SuzukiSavage.com - Print Page

SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
General Category >> The Cafe >> legal suicide
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1421740517

Message started by stinger on 01/19/15 at 23:55:17

Title: legal suicide
Post by stinger on 01/19/15 at 23:55:17

I watched this video and I was wondering if any of you do this. It's legal in California I guess. I know Versy lives in LA and a couple of others if I remember right. How in the heck could they legalize something this suicidal? Not legal here in Oregon, but even if it was, no way am I going to try it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=977zYEqpsSE

And this is what happens when you lane split in a truck. Luckiest man ever!
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2015/01/interstate_84_crash_indiana_au.html#incart_2box

Title: Re: legal suicide
Post by jcstokes on 01/20/15 at 01:56:56

I will lane split when absolutely necessary and I hate every minute of it and I don't do it at those speeds.

Title: Re: legal suicide
Post by Dave on 01/20/15 at 03:29:28

In CA lane splitting is not illegal....and recently the Highway Patrol had to remove suggested guidelines for lane splitting from their website...as somebody got upset because they felt that by posting guidelines - the Highway Patrol was endorsing the act.

The guidelines are/were:

"You should lane-split no faster than 10 mph over the speed of traffic around you, and we recommend (motorcyclists) not split at all if the traffic is faster than 30 mph."

Lane splitting is not permission to pass folks at any time and any place, and you are not given special permission to exceed the speed limits. The Officers can ticket anyone they believe is operating recklessly....I have no idea how they expect to catch them in all that traffic (other than opening their door as the lane splitter tries to pass.

There is no doubt in my mind that the folks that lane split at excessive speeds are taking risky chances with their well being.....and not all will win that gamble.

Title: Re: legal suicide
Post by Demin on 01/20/15 at 04:18:03

It is basically so you can keep the bike moving in slow to stopped traffic.It was designed in hot weather areas before bikes were water cooled.

Title: Re: legal suicide
Post by prechermike on 01/20/15 at 04:19:56

We (my family; wife, daughter, and son) were sitting in traffic yesterday in our "big city" about 35 miles away, when a crotch rocket comes past us splitting lanes. We might have been crawling along toward the stoplight, or we might have been completely stopped, I can't remember. The guy seemed to be flying, but only because we were stopped and he had one of those obnoxious mufflers on the bike. My kids (16 & 21) kind of freaked out, what was that!?

I told the the guy was splitting lanes, pretty sure it was legal in NC, they started jabbering about it was dangerous, stupid, etc. You don't do that, do you?

Of course not, I'm too old and fat for that nonsense. (I really don't, not that many places I am in that much of a hurry to get to.)

My point? IDK, it happens and people realize it is not he smartest thing to do.

Title: Re: legal suicide
Post by Dave on 01/20/15 at 05:05:20

This issue is a very controversial issue - hotter than an oil thread in most cases.

Here is a link to a description of the lane splitting/filtering in Wikipedia. It is not specifically legal in any state......although CA evidently does not specifically prohibit it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_splitting

Title: Re: legal suicide
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/20/15 at 07:07:35

I'd do it, but I'd be a lot more wary of driver who is in or soon will be in a place to make a lane change. The distracted,texting,maybe drifting,driver is not something I would expect to be able to predict... I would not want to need to do that often..
He honked and cussed at a driver who made a legitimate lane change.
That creates animosity toward the riders and I think he is an arrogant jakkass.

Title: Re: legal suicide
Post by verslagen1 on 01/20/15 at 07:23:21

477C7166777B60667D757867140 wrote:

Most likely they took it down because most of them do not follow it, and some greatly exceed it.
Of course there are a few that will lay down the law cause they can.
And besides the former guidelines, there's a law somewhere that allows it.

Title: Re: legal suicide
Post by Serowbot on 01/20/15 at 07:56:36

I wouldn't mind being allowed to roll gently to the front of the cue at a light,... or roll though a traffic snarl at walking speed between lanes,... but through speeding traffic it does seem really dangerous, and must scare the carp out of cagers too...
:-/...

Title: Re: legal suicide
Post by Dave on 01/20/15 at 09:04:27

While I have no "Dog in this Fight".....I am a member of the AMA, and lane splitting is an issue that receives a lot of comments and articles.
http://americanmotorcyclist.com/Rights/PositionStatements/LaneSplitting.aspx

The most current information is that no state has enacted legislation that approves it. Here is some of what the AMA has said recently:

"For decades, California has been the only state to permit lane splitting. While not specifically permitted or prohibited in the California Vehicle Code, lane splitting authority comes from the California Highway Patrol. In early 2013, the CHP published lane splitting guidelines for the first time. While the guidelines do not carry the force of law, they provide clear indicators under which a motorcyclist might be cited for unsafe or imprudent behavior.

