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Message started by MnSpring on 11/15/14 at 14:06:34

Title: Oil Filter (New-Used)
Post by MnSpring on 11/15/14 at 14:06:34

Oil Filters. Their are cheep ones, expensive ones, factory ones, after market ones.
Which one is, ‘best’ ? Is it the, ‘used’, one ?

For years, I have always thought, a, ‘used’, oil filter, filters, better, than a new one.
Reason: The, ‘used’, filter, has some, ‘plugging’, of dirt/metal/carbon/etc, which allows only smaller, and smaller, particles to go through.

When it comes to changing oil. (In most of the ICE's I use). I take off the filter, drain it, (take out the used oil), then making sure the ‘O’ ring/seal is ok and threads are clean, put it back. Sometimes 4 or 5 oil changes. It seems to work well.

(Unless I just picked something up, than change the filter on first oil change, cause I have NO Idea what the PO did)

But of course their is a diminishing point, where it is, ’to’ plugged up, and nothing will go through.

Don’t have, or have access to, sophisticated, flow meter, and micron particle measuring equipment.
So the time for a ’new’ filter, is a ’seat of the pants’ thing.

Don’t expect, ANY, filter manufacturing company to do this, (even though they perhaps have), because, if a ’new’, filter was, NOT, required, every, or every other, oil change, it would decrease their revenue.

But, does any one know, of a independent lab that has done this? And if so, the results?

In discussing this at swap meets, and with, ‘gear heads’. It seems, about 1/2 are the every/ever other, oil change. and the other 1/2, 5-7 times. Even had a extreme of a farmer, who bought a new Massy, in 1955, and was on his, 3rd filter !!!!!!
He told me: “Son, I Just drop the oil when I come in from the field, take out the filter. (a steel cased filter in a canister), drop it in a coffee can of kerosene, then after lunch, take out the filter, then after my nap, fill her back up”.
Now that, I think is rather extreme.

So, what are your thoughts on, ’new’ - ‘old’, Oil filters.

Title: Re: Oil Filter (New-Used)
Post by Serowbot on 11/15/14 at 15:17:01

My XT filter was nothing but a screen...
I'm of the opinion that no filter is better than a dirty one... I do go 2 changes on a filter because I change every 2500 miles...

Once a bike is broke-in,... the filter is almost useless...(it has picked up the break-in shrapnel that comes from the first 500 miles, and now it's just something you have to keep changing so it doesn't restrict flow.
... I want good oil flow...

Title: Re: Oil Filter (New-Used)
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/15/14 at 18:05:33

My lawn mower maintenance states change oil every 100 hours, filter every 200.

I didn't always change the filter on the bike. I did dissect a few.I didn't see scary stuff.

Title: Re: Oil Filter (New-Used)
Post by Kris01 on 11/15/14 at 20:42:41

The oil doesn't just pick up break-in shrapnel. It also collects grit that passed through the air filter. Also, don't forget the wear and tear of any metal to metal contact that flows through the engine and eats away at your bearings. I wouldn't go more than 2 oil changes on the same filter.

Title: Re: Oil Filter (New-Used)
Post by MnSpring on 11/17/14 at 08:20:38

The Air filter. The kind you have on now, is ’tuned’ to the motor.
Change the airflow, one way or the other, you need to change the tuning.
The Air filter, which works for you, now starts getting dirty and dirtier, the engine performance changes,
because, the air filter is getting, ‘blocked’ up, so their is less air getting through. Because the large holes are getting blocked up, so their is only smaller and smaller, 'holes', left.

Why is that not the same with a oil filter.
Except that doesn’t have to filter out the tremendous volume of air, (and particles) through it.
The oil filter is ‘cleaning’ the same oil. No new, ‘particles’, are introduced to it. (well some, but they should be really small , wear/carbon, ones).

So outside of, new, break-in, oil filter change/s.

I am thinking along the lines of the Quote below:

Quote:

So, if bigger particles, are plugging spaces in the filter, would not a, used filter, ‘filter’ out more, and smaller ones, of the ‘wear’ metal particles?

(Of course to the point of restricting the flow)

But it could be a, ‘Match’ in a Bonfire. Throw a match in a bonfire, it DOES change the temp, but does it matter.

Title: Re: Oil Filter (New-Used)
Post by Dave on 11/17/14 at 09:15:07

There is nothing that can be proven about this....we don't have a lab or a research facility at home. Most of us just ride and wrench on bikes for fun. I don't believe a dirty oil filter is "more desirable" than a clean one....if there is a particle blocking a pore in the filter....the oil has to find another pore to go through. Do pores only become "partially blocked" by particles....maybe. But I believe the new filter adequately filters out particles that are big enough to be worth filtering....and a new filter will be a bit less restrictive and flow a bit more oil than a used one.

I ride my bike about 4,000 miles a year. I change my oil and filter just before I put my bike away for the winter. The next summer just before I go to the Dragon I drain the oil and but in a couple of quarts of new oil and leave the filter alone. The oil is never black in the sight window when it is changed, and most likely the filter has not been used to what the manufacturer claims is the replacement interval.

I spend less than $ 20 a year on the oil and filters. I will most likely never have any excessive wear or mechanical problems that are oil related. It is not something I spend much time worrying over - beyond trying to buy the Rotella T when it is on sale.

Title: Re: Oil Filter (New-Used)
Post by MnSpring on 11/17/14 at 09:35:11

Yep, most probably a: ‘Match’ in a Bonfire".

Gonna go to the shed, and look at how to adapt,
Digger's, Excellent, Preventive Medicine, post.
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1416115626

After I get some more wood for the stove.
Because not it's not cold, yet. Only 15f, w/25 +/- wind.
with only 3" of snow. Bikes are nicely, tucked away, for the next 5 +/- months.

Not bad here. Some places, aground Superior,
already have, 'Lake Effect', snow of up to 2 feet.

Title: Re: Oil Filter (New-Used)
Post by verslagen1 on 11/17/14 at 09:42:48

I guess that would be the point, are you going to commit the time and resources to determine the effectively of the filter as it relates to miles/hours or do you just change it and ride?

All filters made for the savage have any more or less filter area or have finer filtering capacity.

Title: Re: Oil Filter (New-Used)
Post by Ed L. on 11/17/14 at 10:21:14

I think the oil filter for the Savage has a pop off valve built into it which bypasses the filter element if the screen gets too plugged up with crud.
I replace my filter every two oil changes which seems to work out. Just got onto the Rotella band wagon for my bike, was using 20-50W auto oil before the change over. Never spotted anything odd in the oil so far, no metal or chunks of RTV so with a little luck I'm looking at many more miles on the scoot.

Title: Re: Oil Filter (New-Used)
Post by verslagen1 on 11/17/14 at 10:49:20

The oil pump does have a screen on the pickup that'll filter out large things... chunks of rtv and loose pieces.