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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Just how Big of a PIA is it
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Message started by Ed L. on 08/30/14 at 16:47:33

Title: Just how Big of a PIA is it
Post by Ed L. on 08/30/14 at 16:47:33

Well it is is time to check the tensioner and while I have side cover off I'm thinking about swapping out the cam for a stage 1.

My question is just how much of a pia would the job be?? I already have the cam, it's been warming a spot on a shelf for a couple of years and has started to talk to me recently :)

Can the cam be swapped out with the engine in the frame?, I've heard yes with some frames, no with others.

I've a Clymers and a BIG hammer :D , what else do I need beside regular hand tools.

Any and all tricks will be welcome.

thanks

Title: Re: Just how Big of a PIA is it
Post by verslagen1 on 08/30/14 at 22:26:53

7B5A6172103E0 wrote:

If you can get the head cover off, cam is about as hard.
loose the adjuster, maybe take the guide off.
the looser you get the chain, easier it gets.
remove the 2 bolts attaching the cam to gear, and slip it off the shoulder, then work the cam till you can pull it out.

Title: Re: Just how Big of a PIA is it
Post by anebv8 on 08/31/14 at 00:44:43

I've done the cam shaft with the motor still in the frame on my '86 if that helps :-/

Title: Re: Just how Big of a PIA is it
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/31/14 at 20:30:25

I didn't pull the motor to do mine,BUT,,IF I was gonna do the cam I'd wanna do the chain. No,I WOULD do the chain.

Title: Re: Just how Big of a PIA is it
Post by Ed L. on 09/01/14 at 06:08:16

I already have a replacement chain, it's been keeping the cam company on the shelf and since I'm already in that side of the engine it will be swapped out also. Planning to install a Versy tensioner also.
It just doesn't seem right to pull a working engine apart but my gut says it is time for a quick upgrade.

Title: Re: Just how Big of a PIA is it
Post by S-P on 09/02/14 at 20:06:38

46675C4F2D030 wrote:

Yeah, if you have the parts, motivation and time I'd do the chain, cam and Versy tensioner all at once too. You'll get a LOT more mileage out of that combo. Makes sense to me. But I'm not sure if that's a good recommendation. ;D

Title: Re: Just how Big of a PIA is it
Post by Ed L. on 09/04/14 at 13:23:24

I opened up the right side cover today to check the tensioner. A quick measurement showed .64 inches which converts to 16.5 mm. Not at the service interval yet but too close not to do something about. Milage is at 11k for all those who track stats like this.
Had to stop riding last year for some personal problems (fell off a ladder!!) and guess I'm glad I did park it.
Next I'm getting ready to open up the top and see if the cam cover will slide out without dropping the engine. Already have the tank and seat off.
No pictures yet, greasy hands and cameras just don't mix well.

Title: Re: Just how Big of a PIA is it
Post by BryanA on 09/05/14 at 15:20:39

I found the hardest part about the whole process was puttin the darn cover back ON! I dont know why, but that pin in the starter gear was a MUTHER!

Title: Re: Just how Big of a PIA is it
Post by Ed L. on 09/05/14 at 19:30:41

Had a good day in the shop, pulled the cam cover and swapped out the cam. Took a good 3 hours nonstop and a couple of cans of Pepsi.
Thanks to Oldfeller for the great thread in the tech section on how to do the work. The cover came off with the motor in the frame, no problem.

Couldn't get a Versy cam chain adjuster so broke out the torch and made a Slavy (no pin) which took up all the slack.

I'm not swapping the cam chain, just too much involved with pulling the clutch and the modified adjuster looks like it did the job.

Got everything buttoned up and set the valve lash a little loose at .005 just to get it started. Now that's a PIA job, hope I got it right. Still need to set the decomp lever, clutch linkage, exhaust, install the tank, spark plug and fill it with oil.

Planning to test fire it this weekend with some dino juice oil as a breakin and flush then going to Rotella 6 afterwards. Going to go easy for the cam break in (yeah right)

Didn't have any extra parts left over and have had no need to use the big hammer yet. Hope there aren't any oil leaks, really don't want to tear it all apart again. ;)

Might need to go up to a 155 main jet after breakin but will keep the 152.5 in the carb for now.

Good to get some grease under the fingernails again :)

Title: Re: Just how Big of a PIA is it
Post by thumperclone on 09/05/14 at 20:47:14

ohmmmmm 8-)

Title: Re: Just how Big of a PIA is it
Post by Ed L. on 09/06/14 at 15:46:23

Finished buttoning the bike up this afternoon and jumped it off a marine battery. It popped and tried to start on the second crank then wouldn't fire at all till I put some gas in the tank :D.

After 4-5 more tries it came alive and smoothed out the idle. IT'S ALIVE AND SOUNDS GREAT!! Ended the day by installing a new Wally World battery.

The only oops was when the tank fell off the bench and clipped the edge of a tool box. Got a nice 2 inch dent in the front belly on the right side. Nothing a little bondo can't cover if I ever get around to it.

Next the startup oil gets dumped and fed to the chainsaw for bar lube and Rotella 6 will fill up the crankcase. Then a ride around the block and a quick back road wick to see what the cam can do.

Title: Re: Just how Big of a PIA is it
Post by LANCER on 09/06/14 at 20:18:19

When you had the head cover off, how did the rockers look ? Any noticeable wear ?

Title: Re: Just how Big of a PIA is it
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/06/14 at 22:06:17

Yeahh,, that clutch pack thing is no picnic,, the book SAYS dont use an impact,, but I did,, made life a LOT easier.. Never Start a thread with a power tool.. never,, start stuff by Hand, the least tool between you and the nut or bolt, the better. I stuffed a belt, leather, in the gears, some use a penny,, 82 and older are copper, 83 and newer, zinc/w/ a copper wash..

