SuzukiSavage.com /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> suzy eats chains? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1408165418 Message started by Slim4177 on 08/15/14 at 22:03:37

Title: suzy eats chains? Post by Slim4177 on 08/15/14 at 22:03:37 I just got home from a 2000 mile trip on my s40  that I started about two thousand miles after I did the chain conversion.  With roughly 2500 miles on the first chain I had to stop in Missouri and find a shop to take a link out of the chain because I was all the way to the end of the adjustment.  Made it to Oklahoma, replaced the chain with a new "better" chain from the suzuki dealer, returned home to michigan and the second chain was all the way to the end of the adjustment after 750 miles.  It was slapping the swingarm when I pulled into my drive in Michigan.  This was with frequent adjusting and cleaning/lubing on the trip.  on the bright side, the engine ran great and with the 17/45 sprockets i had no trouble keeping up with traffic on the freeways...  anyone got any theories as to why she's eating chains?

Title: Re: suzy eats chains? Post by Serowbot on 08/15/14 at 22:12:58 So that's why we have a belt?... :-?...

Title: Re: suzy eats chains? Post by Slim4177 on 08/15/14 at 22:30:47 i spent this afternoon taking her apart, looking at things and scratching my head.  The sprockets have very minimal wear, even took them to a shop to have them looked at and same opinion.  Put the belt and pulleys back on til i have some sort of a starting point.  Gotta think that a chain should last longer than that though.  If it weren't for my dislike of the high rpms at freeway speeds I would have stayed with the belt originally.

Title: Re: suzy eats chains? Post by mike13 on 08/15/14 at 23:40:01 I think this is normal chain maintenance. Your sprockets aren't getting chewed up means you did it right. I think you should have just stayed with the original chain. In my experience it seems that once you get to the point of removing a link the chain has more or less done stretching and stretches a lot slower, probably moreso from actual wear at this point. Why did you change it at Oklahoma?

Title: Re: suzy eats chains? Post by HondaLavis on 08/16/14 at 07:05:58 My only reference is the owners manual from my early '70's Honda, but it suggests servicing a chain at a 500 mile interval for normal use and more frequently if you're on the highway a lot.  I agree with mike, what you're seeing is normal.  Those chains shouldn't stretch much more.  So long as the links are all fine and nothing is kinked or worn weird, I would just throw them back on. Like Serow said, that's why we have a belt.  Low maintenance.  8-)

Title: Re: suzy eats chains? Post by Serowbot on 08/16/14 at 07:40:40 Technically,... she's not "eating" chains... she's stretching them... If she was eating them, your sprockets would chew up... If your chain is too loose,... it can get whipped around and jerked about,.. causing faster stretch... ... but, it sounds like you are being meticulous with your adjustment, so I don't think that's a factor... It's just stretching... Is your chain a #520, or #530?... Hard to believe a little 30hp bike would need a #530 chain,.. but... :-/... This is why I like the belt... a #530 chain will add a lot of unsprung weight,.. and if it's an o-ring chain, it will steal about 1/2 a hp or more with friction... Maybe you should consider the Kawa front pulley mod and stay with the belt?....

Title: Re: suzy eats chains? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/16/14 at 10:08:41 You still have some kind of shock absorber in the sprocket? You've got a Fat one lunger throwing down a power pulse..at 3,000 rpm you're yanking your own chain 1,500 times a minute.it's not a steady load,

Title: Re: suzy eats chains? Post by Slim4177 on 08/16/14 at 11:30:28 both were 530 chains, the first one was fluid enough in its movement, the second one had a few links that were really stiff by about 400 miles, even with a cleaning at the 200 mile mark.  Every time I stopped for gas... clean and lube.  200 mile fuel interval because i put a tour tank on her for the trip.   As for the shock absorber in the sprocket- there's the rubber behind the rear sprocket that I think is called the 'cush hub' or something like that.  I don't have a chain tensioner.  There was a reddish substance that seemed to be comming from the chain and made a mess all over the side of the bike and rear tire, started on the first chain at about 1700 miles, started the same thing with the second chain at about 500 miles.  sort of a reddish sticky dust... mixed with the chain lube I was using.  Just a roller link chain, not an o ring or an x ring chain. The guy in the suzuki shop said that the chain was definitely worn out.  He used a caliper to measure between the links.  I laid the old chain and new chain side by side and for the same number of links (112) the old chain was 1.5 inches longer.  That seems like a lot to me, but spread out over 112 links maybe it's not?  this is the first road bike I've put a chain on.  played around with a few dirt bikes... but very minimally.

Title: Re: suzy eats chains? Post by Slim4177 on 08/16/14 at 11:41:08 and in the 200 or so miles after I took the link out of the first chain I had to adjust it again, considerably.  it loosened up enough while riding down I44 that the chain sagged, the clip on the masterlink snagged on something and came off.  I heard the masterlink scrape on something and stopped as quickly as I could.  Luckily it was still holding the chain together, but 3/4 of the way out.  I didnt have another link with me, or a clip, so I thought about what I could do, stole 2 washers from other spots on the bike and took the spring out of a pen, made my own retainer for the masterlink and limped down the shoulder at 10 mph to Vinita Ok...  lol.   so, i dont think the chain was done stretching.

