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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Intermittent Short /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1408062256 Message started by pgambr on 08/14/14 at 17:24:16 |
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Title: Intermittent Short Post by pgambr on 08/14/14 at 17:24:16 The dreaded intermittent short came back, again. It is just the headlight, it won't turn on at all. Everything else works as it should. I've checked all the wires for chaffing and the basic stuff. I'm starting to think I'm looking in the wrong place. Could it be contacts in the starter button, or some other relay? Thanks |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by verslagen1 on 08/14/14 at 20:07:02 Have you checked the bulb? There aren't any relays... or do you have the model that cuts out the headlight when starting? I'd start checking with a VOM |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by pgambr on 08/14/14 at 20:36:28 Yeah, the bulb is good. I've replaced it twice. The headlight cuts off when you start it as well. Thanks for any help, I'm out of ideas. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by verslagen1 on 08/14/14 at 20:53:37 Didn't notice the title... Intermittent... not really a short, or you'd be blowing fuses. Well I don't have a book with the late model headlight starter cutout relay in it. But those usually work off the ground wire of the headlight. So check your grounds. Follow the ground wire, there's got to be a box somewhere, most likely under the tank or in the headlight shell. |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by Dave on 08/15/14 at 03:23:42 What are the symptoms? Does the headlight go out....does it blow a fuse....when the headlight goes out - does everything else on that side of the handlebars still work (horn, turn signals)? What makes the situation flare up....bumps, turning the bars, acceleration or braking? Since I am not there to poke and prod on my own.....I need more information to be of any help. Dave |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by pgambr on 08/15/14 at 03:37:24 Verslagen & Dave, Everything else works just fine, it is just the headlight. No other symptoms or causes, the headlight won't come on or the high beams, nothing. I replaced the bulb, the wires look ok, or at least on the outside. Turning the bars side to side doesn't do anything as well. Thanks for your assistance. |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by Dave on 08/15/14 at 03:55:09 If it is not blowing fuses....it is not a short. A short is when a hot wire comes in contact with a ground, and it blows a fuse. You either have a broken wire - or a faulty switch. You need to go to the Technical Section or your Repair Manual and look at the Wiring Diagram. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1294779818 The power is taken up to the left handlebar with an orange wire.....that take the power up to the left handlebar control and the control sends the power to the horn, turn signals or lights. If the headlight goes out - but the horn and turn signals continue to work, then you don't have any issue with the orange wire. You then need to check the switch. Take the handlebar control apart and pull it off the bar. You might first test to see if the wire into the headlight switch has power to it (I believe the wire is black with red stripes). If that has power to it, then the yellow wire coming out of the switch is the high beam and the white wire is the low beam - and you need to test those for power. The white one will have power when the switch is on the low position, and the yellow wire will have power when in the HI position. If you have power to the red/black wire - but can't get any to the yellow or white....try some Tuner or Electrical Contact cleaner. If you can't get power to the yellow or white wires - but the red/black wire has power...you need a new switch. If the power goes to the yellow and/or white wires - but the headlight still doesn't work, you need to test the yellow and white wires at the headlight. If you have power to those but the headlight still doesn't work - then it is either bulb or the black ground wire is broken somewhere. If you have power at the yellow and white wires at the handlebar - but not at the headlight....then both of the wires are broken somewhere in the harness between the left handlebar and the headlight. Dave |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by pgambr on 08/15/14 at 04:08:50 Dave, Thanks for the detailed post. I picked up a multmeter. http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_23332.jpg Will this suffice? Thanks again. |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by Dave on 08/15/14 at 04:14:25 Yep......and now you just need use it. Connect the ground side to the negative battery terminal when you do the tests.....or at least something that you know will give you a good ground while you are making the tests. I made some wires with small alligator clips on each end to help with my meter.....I can clip one end on the negative battery terminal and the other end on the negative probe of the meter, and I can walk all around the bike while still connected to the battery. Dave |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by pgambr on 08/15/14 at 04:20:57 Will do, thanks again! |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by pgambr on 08/15/14 at 06:54:00 I looked at it a bit before I have to go to work and the horn doesn't work as well. I took apart the assembly on the left side of the handle bars as well. I learning to use the multimeter I picked up from HF. If you can offer some insight, please do. Thanks again. |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by pgambr on 08/15/14 at 07:52:22 Quote:
