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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
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Message started by savage_skulls_ on 02/27/15 at 23:29:55

Title: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by savage_skulls_ on 02/27/15 at 23:29:55

Ok guys this may have already been asked and I'm a bit of a noob... but here goes. I've got an 03 savage and just broke the 5000 mile marker yesterday. Rode it home fine from work then back to store. Tried going out to start it later and it won't start. Killed the battery trying. It's also hard to move it from neutral to first now. I noticed toward the end of the battery that my clutch cable is frayed. Could this be the culprit?

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by 1st2know on 02/28/15 at 00:10:12

Does the headlight come on? Full bright?
How did it behave when you were trying to start it? (lights dim, starter cranks, grunting noise)

Check to make sure the clutch is disengaged, kickstand down, in neutral.

Charge the battery. You may have to take the battery out to charge it (or at least expose it from the right side). Do you have multi-meter?

The clutch cable is frayed? By the lever or on the engine? Does the clutch lever operate freely, normally?

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/28/15 at 00:22:35

5,000 miles and the clutch cable is messed up? Where? Can you see any reason for that?

Get the battery out,check water level, if low, fill with distilled, a good light behind the battery,to see the level, a fat syringe to fill it. If it's old, just get a new one,, Big Crank is a favorite among the Old Cranks who hang here.
How long have you had it and how many miles did you put on it?
It's 12 years old,, 5,000 miles... no telling how old the tires are,battery,
Where do you live? First bike?

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by savage_skulls_ on 02/28/15 at 06:04:27

I live in Arkansas. Yes it's my 1st bike that I have had to maintain. I've ridden bikes since I was about 14 but always family members, friends, etc... I've put about 400 miles on it. It's frayed right at the lever. Just two or three wires look like they've come loose. I've got short arms and installed a driver backrest yesterday before going to the store and had my backpack on so couldn't really lean forward. I'm guessing the different angle I was pulling on the clutch lever attributed to the fraying. The headlights and everything were strong when I first started cranking it. I kept trying different things to start it though, with the way the weather has been. I've tried it with the choke all the way out, choke in, in neutral, in 1st. Noticed the fraying when I tried it in 1st and it was kind of hard to get it in 1st and it was trying to roll forward while I was trying it in 1st. I know I shouldn't have kept trying but I had to get to work and it's fired right up with no problems the last 4 months. After about 20 minutes is when my battery was starting to get weak. I've had to pull the clutch all the way in while starting it whether in 1st or neutral since having it and it seems it's not going all the way in now. Just put gas in it yesterday so I don't think it's out of gas. I wasn't able to open the cap though because it was too frozen for the key to go all the way in. It was 28 degrees and had been fairly humid with little spats of freezing rain and snow here and there but nothing sticking. Thing is though she fired right up that morning with the choke out at 23 degrees with the same conditions. So that's all I can think it could be. Just needing a more experienced opinion. Thank you guys for replying

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by savage_skulls_ on 02/28/15 at 06:19:32

Just to add to that. I know the battery is dead now. But she's seemed to have a strong one this whole time. I'm going to have to charge it. Battery may be old though. She was an older mans' wife's bike and she didn't like riding which is why I got it at a good price for less than 5000 miles. He had changed the tires, oil, belt (just to be safe since she's been a garage queen), spark plugs, rear brakes, and spark plug. He was going to chop it but all he got done was put a short pipe on and boy is she LOUD! Thinking she needs to be rejetted still because she backfires a lot

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by Serowbot on 02/28/15 at 07:24:56

584A5D4A4C4E435F582B0 wrote:

Just put gas in it yesterday so I don't think it's out of gas.

Replace the gas with fresh... You may have put in diesel... or just some bad gas...
Unlike modern cars, our filler hole will accept diesel or gas fuel nozzles...
It has happened here, more than once...

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by verslagen1 on 02/28/15 at 08:27:46

485A4D5A5C5E534F483B0 wrote:

It's also hard to move it from neutral to first now. I noticed toward the end of the battery that my clutch cable is frayed. Could this be the culprit?

a frayed cable won't keep the bike from starting.

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by verslagen1 on 02/28/15 at 08:42:32

3D2F382F292B263A3D4E0 wrote:

I've got short arms and installed a driver backrest yesterday before going to the store and had my backpack on so couldn't really lean forward.

any chance you'll pulled something loose?

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by verslagen1 on 02/28/15 at 08:46:15

4153445355575A4641320 wrote:

Just put gas in it yesterday so I don't think it's out of gas. I wasn't able to open the cap though because it was too frozen for the key to go all the way in. It was 28 degrees and had been fairly humid with little spats of freezing rain and snow here and there but nothing sticking. Thing is though she fired right up that morning with the choke out at 23 degrees with the same conditions.

I'm thinking you picked up some water in the gas and it's sitting in the carb.
drain the carb, charge the bat and give 'er a go.