Title: Re: suzy eats chains? Post by HondaLavis on 08/16/14 at 13:23:22 Below is an excerpt from an article I found concerning chain wear.  I did a little looking and some basic math.  The pitch of a 530 chain is calculated as .625, and a 112 link 530 chain measures approx. 70 inches long.  You said your old chain was about 1.5 inches longer than the new one.  That makes it approximately 2.14% lengthened, quickly approaching the suggested limit.  So your chain was definitely at the end of it's life.  Now on to why... The lengthening due to wear of a chain is calculated by the following formula: %=((M-(S*P))/(S*P))*100 M = the length of a number of links measured S = the number of links measured P = Pitch In industry, it is usual to monitor the movement of the chain tensioner (whether manual or automatic) or the exact length of a drive chain (one rule of thumb is to replace a roller chain which has elongated 3% on an adjustable drive or 1.5% on a fixed-center drive). A simpler method, particularly suitable for the cycle or motorcycle user, is to attempt to pull the chain away from the larger of the two sprockets. Any significant movement (e.g. making it possible to see through a gap) probably indicates a chain worn up to and beyond the limit. Sprocket damage will result if the problem is ignored. This excerpt comes from "Sprockets Unlimited." They have a page dedicated to maintenance tips.  Reading this, I would assume that your chain tension probably wasn't right.  Sorry, man. Chain adjustment/tensioning: Correct chain tensioning is extremely important for the efficiency and safety of a chain drive. Excessive chain tensioning creates additional loading on a chain and can cause excessive loss of lubricant from the bearing areas thus causing premature wear or even breakage, especially when a bike is ridden over bumpy surfaces. Excessively slack chains are submitted to violent whipping during acceleration and deceleration and additional loading is put on the chain. A slack chain could jump off the sprockets causing serious damage and injury. For normal road use, chains should be checked and tensioned initially after the first 60 miles (100 Km) and thereafter every 250 miles (400 Km). For off road use, chains should be checked after every time it is used. For the correct method and tension allowances, please refer to your handbook or workshop manual. However, in the absence of any manufacturers guidance we can offer the following advice. In most cases it is helpful to have a weight placed on the bike to compress the suspension or ask someone to sit on the bike. so that the front sprocket centre, the swinging arm pivot and rear sprocket centres are aligned on the same line. Adjust the chain tension by turning the tensioning bolts or cams until  the bottom strand of chain has a total of 10 to 15 mm (0.4" to 0.6") of up and down movement, while the upper strand is tight. Fasten the rear wheel and check again that the chain is tensioned correctly and that the chain moves freely. Finally, fix the bolts or nuts of the tensioning system.

Title: Re: suzy eats chains? Post by Slim4177 on 08/16/14 at 14:15:14 well i did have a bit more slack in the chain than that, i allowed for an inch to 1.5 inches of free play in the bottom strand... that being total up and down movement when my weight was on the bike.  Even so i don't think it whould have worn that fast.  It wasn't possible for me to keep it at an inch of freeplay for very long.

Title: Re: suzy eats chains? Post by Slim4177 on 08/16/14 at 14:23:25 I am curious how tight the chain drive folks keep their chains though, particularly the people who have taken lengthy trips with a chain.  Since my chain was riding in the center the whole trip and it wass cleaned and lubed regularly, tension is the only thing that makes sense.  I just cant believe that running at 1-1.5 inches of freeplay caused that much wear- even at freeway speeds.

Title: Re: suzy eats chains? Post by Slim4177 on 08/16/14 at 14:27:23 Thanks for the formula Honda, 1/2 inch of play just doesnt feel like enough to me, but- with limited chain experience, I could very easily be wrong.

Title: Re: suzy eats chains? Post by gizzo on 08/16/14 at 15:29:11 Hey Slim. Sorry to hear of your dramas. That kind of chain wear doesn't sound right to me. I'd be checking that your wheel/chain alignment is spot on. Have you got some kind of chain guide happening, like a nylon block on the swing arm for the chain to run in? Don't know if that would help, but it'll keep the noise down at least.... Maybe you want to try adding a chain device (like a  spring loaded jockey wheel) to keep the chain flailing about? FWIW and in my humble experience, I'm getting about 25,000km from a  chain. My new enfield (another low power single) I've done 3500km and haven't adjusted the chain since new. On the other hand, friends who have had big dirt singles (XR600, TT600 that kind of thing) can get through a chain in 4-5000 km, riding hard. I keep them adjusted with 3/4"- 1" slack with my weight on the seat. That's pretty much manufacturers spec. Good luck. s

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