Ohh,, I didnt Run the clutch all the way Up with the impact, I finished it by hand,, an impact just lets a guy catch up the slack. You can get electric ones.. I knew a professional mechanic ho had a 12 V impact.. He was a serious mechanic. I took him my car, it had a dead miss on one cylinder, he did the troubleshooting & was done fixing it in 8 hours.. It was missing because a cam lobe had gone flat,,and he found it, went & got the cam and had it in and his hands clean & tools put up in 8 hours.. Never saw anyone any better,, he went to his tool box exactly ONCE, he got put what he needed, nothing he didnt, and he did that cam swap.. I dont HAVE a 12 V impact, but if I EVER think I can justify one, I wont be shy to do it..

Title: Re: Just how Big of a PIA is it
Post by Ed L. on 09/07/14 at 07:20:38

Lancer,
The rockers and cam showed no wear at all, the lobes of the stock cam were smooth and had a nice polish on the wear surfaces and the same with the rocker arms. No nicks,grooves or ridges anywhere, it was kinda of a shame to pull a perfectly good cam but it was time to check the adjuster anyways . I have always used a 20-50 weight dino oil in the engine since I got it. For assembly I used regular red grease as a prelube for the cam lobes and rockers and filled the well under the cam with oil per the instructions by OldFeller in the tech section.

Any specific break in instructions for the cam? I set the lash at .005 and slowly ran the RPMs up to 3000 and back down to a fast idle 4-5 times, shut it off and did the same two more times. Then I let it idle at 1300rpm for about one or two minutes, ran it back up to 3000rpm and then shut it down.

I'm dumping the dino juice oil used for startup and switching over to Rotella T, didn't buy the Rotella 6, today and plan to get it on the road in the next few days once it stops raining.

JOG, I've learned my lesson using power tools on screws going into aluminum, start everything by hand or finger and spin them in using a T drive on the socket. Helps keep me in the zone.

So far so good but I don't want to screw it up now it is together.

Update; changed the oil this morning and ran the bike for 5 minutes at idle and up and down the rpm range. I'm getting a little noise out of the rockers probably because they are set loose and some good pops out of the exhaust on fast shutdown. Looks like the engine is running a little lean, the pipe is getting blue at the head already. No oil leaks so far.

Gotta give the dog a bath. :D

Title: Re: Just how Big of a PIA is it
Post by Ed L. on 09/12/14 at 17:23:04

So far so good except for an oil leak, pinched the side cover gasket, didn't use any gasket sealer, and had to open it back up. Think I've started a love affair with Permatex Ultra Black, the stuff rocks for reusing a ripped gasket.

Took a picture of my home made Slavy cam chain tensioner,

http://www.bikepics.com/pictures/2695764/

Looks like it will last for a while.

Rejetted the carb up to a 155 main but couldn't get the pilot jet out without pulling the carb so kept the stock one in for now. Lots of corrosion on all the brass in the carb thanks to the ethanol gas we have to burn. Going to start using SeaFoam or one of the other gas treatments like Bean-O from now on ;).

The exhaust header turned blue during breakin in about 10 minutes with the 152.5 main in the carb. The 155 main should help keep the blueing down but more carb tuning is needed.

The stage 1 cam seems to want a lot more fuel than what I'm feeding it. Going to leave it alone for now till the cam gets broken in.

Time to ride the dog if it stops raining every day. :)

Title: Re: Just how Big of a PIA is it
Post by Dave on 09/12/14 at 17:50:50

The main jet really only controls the mixture from 3/4 to full throttle, and most likely the bluing is not coming from the main jet, as you spend very little time at those throttle settings.

If you have the stock air cleaner a #155 main jet is most likely too big. For my stage 1 cam the perfect jetting was a #50 pilot, #150 main, and only 2 washers on the needle instead of the more common 3 washers.

To check your pilot jet size, warm the engine up and set the idle speed around 1,000, and adjust the idle mixture screw until you get the highest and smoothest idle speed. If you have to go more than 2 turns out, then you need a larger pilot. If you can screw the idle mixture all the way in and the bike still runs....the pilot is too big.

Title: Re: Just how Big of a PIA is it
Post by Ed L. on 09/12/14 at 18:25:25

Dave, I'm using a K+N drop in air filter and have the air mixture screw turned out 2 3/4 turns. I replaced the white spacer with three washers which was about 1/2 of the orignial's thickness. You're right about the bottom end of the rpm range still running lean. I just didn't feel like going through the hassels of pulling the carb but it looks like that's the only way to get a good bite on that pilot jet screw.
The 152.5 main which I had in the carb was just about right for the old setup which is why I've gone to the 155 for the new cam. I've opened up the exhaust port a goodly bit and tweeked the ignition timing so the engine isn't stock anymore. Gotta feed the need.
Thanks for the tips, any tricks on getting the carb off?

Title: Re: Just how Big of a PIA is it
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/12/14 at 21:18:30

My KandN drop in didn't seal well and I had to do a good bit of work inside the Air box to get it to seat and stop the Air just bypassing the filter.

Title: Re: Just how Big of a PIA is it
Post by Ed L. on 09/14/14 at 10:24:52

Just got back from a 20 mile shake down ride. Bike really comes on above 4500 rpm, 50 mph in second gear with no problem. Only ran it it up hard once just to see what it could do. Snaps crackle and pops on decell which was expected, runs just fine at superslab speeds. The stage 1 cam made a big difference even with the carb needing work.