(SOURCE: Issued by the California Highway Patrol, California Motorcycle Safety Program in 2013, the guidelines were rescinded in 2014 for administrative reasons but are still viewable at “Lane Splitting General Guidelines.”

Legislatively, there has been state-level activity on lane splitting, although to date no bill has been enacted.

(SOURCE: California 2013 SB-350 would codify lane splitting but would also impose certain restrictions on motorcyclists. Other states that have recently considered lane-splitting legislation include: Arizona (2010 HB-2475); Illinois (2006 SB-2439); Massachusetts (2007 HB-3493); Nevada (2013 AB-236); New Jersey (2012 AB-2102 and 2010 AB-140 and AB-1684); Oregon (2011 SB-463 and 2007 SB-386); Texas (2011 HB-1571 and 2009 SB-506); and Washington (2007 HB-2160 and SB-5985).

So.....if you get pulled over for lane splitting - doesn't appear that there is anything that says you are specifically "allowed" to do it. It appears that if the California Highway Patrol used their "guidelines" to determine if you are "ticket worthy" when lane splitting. (But wadda' I know....I have only been in CA once....and that was 50 years ago!).

Title: Re: legal suicide
Post by verslagen1 on 01/20/15 at 09:42:34

I'm generally passed by squids and motocops.
So I'd have to say my lane splitting is generally conservative.
Only full dress hogs are slower.

I'll have to check the m/c handbook for what I recall is there.

Title: Re: legal suicide
Post by savskad on 01/20/15 at 09:50:42

Here in Austin we have traffic that is probably just as bad as, if not worse than L.A. I feel like lane splitting on a daily basis, but never have due to the fact I'm afraid most people 'round here would open their door on me. If it were ever an emergency I wouldn't hesitate to do it though. Of course, if traffic is moving faster than 10-15mph I don't see a need to lane split. We do get a LOT of sitting still for 20 seconds at a time. I would also hate to cook my block by sitting still too long on a hot Texas day.

On another note, I saw this in related videos from the lane splitting video, thought it was kinda clever. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21V9XfMwidc

Title: Re: legal suicide
Post by verslagen1 on 01/20/15 at 11:06:02

Aside from all other issues, would you allow someone to go safely by you if it did not impact your travel in any way?

I think most would say yes, a few will say no.

for me, it's safer to be between lanes then in them.
I've made more forced lane changes then cut off while splitting.

Title: Re: legal suicide
Post by 1st2know on 01/20/15 at 12:35:16

I lane split when:
- I'm stopping quickly and there's a vehicle behind me. I pull in between two vehicles ahead of me and stop. I call this "Borrowing bumpers" - if the vehicle behind me cant stop in time, the cars that I'm in between will protect me.

- If the vehicle in front of me has its four ways on.

- If someone is tailgating me.

- If I find myself ahead of a truck carrying liquids - concrete mixer, fuel tankers, and fire trucks. From talking to truckers, they tell me these vehicles can't simply stop by pressing the brakes, they have to brake - unbrake - and then brake again to manage the momentum shift of the liquids they're carrying.

As far as the video goes - lane splitting or not, aggressive riding is dangerous, and life shortening.

Title: Re: legal suicide
Post by Art Webb on 01/20/15 at 19:13:37

7D6F787D656F6A0E0 wrote:

I did it when I lived in Austin, regularly
I had one jackass (in 22 years) open his door to try to cause me to wreck, but since I obey the guidelines as posted (never over 30MPH, never more than 10 MPH faster than surrounding traffic) I had time to stop. When he closed the door, I went past him quickly but without drama
it's not dangerous, done right, and most folks won't start a fight over it
it is however illegal in Texas, so there's that

Title: Re: legal suicide
Post by zieglarf on 01/20/15 at 20:09:22

TxDPS states:

19. Can I ride my motorcycle between cars in traffic?

The law doesn't specifically say one way or the other, but there are several statutes that may come to bear depending upon the circumstances, i.e. right of way, obligation to drive in a single lane, signal intention, passing with safety, etc. Motorcycles are considered equally as cars regarding traffic laws, so the single lane, signal intention and other statutes in the Transportation Code could come in to play.

The main statute that makes "lane splitting" illegal is Transportation Code Section 545.060, entitled "Driving on Roadway Laned for Traffic."

• An operator on a roadway divided into two or more clearly marked lanes for traffic:
• shall drive as nearly practical entirely within a single lane; and
• may not move from the lane unless that movement can be made safely.

(Boldness from TxDPS)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

To me this sounds more for cars than motorcycles. A car CAN drive in two lanes - a motorcycle cannot (except riding on the line itself).

