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Message started by xyz on 11/08/14 at 14:31:20

Title: Electrical problem brewing--need expert advice
Post by xyz on 11/08/14 at 14:31:20

Dear SuzukiSavage.com community,

This is a first post for me. I rescued a stock 2002 with 13,000 miles on it that one of my students had abandoned in his back yard for a couple of years. When I got it I decided to pay a local shop to get it in good, safe running shape (fluids, brakes, carburetor, new battery, front fork seals, etc). That ended up being a lot more expensive then I had expected and so I have been happy to find this resource and learn a little from the collective expertise at this site. The bike has been running great and my 19 year old son and I have been having a blast riding it around town for the last year and a half (3500 miles).

This week my son brought the bike home from work and told me that it was behaving badly and that he could not keep it running. I was finally able to take a look at it this morning. The bike starts right up and then quickly kills unless you give it lots of throttle. Even after allowing it to warm and riding it around a bit it kills quickly at idle. Now, I know this could be lots of different things. However, my son commented that he had seen some sparks fly out from under the seat at the starter cable and that got me looking at the electrical system. It doesn't look bad (I have not taken anything apart but I don't see any cinders or obvious shorts). I did notice that the bolt that connects the starter cable to the battery is becoming extremely hot as soon as the ignition switch is keyed on. Can anybody let me know if this is normal? I have been reading this afternoon and I worry that my son might have left the key in the on position without running the bike and done damage to the ignitor box. I will need to confirm that with him. But does that sound feasible? Are there easy ways other than swapping out the cable/ignitor box to diagnose this? What other things should I be checking?

Thanks in advance for any responses.

Title: Re: Electrical problem brewing--need expert advice
Post by verslagen1 on 11/08/14 at 15:05:19

test your petcock 1st.
in the tech section under petcock, see link below.

Title: Re: Electrical problem brewing--need expert advice
Post by Todd James on 11/08/14 at 15:39:53

Quote:
"I did notice that the bolt that connects the starter cable to the battery is
becoming extremely hot as soon as the ignition switch is keyed on.
Can anybody let me know if this is normal?"

Answer:
No. That is not normal.
It probably indicates a bad connection.
The high resistance causes it to get hot.
Remove and clean the connector.
Check the wire for corrosion or looseness.
Re-install and be sure the bolt tightens correctly.

But.... Check The Petcock !

Title: Re: Electrical problem brewing--need expert advice
Post by Yoshi on 11/08/14 at 16:34:03

Go to an autozone with the battery and have them load test it, when the battery is low it draws more amperage causing the wires to get hot. If you continue running the bike with a low battery then it will destroy the charging system

Title: Re: Electrical problem brewing--need expert advice
Post by MnSpring on 11/08/14 at 16:38:23

7D617C716F667B6D090 wrote:

... pay a local shop ... ended up being a lot more expensive then I had expected ...

Now you know.

7D617C716F667B6D090 wrote:

... The bike starts right up and then quickly kills unless you give it lots of throttle.

At first first sounds like 'crap' gas, (with water in it)
However, Next statement.

7D617C716F667B6D090 wrote:

... my son commented that he had seen some sparks fly out from under the seat at the starter cable ... I did notice that the bolt that connects the starter cable to the battery is becoming extremely hot as soon as the ignition switch is keyed on.

As a previous posts said. Check, Take off, CLEAN, put back on, 'Tight".

As to 'checking the Petcock'. I think it would be a rather bad idea, to have gas, hit a spark !
Also a '02, with 13,000 miles, 'sitting' for a couple of years, with un-known, gas in it. Probably time to put a 'Raptor in'.

7D617C716F667B6D090 wrote:

...done damage to the ignitor box.

"If", that Is the problem, I have one !

Title: Re: Electrical problem brewing--need expert advice
Post by xyz on 11/09/14 at 18:16:31

Thanks for the fast replies! It sounds like I am dealing with two things: loose connection/possible dirty battery terminals affecting the electrical circuitry and an old vacuum petcock that ought to be replaced with a manual. I had seen warnings about that petcock all over this user group but I never quite understood what are the symptoms of a bad petcock that needs replacing and the bike has run like a champ for 3500 miles so I had left well enough alone. How about this: I am riding at 72 mph (about as fast as I am comfortable pushing this thing) and after six or eight miles it just kills and I have to coast to the side of the road. Plenty of gas. I wait ten minutes and it fires back up and I ride off. That happened to me once about six months ago. Petcock?

Thanks again. You are all good folks.

Title: Re: Electrical problem brewing--need expert advice
Post by Dave on 11/10/14 at 03:23:20

524E535E40495442260 wrote:

A failing vacuum petcock can behave exactly as you describe....the petcock may not be able to handle the lower engine vacuum that occurs during high throttle settings....or the increase need for fuel that occurs at at speed. They can also have other symptoms like running fuel through the vacuum tube and flooding the engine, or running out of gas on the main tank even though the tank is nearly full. They are quirky when they begin to fail.

Title: Re: Electrical problem brewing--need expert advice
Post by Jack_650 on 11/10/14 at 15:14:37

Well, this sounds like what I went through quite a while back. I was on my way to Florida and the bike quit cold. I called home, got the trailer brought back home and then it started right up. So despite common sense when it started right up I got back on and hit the road south. Two hundred miles down the interstate it quit again in the middle of nowhere Wisconsin. Coasted to the off ramp and put down the kick stand.