The orange wire doesn't have any juice. |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by Dave on 08/15/14 at 10:05:14 The orange wire.....where? That big orange wire come from the ignition switch, then through the fuse....then onto the handlebars and all other electric stuff. Wait a minute....did you check the fuse? :-/ Dave |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by verslagen1 on 08/15/14 at 13:50:44 The way the bike is wired, the lights and ignition share the hot wire. The bike won't run w/out the lights on. So that orange wire has to be hot. The break has to after the hot feed to the headlight. Check that you have 12v to the headlight, then check the ground from the headlight. You might have to have it running to check. Or will the headlight come on after turning the key and cut out while starting only? |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by pgambr on 08/15/14 at 19:26:22 A long day, just got back from work. Ok, the orange wire located in the high beam / horn switch didn't have any power. Everything works as normal except the headlight and the horn. Those do not work at all. I didn't check the fuses but it starts and everything else is working. Alright, I'm looking at my Clymer and I don't see an orange wire going to the Dimmer / Horn / Pass ? Headlight switches. There is a yellow that connects to the Pass / Dimmer / Headlight. A red & black wire connects the Pass / Dimmer / Horn. When I get off work tomorrow I’ll start tracing the orange, yellow and black wires. Is the grounding wire always black or perhaps black and another color? If you have any other thoughts please let me know. Thanks for your assistance, it is appreciated. |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by HondaLavis on 08/15/14 at 21:08:32 According to the 1996-2003 Savage wire diagram in the clymer's, your orange wire changes color after an electrical connector. It becomes a black/red wire that feeds power to your horn and dimmer switch. This orange wire originates from the orange/black coming out of the rectifier, and it feeds the neutral light and the side stand relay in addition to your identified trouble spots. Double check everything. Does your neutral light work? If you hotwire your side stand relay, does the problem go away? That orange/black wire also feeds the rear brake light switch. Does that work? What year is your bike? All of the same applies to the 2004, though it has even more circuits tied to that one wire. Black and black/white are your ground wires. ;) |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by youzguyz on 08/16/14 at 02:34:10 pgambr, your avatar says "S40", so have to assume it is 2004 or later. Restating what some others have said. From looking at Clymers: The horn and headlight hot line is black/orange. On the other side of the connector that sits under the tank on the left side, it is orange. It is not uncommon for that connector to come loose when replacing the gas tank. If the neutral light or speedo light works, you have 12 volts to the orange wire on the chassis. You can also check that wire on the connector for the ignition switch. If you have 12 volts on the orange line, my suggestion. Pull the tank. Reseat that connector (and maybe spray it out with contact cleaner) and see if that fixes your problem. If not, check for 12 volts on the orange side of the connector, if there, see if you get it on the black/orange side. While this is not a multi-meter, it is my weapon of choice when looking for voltage: http://www.harborfreight.com/circuit-tester-30779.html It has a needle point that you can poke through the insulation or worm into the back end of connectors, and the indicator light is in the handle. I must disagree with HondaLavis. Ground is always black/white, never black. (Except the wire that goes from the battery to the engine for chassis ground). |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by pgambr on 08/16/14 at 03:17:56 Thanks to all, I have been stumped! Off to work now, but I'll be sure to start checking things as soon as I get off. ;) |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by pgambr on 08/16/14 at 15:22:12 I started prodding around and I after I touched this the light kicked back on. Next question, what now? |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by Dave on 08/16/14 at 16:59:25 If you are talking about the connector....pull it apart, spray some contact cleaner in it, and poke it back together, and wiggle it around a bit to help restore the connections. Dave |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by pgambr on 08/16/14 at 17:05:13 I put the left headlight / horn switch assembly back together and I'm back to square one. NO headlight. >:( |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by pgambr on 08/17/14 at 14:42:47 4A5D5B5758483A0 wrote:
I learned a bit more about my problem; although, I still have a long way to go. 1. Regarding the connector (Picture previously provided), if you gently brush up to it the current travels correctly. 2. When that is working correctly the Headlight / Dimmer / Horn assembly has power. 3. When the Headlight / Dimmer / Horn assembly has power the head light will not come on unless you click the passer switch. 4. Regarding the connector, all those wires travel to the cutoff assembly that is near the throttle? 5. Now I'm really confused, please help if possible. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by verslagen1 on 08/17/14 at 14:57:03 At least you've narrowed it down to a connector or the control attached to it. What year did you say your bike was? I would start looking for a cheap replacement control. Swapping it out might fix it. |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by pgambr on 08/17/14 at 15:03:50 It's an 06. Also, the last time it did this the battery was at the end of it's life, that was 1.5 years ago. Just an observation and or similar circumstance. I'll have to start looking as well, thanks Verslagen. |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by verslagen1 on 08/17/14 at 16:04:41 here's one for an 07 http://www.ebay.com/itm/07-Suzuki-S40-Boulevard-LS650-650-RIGHT-HANDLEBAR-CONTROL-SWITCH-/131236644567?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e8e5046d7&vxp=mtr |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by pgambr on 08/17/14 at 16:16:43 Thanks Verslagen! I will get that on the way and book mark Pinwall Cycles webpage. |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by pgambr on 08/21/14 at 14:30:00 I got the part from Pinwall; incidentally, they shipped very fast and seem like a real good source for used parts. Regardless, same crap different day. I suppose my next option is to start clipping and rewiring. Please let me know your thoughts. |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by HondaLavis on 08/21/14 at 23:26:47 Did you check the large connector under the gas tank for any corrosion? If certain wires are losing connectivity when you move them, then narrow down the individual wires and places with a multimeter. Don't assume that splicing in a dozen wires in place of that connector is a good idea. |
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Title: Re: Intermittent Short Post by pgambr on 08/22/14 at 14:49:13 Quote:
Thanks for the reply Hondalavis. Yeah, the connector that sits on the right of the tank had just a little bit of corrosion. I tried replacing the front half with what Versalgen recommended. That was a real good idea, just no luck. I'm looking for my best next option. |
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