So a motorcycle is always 'practical entirely within a single lane' even if next to car in the same lane. Two vehicles in a single lane would be entirely different.

As far as moving safely from one lane to another - that is a whole different set of issues including speed, experience, the driver of the other vehicle, etc.

I've weaved in and out of traffic between vehicles into a fully empty space in the next lane, but have never split straight down the middle.

Title: Re: legal suicide
Post by verslagen1 on 01/20/15 at 20:32:26

2F3C303239342733550 wrote:

The main statute that makes "lane splitting" illegal is Transportation Code Section 545.060, entitled "Driving on Roadway Laned for Traffic."

• An operator on a roadway divided into two or more clearly marked lanes for traffic:
• shall drive as nearly practical entirely within a single lane; and
• may not move from the lane unless that movement can be made safely.

(Boldness from TxDPS)

Entirely will be the key word, as a m/c or truck with big mirrors can have the wheels entirely in the lane but not be entirely within the lane.

You know the trooper is going to say that don't ja?

Title: Re: legal suicide
Post by Serowbot on 01/20/15 at 21:51:39

5F4C5B5A45484E4C4718290 wrote:

You know the trooper is going to say that don't ja?

He's gonna' say,... "Tell it to the judge"... ;D...

Title: Re: legal suicide
Post by savskad on 01/21/15 at 06:14:47

I've asked MULTIPLE Austin City cops about this, none of them really seemed to know a definite answer. I think it would boil down to the officer and if they wanted to be nice, I don't really want to take my chances either way.

Unless it was an emergency of course, but to a degree, aren't most traffic laws thrown out the window for "emergencies"?

If it was bumper to bumper traffic and I did choose to lane split...I'd be impressed to see a cop catch me on the lower-deck of IH-35 ;D Then I'd probably say something smart-ass like "Congratulations! You win! You get to write me a ticket!" :P

Title: Re: legal suicide
Post by Dave on 01/21/15 at 06:46:11

5A485F5A42484D290 wrote:

If it was bumper to bumper traffic and I did choose to lane split...I'd be impressed to see a cop catch me on the lower-deck of IH-35 ;D Then I'd probably say something smart-ass like "Congratulations! You win! You get to write me a ticket!" :P

The only way anyone will catch you is if they are on a skinnier, faster motorcycle....braver than you......have the guy in the helicopter follow you home - or if they use a radio to get somebody down the road to go out to meet you. I don't believe they use "Stop Sticks" on motorcycles!

Title: Re: legal suicide
Post by Dane Allen on 01/21/15 at 12:03:39

Lane splitting is an integral part of my daily commute. I am surprised at how many motorists are aware of me and make an effort to make room for me to get by (which I don't need, the gaps are wide as it is). I always go to the front of the line at lights and stop signs. My philosophy is to always be out of other people's way, to have the smallest footprint in traffic as possible.

I commute 28 miles one way on a daily basis, couple times a month on my wife's Sportster 1200, a few times in the cage and the rest on the S-40. The S-40 is perfect for lane splitting in heavy traffic.

I have a family so I don't take risks and am very happy to ride at 68 in the right lane when everyone else is doing 80. When everyone is doing 20 then I am comfortable at doing 30 splitting the extra wide carpool lane.

Title: Re: legal suicide
Post by Flint on 01/21/15 at 15:47:24

Here they will ding you with careless driving for lane splitting, automatic court appearance. Doing a wheelie, even a small accidental one, is a stunting ticket that can result in a vehicle impound.

The car drivers around here are getting worse every year, especialy the texters. I wouldn't feel safe at all lane splitting today. I think it should be legal when there are traffic jams ect.

Last summer I was on my XT250 and the traffic on the 4 lane came to a complete stop. I drove down into the ditch between the highways and carried on. :) A lot of people gave me the thumbs up. No police were around fortunately.

Title: Re: legal suicide
Post by verslagen1 on 01/21/15 at 15:55:01

Flint,
Quote:

around here

doesn't mean much when you don't say where or have it list below your name.

Title: Re: legal suicide
Post by Flint on 01/21/15 at 16:07:15

Sorry, Alberta Canada.

Title: Re: legal suicide
Post by Art Webb on 01/21/15 at 17:33:10

342631342C2623470 wrote:

Never ask a cop about the law, I have met far too many of them who don't actually know the law
not surprising, there are so many laws on the books, no one can know them all
I had a cop ticket me for 'oversize tires, because the tires on my car were larger than stock. The law is, the tires can't extend beyond the fenders. Mine did not
I've also had cops harrass me and freinds about 'unregistered firearms'
Texas has no firearms registration