Went through the check list:
1. Air
2. Fuel
3. Electrical

Plenty of the first two and none of the third. Turns out the "hot" battery screw was not tight enough. Torqued it down and proceeded on my way. Always check the obvious first.

Jack

Title: Re: Electrical problem brewing--need expert advice
Post by xyz on 11/16/14 at 15:32:41

Thanks again for the advice. I finally had time to spend riding and working on the bike this weekend. The battery is clean and looks great. I tightened down the big bolt that connects the starter cable and it is no longer getting hot or shorting out so that was an easy problem to solve. The bike is still idling rough and killing without some extra throttle. I disconnected the vacuum tube to the stock petcock and I don't see any evidence of fuel leakage. I plugged the line with a golf tee and put a cap over the carburetor and switched the petcock to "Prime". The bike ran the same. I am thinking that maybe I have dirt in the tank and/or carburetor. But I am a little surprised that it seems to have changed so suddenly. I went ahead and bought the Yamaha Raptor petcock and I have that here with me. But I won't make the change unless I know that is going to make a difference. What is the best way to determine whether my problem is in the carburetor?

Title: Re: Electrical problem brewing--need expert advice
Post by xyz on 11/16/14 at 18:07:49

A couple added observations from this afternoon's ride: The bike sounds alright. I have to keep a little throttle on or it will kill. When I am on the throttle and then back off I am getting some small backfires. Likewise when I am traveling down a steep sloped hill. If I rock the bike back and forth at idle it kills even if I am on the throttle. If this sounds like anything obvious I am open to suggestions. I am assuming some problem getting fuel to the cylinder and, based on my testing, it doesn't seem like the petcock per se (though I will replace that once I am confident I understand what is wrong with the bike).

Title: Re: Electrical problem brewing--need expert advice
Post by Todd James on 11/16/14 at 18:56:41

Quote:
"... it doesn't seem like the petcock per se (though I will replace that once I am confident I understand what is wrong with the bike)."

It's great that you want to understand what is wrong.
However, you should replace the petcock as a first step towards understanding.
The petcock may not be the problem, but it's the most logical first step...
... especially since you have the new Raptor petcock in hand.
Over 16,000 miles and 14 years of ethanol blended fuel is pushing the limits of the stock petcock.
Even if it isn't bad today, replacing it may save you grief tomorrow.
It's an easy-peasy job. Really.

Title: Re: Electrical problem brewing--need expert advice
Post by verslagen1 on 11/16/14 at 19:14:26

475B464B555C4157330 wrote:

If you got a fuel delivery problem, and you got a fuel delivery enhancement device in your hand... why won't you try it?

Do you need to understand gravity to know it works?

Title: Re: Electrical problem brewing--need expert advice
Post by xyz on 11/17/14 at 12:11:45

I'd like for what I am doing to make sense. Right now I don't understand how changing the petcock does anything different than blocking the vacuum line and riding in Prime does. Other than clean up the line at the petcock, which is not really the fault of the stock Suzuki part. I will pull the old one and figure it out. Thanks again for your time.

Title: Re: Electrical problem brewing--need expert advice
Post by thumperclone on 11/17/14 at 12:19:45

did you find the source of the sparks from under the seat??

Title: Re: Electrical problem brewing--need expert advice
Post by xyz on 11/17/14 at 16:26:09

Yes. The cable to the negative battery terminal was not fastened down well enough. Tightened the screw and no more problem. I was wrong that the electrical problem (intermittent starting) was connected to the rough idle. We'll see.

Title: Re: Electrical problem brewing--need expert advice
Post by Steve H on 11/17/14 at 16:53:56

When my vacuum petcock died, it was putting gas into the vacuum line causing rough idle and stalling when I stopped.

I plugged the vacuum line. (both sides from the carb and the petcock)
put it on prime, the fuel flow was a small trickle compared to a normal full-on petcock. Prime is really intended to fill the carb bowls...speed of flow is not a necessity.

The bike was easily rideable as long as the throttle wasn't opened too much.

The part about rocking the bike side to side causing it to die makes me either think fuel level in bowl too high or a wiring issue.

If there's crud of some sort in the pilot circuit, it will generally come on suddenly after it picks up the crud.

I did notice mine idled a bit rough after the rectifier died and the battery voltage got really low.

Hope you get it figured pretty soon.

Title: Re: Electrical problem brewing--need expert advice
Post by Art Webb on 11/25/14 at 14:39:09

I didn't wait for my petcock to fail, as soon as I read in the tech about the raptor petty, I ordered one
but then, I've dealt with crappy vacuum petties before and consider them the work of Satan
I believe in keeping things as simple as possible

Title: Re: Electrical problem brewing--need expert advice
Post by farmerpete on 12/13/14 at 10:43:23

I purchased and installed a raptor 660 petcock today. Easy replacement, however the brass fitting to the fuel line is smaller than the one on the Suzuki petcock. Do I need to get a different Raptor petcock? How do I know if I'm getting the right one? Thanks.

Title: Re: Electrical problem brewing--need expert advice
Post by Dave on 12/13/14 at 10:48:22

The real one comes in a white box with Yamaha printed on it.