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by Oldfeller on 02/28/15 at 09:28:12

2032253234363B2720530 wrote:

Odd thing about our ignition module is it WILL NOT PRODUCE A SPARK if the battery isn't fully charged.

Your first step is to FULLY CHARGE THE BATTERY then keep a volt ohm meter on the battery terminals while you crank the bike and tell us what voltage it drops down to.

If it gets below 11 volts when cranking the starter motor -- then you may possibly get zero spark out of the black box to the spark plug to ignite the fuel.

A good battery, well charged, maintains over 12 volts when you hit the starter button, and everything works like it is supposed to.

This low cranking voltage thing has driven a lot of guys nuts over the years .....

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by oldNslow on 02/28/15 at 09:52:52

Quote:

I've tried it ... in 1st. ... it was kind of hard to get it in 1st and it was trying to roll forward while I was trying it in 1st.

Just leave it in neutral when you try to crank it. Trying to start it in gear isn't going to help, especially when it's cold and the clutch is dragging because the oil isn't warm.

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by cafecarl on 02/28/15 at 10:55:01

This low cranking voltage thing has driven a lot of guys nuts over the years .....[/quote]

Me... more times then I want to admit.
Weak battery=weak or no spark.
Add in the cold weather. Cold is when you want everything working for you. Cold mornings are when the lines form at the battery stores around here.

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by savage_skulls_ on 02/28/15 at 12:15:11

Thanks a lot for the help everyone. I'll give these suggestions a go and let you know what I find out. I've had to pull the clutch in to start every time which is what made me think that may have been what caused the issue here. Either way I'll need it replaced. I definitely didn't put any diesel in. I'm sure to only select premium gas and just treated it with an ounce of gas treatment for ethanol after reading it will gunk up the carbs. There aren't many "ethanol free" gas stations around here so I've gotta take what I can get. I hope to read more and post more as I get to know my bike better! :-) Just gotta get brave enough to trust myself with my own mechanical skills.lol I usually do well when I break down and give her a go but always second guess myself thinking I'm about to screw something up. Anything I should stay away from and just leave up to the pros?

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by Oldfeller on 02/28/15 at 12:21:38

Hey, how 'bout you charge up that battery good and tell us what sort of cranking volts you are getting when you try to fire it up. You do own a volt ohm meter and a battery charger, right?

This will tell us if the battery itself is any good (nice to know, don't you think?).

People can "guess" all they want to and run you around the maypole all they want to, but until you start posting back THAT YOU HAVE REMOVED THE MAJOR KNOWN CAUSES you are just talking to be talking.

And we are all just talking back just to be talking ..... and we should know better.

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by savage_skulls_ on 02/28/15 at 13:33:48

Haha. I hear you there old feller. I sure don't :-/. That's definitely an investment I'm gonna need to make! Like I said earlier I'm a bit of a noob. Don't seem to know my a** from a hole in the ground when it comes to maintaining my own ride. I've ridden all my adult life. 1st thing I learned how to drive was a bike. But, that doesn't help me when I get down to the nuts and bolts. I'm sure I'll pick it up quick as I know my way around a car engine. These are definitely a different kind of beast though. A buddy of mine is coming by with one later on and my roommate has a charger I'll be able to use while I wait for him. I'll let you guys know how it turns out and I'm sure I'll be asking for more input later on. May even start another thread on some mod ideas later on today while I'm twiddling my thumbs with no ride.lol

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/28/15 at 13:52:48

Start in Neutral, less load on the starter..I think,, There is certainly no benefit to first gear. Sidestand up, just in case there is a problem with the safety interlock.
Don't pull the plug without blowing the dirt out of the cavity it sits in.

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by savage_skulls_ on 02/28/15 at 16:01:40

Ok. Update. I did get the battery charged. Took no time at all so I must not have drained it all the way. After adjusting my clutch wire for shits and giggles and..... sure enough she started to sputter and nearly started then *snap* another wire pops. Also, I tried hitting the start button, while in neutral, without engaging the clutch and nothing. Just like I never hit the button at all... So I've narrowed it down and it's definitely the clutch wire. Now I guess I should start a new thread about why in the h*** my bike won't start in neutral without engaging the clutch if that's not a normal thing. This bites. I just got promoted to gm at the motel I work at and I'm back to taxis and the bus until at least the middle of next week :-/. Thank you guys for the advice. See you in the next thread.lol

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by Steve H on 02/28/15 at 16:06:00

There is a clutch interlock. You can't start the bike without pulling the clutch handle. It doesn't care if the clutch actually works but you have to pull the handle.

You can bypass the interlock if you wish. Check the tech section. I'm sure it's there. I don't remember if the switch is NO or NC. The switch is mounted to the bottom of the clutch lever.

Remember the interlock is there to prevent you from starting the bike in gear and causing damage to yourself, the bike, whatever is around you.

