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Message started by jorge__mendez on 02/08/15 at 20:04:18

Title: re positioning carb
Post by jorge__mendez on 02/08/15 at 20:04:18

I have seen some bobbers with a carb cone filter showing to the side instead of the center/inside position. How is that done? I appreciate the input as always!

Title: Re: re positioning carb
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/08/15 at 21:08:25

Some use a 90, some use a T, and hang 2 filters. You're gonna hafta get creative..

Title: Re: re positioning carb
Post by jorge__mendez on 02/08/15 at 21:14:03

7B646265787F4E7E4E76646823110 wrote:

Some use a 90, some use a T, and hang 2 filters. You're gonna hafta get creative..

What difference does it make if you use a T or just a 90

Title: Re: re positioning carb
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/08/15 at 21:18:31

A 90 uses 1 filter, a T uses 2,,

Title: Re: re positioning carb
Post by jorge__mendez on 02/08/15 at 21:21:51

27383E3924231222122A38347F4D0 wrote:

A 90 uses 1 filter, a T uses 2,,

lol i meant, difference in terms of performance ::)

Title: Re: re positioning carb
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/08/15 at 23:47:40

IMO, Getting rid of the stock filter is a bad idea performance wise.

Title: Re: re positioning carb
Post by Dave on 02/09/15 at 04:00:01

Adding a cone filter most likely doesn't do much of anything to increase performance. If you are buying a small one that fits between the battery box and carb....it most likely will have less filter area than the stock filter, and it creates turbulence in the intake tract. A nice straight section of tubing leading up to the carb works better.....and the stock system has rubber tube that serves that purpose pretty well. It you were to leave the rubber tube in place and install a higher flow filter in place of the stock one....well you might see a marginal change. The CV carb, cylinder head, low compression piston, mild cam timing, restrictive exhaust and stock muffler don't really provide for much performance.

The best bang for you dollars and labor is to re-jet the carb, and install a DYNA muffler.

Title: Re: re positioning carb
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/09/15 at 04:56:20

Dave laid it all out. And,if you'll do some research on intake theory and step back and apply what you already know from being alive,, IF the volume between filter element and carb is equal to or greater than the volume of the cylinder, then the piston doesn't hafta drag all the air through a filter, because it's already through it, now, carrying that idea further, a guy Could tune an intake for an RPM range,, it'd be weird looking, but it should work. I noticed a box built into the air tube that feeds the air filter on a car the other day, I'm sure that they have a good reason for including it.

Title: Re: re positioning carb
Post by jorge__mendez on 02/09/15 at 05:49:11

63585542535F444259515C43300 wrote:

Dave, my whole idea besides keeping a good performance on my bike is to have the look i want for the bike and not worry about the performance of it.

This is what im going for. I want to get rid of the side panels and have sides open and fit a small oil tank (this is for the looks of the bike).

NOW, performance wise. For me to put the oil tank i need to get rid of the air box, so that means I would need a cone filter for my carb. Is there ANY way I could keep the performance of the stock filter with only using a cone filter? MAYBE using a bigger filter and modifying the chasis a bit? or maybe using a longer tube between the cone and the carb?

I have a Dyna muffler ready to mount but I am still working on certain parts and the frame before I send the frame to powder coat. I just want to have everything situated before I move forward with this project bike.

Title: Re: re positioning carb
Post by Dave on 02/09/15 at 06:02:07

Mount the filter on the end of the rubber tube that is currently on the bike and keep as long of an inlet between the carb inlet and filter as possible, and the filter as large as possible. The filter would be up under the seat a bit.....unless you are installing a small solo seat down on the frame, and the you would have to drop the filter down a bit.

I was only able to keep about half of the rubber tube, as I have a really long foam filter on mine. I do have side panels however....and then everything is hidden from view.

I was at a bike show on Saturday night in Cincinnati. There were a lot of interesting bikes there - but it was obvious that a lot of them are barely able to be ridden....and were just done for looks and performance and comfort meant little. A few of them had really low seats, really high footpegs, and the handlebars waaaay out front......it was no surprise that the tires still had the molding nubs on them.

Title: Re: re positioning carb
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 02/09/15 at 06:24:58

Jorge,

Since the oil tank won't be functional, why not convert it into an airbox. You could conceal the piping on top of the tank where it can't be seen because it's obstructed by the seat, and place the air inlet opening on the bottom of the tank.

Then you would have something that looks cool and is very functional.

Title: Re: re positioning carb
Post by jorge__mendez on 02/09/15 at 07:47:20

2D272329222B2F26787E7A4A0 wrote:

That sounds cool. How would something like that would be done? What are the things i would have to take in consideration to make it functional?

Title: Re: re positioning carb
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 02/09/15 at 08:57:00

Post a photo of the tank you want to use and I'm sure the ideas will flow...

