had to outsource a bunch of stuff. And in the end I gave up and found a shop to do the fine tuning. |
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Title: Re: turbo anyone? Post by jordan650 on 03/12/15 at 05:42:53 thanks for the help guys. I think im just going to stay away from the turbo, it was just a thought. |
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Title: Re: turbo anyone? Post by Dave on 03/12/15 at 06:23:13 4045584E4B441C1F1A2A0 wrote:
Until you get to a very advanced state of mechanical aptitude...it is better to stay with proven upgrades. Until piston/cam/intake/exhaust changes and carb jetting become second nature to you.....you should stay away from the PHD level projects. |
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Title: Re: turbo anyone? Post by Gary_in_NJ on 03/12/15 at 06:27:35 Dave's suggestion of a high compression piston, cam, ported head, and performance exhaust will probably get you to where you want to be. A stock 650 will dyno around 26hp and I believe that the aforementioned mods will get you into 40hp range. That's a 50% improvement. After my bike is sorted out and it gets torn down for painting, I'll be upgrading my engine as per Dave's suggestion. |
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Title: Re: turbo anyone? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/12/15 at 06:48:50 There are guys here who have got theirs hopped up and based on my experience and riding ability on a stock chassis powered by a slightly modified engine, I would venture to guess that our guys here have got the bikes power up to about the end of usable.. IMO the chassis, handling,braking all combined just aren't really suited for much more power than what they have been able to squeeze out using the more low tech approach. |
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Title: Re: turbo anyone? Post by savagebob on 04/06/15 at 16:32:27 I was looking at a turbo originally, even found a suitable size turbo to fit up. However, as been mentioned, I came up against the major hurdle of how to cool the turbo without an adequate internal oil system, and without adequate electrical charge to run an external oil system. So I went with the supercharger, and whist it has been a lot of work. It wasn't that hard to do really. Dave makes it sound like I've spent 1.5 years working on it for no gain which isn't true. It took me 1.5 years to build the entire bike, not just the supercharger system. Now I ride it everyday to work and it's awesome. If I was a mechanic or knew more about tuning bikes it would have been easier, but hey, great way to learn right? My thoughts were that the gains/$ ratio working up the 650 just didn't seem worthwhile and bolting on the power seemed like better bang for your buck. That said, it is a lot of work getting it right.. there has been a lot of trail and error with it but tinkering in the garage is part of the fun for me. |
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Title: Re: turbo anyone? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/06/15 at 17:06:48 How about some pics? Zero to sixty times? What's the top end? I got close to six seconds, and ONE DAY I hit the ton. Carbs are sensitive to temperature and humidity... What kinda boost is it making? Need premium? Ooookay, I found that other post... |
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Title: Re: turbo anyone? Post by Dave on 04/06/15 at 17:55:31 465443545250575A57350 wrote:
I didn't mean to pick on you - but most folks think that bolting on a turbo kit is simple and easy and foolproof. Buy the kit and be back on the bike after a weekend. I couldn't talk my nephew out of buying a turbo kit for his brand new Camaro V-6....and 2 weeks after he paid to have a performance shop put it in the turbo seal went out, later it was the clutch, then later again it was the second gear synchro. He had to sell the car in less than 6 months to get something he could actually drive. I just did't want anyone to get in over his head.....and end up without any bike to ride. |
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Title: Re: turbo anyone? Post by savagebob on 04/06/15 at 20:03:32 I hear ya Dave. I think any serious performance mods are time consuming/difficult/expensive (pick two). I looked at doing an all out n/a motor vs boosting vs fitting a larger/better motor. I actually was pretty keen on trying to stick a DR650 motor in. But simply couldn't find one available for a reasonable price. I thought I'd give the boost a go since nobody else seems to have tried it. But I know what you are saying, it's definately not simple. I signed over my soul to the bike gods devoting a lot of garage tinker time with no guarantee of success. I did have aspirations to prove this a viable performance route and maybe supply kits to others who want to take the same journey. But I realised apart from the SC drive shaft & bearing cover the rest of it has been too piece-meal to replicate in multiple quantities. :-/ |
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