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by oldNslow on 02/28/15 at 16:51:09

Quote:

why in the h*** my bike won't start in neutral without engaging the clutch if that's not a normal thing

Well, Steve H beat me to it but I'm gonna repeat it anyway. It's normal to have to pull the clutch lever in to get the bike to start. The Savage, and a lot of other bikes, are made that way.

You need to get yourself an owners manual I think. It might save you some grief. There is a link to one you can download in the tech section, but I'm not positive that it still works.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1138554254

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by oldNslow on 02/28/15 at 16:56:57

http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/transfer/2002_LS650P_Owners_Manual.pdf

This one works, I tried it. Page 27 explains the safety interlocks.

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by savage_skulls_ on 02/28/15 at 17:07:52

I was thinking it was normal. But people were saying the clutch wouldn't have anything to do with that if you read through the other replys.. With my clutch wire tearing up it will not fully engage. And will not turn over when it's not fully engaged. So that was the culprit. I really appreciate everyone's input and definitely appreciate the owners manual download! Thanks!!! There's no one in town with a clutch wire.... it's gonna take the dealership until Wednesday or Thursday to get it. So I may be better off ordering one online with overnight shipping. Anyone have any ideas where I could do so?

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by KennyG on 02/28/15 at 17:30:07

Skulls,

Generally speaking, most of the online dealers have very little or no inventory. They order your parts from Suzuki and then ship them to you when they receive them.

Usually the local dealer will order the parts from Suzuki the day you place your order and then call you when they arrive. Buying from the dealers in my area usually cuts about 3 or 4 days off of the wait time.

Kenny G

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by oldNslow on 02/28/15 at 17:59:38

Here's one place: Part # 4 on the diagram

http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/2000-suzuki-savage-650-ls650p/o/m147741#sch238425

I don't know what year your bike is so I just put in 2000 to do the search. Change that on the website to whatever year your bike is and make sure the cable is the right one. I think that when Suzuki changed the handelbars from buckhorns to drag bars they might have changed the cable length.

When you pull the clutch lever you are disengaging the clutch not engaging it. The clutch is engaged when your hand is off the lever. But that has nothing to do with the interlock switch. That switch - assuming that it's working correctly; and it sounds like yous is - will function even if the clutch cable is disconnected from the lever or completely broken.

You definitely need a new clutch cable if yours is starting to fray, but I'm not convinced that that has anything to do with your bike not starting. If you can pull the clutch lever until it touches the handelbar with the bike in neutral, then push the start switch, and the starter spins the motor over but the motor doesn't start then your problem has nothing to do with the clutch cable.

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/28/15 at 19:09:19

Clutch cable segments are breaking just sitting there?
How tight is that cable?

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by T.Claiborne13 on 03/01/15 at 14:38:17

I got my clutch cable from http://www.bikebandit.com/ it didn't take long to get to me. Mine started frying about a week after I got it in May2014 and broke in December after trying to start it in about 20 degrees weather

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by savage_skulls_ on 03/01/15 at 18:22:29

Thanks for the links and advice. Think I'm just gonna go to the dealership. The guy that runs the place is really cool with me so I get a decent enough discount. They're gonna order it for less than 30. Was just hoping for something next day. So will riding regularly in below freezing weather cause the cable to go out faster than normal? I'm sure spending the majority of her 12 year life in a garage has a lot to do with it as well

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/02/15 at 00:59:16

5A454344595E6F5F6F57454902300 wrote:

Clutch cable segments are breaking just sitting there?
How tight is that cable?

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by Dave on 03/02/15 at 03:40:14

When you put the new cable on - be sure that both adjusting nuts are "above" the mount on the engine. One nut makes the adjustment and the other nut locks it in place.

"DO NOT" put one nut on top and one on the bottom of the bracket, that can break off the mount, and it is not an easy fix.

This is a photo I grabbed off the internet to show how the cable nuts should be placed. On this bike they have blocked off the speedometer drive with a brass nut...you will have a speedometer cable in that location.

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by savage_skulls_ on 03/07/15 at 20:18:42

Wanted to update everyone and tell you guys thank you, thank you, thank you. Your advice along with all the technical discussions posted in other threads got me back in the saddle without pissin away all my hard earned money at the "stealership" I hear everyone refer to it as. They did give me a great deal on the parts though. The parts manager at the one here in town is really cool with me and hooks me up with a great discount every time I get something. I get anywhere from 10-40% off the list price so can't complain. With all of your help I was able to get the battery tested, changed out with a new 1 after finding out it was shot and 12 years old!!! I changed the plug out that was burnt to a crisp, new air filter, got the tank off without having to remove the petcock, and changed out the oil and filter. All this in an hour and a half from a noob that's never turned a wrench on a bike with everyone on this forums' help. You guys rock!!!! I will continue to frequent here. Now just gotta grab that new clutch cable tomorrow and give it a shot. Anything I should know about swapping that out?

Title: Re: Help please! Won't start and it's my only ride
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/08/15 at 13:18:24

So, how did you clean out where the plug sits?