Title: Re: re positioning carb
Post by Dave on 02/09/15 at 09:21:07

The old Honda S90 and a few other bikes used a round cylinder looking air cleaner. One half was the filter, and the other had allowed the air to flow in.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-S90-AIR-CLEANER-FILTER-HOUSING-S-CL-90-64-69-17221-028-040Z-OEM-/121523337570?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c4b5af962&vxp=mtr

Obviously the air flow of a 90cc engine is not adequate for a 650 - but is does show how they did it. I am not sure if they used a similar system on the larger bikes back then....but at the time Honda didn't make anything more than a 450cc bike.

Title: Re: re positioning carb
Post by jorge__mendez on 02/09/15 at 09:43:07

The oil tank i have is not a cylinder, its a round tank that looks like those ACME bombs. Is there a way to place the battery laying flat instead of standing up? And use the extra space?

Title: Re: re positioning carb
Post by jorge__mendez on 02/09/15 at 09:50:34

ACME bomb

Title: Re: re positioning carb
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 02/09/15 at 09:55:37

Not a flooded lead-acid battery, but a gel or AGM batteries don't have a specific "up" installation orientation.

The bomb looks interesting. What is the approximate diameter?

Title: Re: re positioning carb
Post by jorge__mendez on 02/09/15 at 10:02:39

5C565258535A5E57090F0B3B0 wrote:

Not a flooded lead-acid battery, but a gel or AGM batteries don't have a specific "up" installation orientation.

The bomb looks interesting. What is the approximate diameter?

I would say around 5-6" diameter approx. And the battery I have is a Big Crank battery. It says NON-SPILLABLE.

Title: Re: re positioning carb
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 02/09/15 at 10:12:56

The problem with the bomb is that there's no convenient way to to gain access to the inside to mount a K&N or similar filter. I think you'd need two openings;

1. For the carb inlet. That would need to be about 1-3/4".
2. For airlet. Given the constraints of the shape of the bomb I think you'd need to remove the lower 1/3 of the tank to have enough room to inset a small K&N filter.

Title: Re: re positioning carb
Post by jorge__mendez on 02/09/15 at 10:30:37

That kinda sounds like im not gona have a "bomb" looking tank anymore with all that cutting. How about moving the battery? Will that give it more room?

Title: Re: re positioning carb
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 02/09/15 at 10:58:56

The Big Crank battery is an AGM battery that is Sealed, Leakproof, and Spillproof so it can be mounted in any orientation.

As far as the oil tank as air filter box concept, it's just gonna be difficult with a sphere. An old school oil tank is really a perfect hiding spot for an airbox. But it looks like you already have the hardware in hand (literally).

Title: Re: re positioning carb
Post by EJID on 02/09/15 at 13:25:56

If you can figure a way to mount that battery on the muffler bracket, you can open up that whole area where the batter & air box currently are so that you can drop that bomb in there... 8-)

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1404924608/1#1

http://p1.bikepics.com/2014/07/10/bikepics-2681956-full.jpg

http://p1.bikepics.com/2014/07/10/bikepics-2681958-800.jpg

Title: Re: re positioning carb
Post by jorge__mendez on 02/09/15 at 17:09:15

I think thats what Im going to end up doing. Figuring out a way to place the battery somewhere else and see how much space I have to work on the carb filter. If not I will just go for the stock filter. I will check tomorrow and see how much space I got.

Title: Re: re positioning carb
Post by 49mack on 02/10/15 at 05:33:38

Dave, I am still having trouble getting my bike to run over 65. I took it to a seemingly knowledgeable Suzuki mechanic (40 years experience) at a local shop and asked him to go over my jetting and float settings. He said he wouldn't touch it until I re-installed the stock air box. He swears the bike will not run well with a pod or round K&N. But my bike ran poorly before I removed the airbox and added a Dyna muffler, white spacer mod, etc. But this gives ride to a question: How do all those Ryca kits run with a K&N or a cone???
I'd appreciate hearing from anyone with a California bike and has "desmogged" it. Ride Safely!

Title: Re: re positioning carb
Post by Dave on 02/10/15 at 05:45:35

49Mack:

If your bike won't go over 65, there is something wrong with it. It must not be making the normal amount of HP for a stock bike. It could be lots of things, and it needs to be sorted out. The slide in the carb could be sticking, the fuel flow could be limited - if you have the stock vacuum petcock and a different air filter....or the diaphragm is getting stiff or leaky, the fuel flow through the petcock could be too low. Some cone air filters block the hole at the top of the inlet to the carb and make the bike run weird...the rubber has to be trimmed away from the carb inlet to allow air to flow into that hole at the top of the inlet. Your engine could be low on compression, the cam/rockers could be worn and you may not be getting the valve lift or duration you should have.

At this point we don't know enough about your bike to help with a diagnosis. Has your bike ever run well? Did you buy it already modified and the lack of performance came with the bike when you bought it?