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Message started by stonetree on 08/04/14 at 09:40:02

Title: Won't start in cooler weather.
Post by stonetree on 08/04/14 at 09:40:02

I purchased a 2003 Savage at the beginning of summer. I recently started riding it to work occasionally. On cool mornings, around 60 degrees or cooler, the bike does not want to start. (Yes, I use the choke.) It tries to turn over but doesn't quite make it. I only hold the start button in for maybe 3-4 seconds a try so the starter doesn't overheat. I get maybe 2-3 tries to start it before the battery doesn't have enough juice to even try to turn it over.

I've been testing the battery to see if it's good. And, I've had it on a battery tender when it's going to be a cool night. After being on the battery tender, it checks in at around 13.10 volts. If I leave it off the battery tender, the charge only drops to around 12.9 volts after 3-4 days. Since the battery seems to keep a charge, I would think the battery is okay.

After riding it, the battery shows around 13.4 volts, so I know it's charging.

There's no problem starting it in warmer weather (above 70) without using the choke.

Could it still be the battery?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Title: Re: Won't start in cooler weather.
Post by verslagen1 on 08/04/14 at 09:42:47

what's the voltage while starting?

could be you don't need to choke it?

Title: Re: Won't start in cooler weather.
Post by Serowbot on 08/04/14 at 09:45:19

If you can,.. try jumping it from a car battery, on one of these cool mornings... (do not have the car engine running, it's alternator output can damage your bike's electrics)...

If it starts well with a jump,.. you need a new battery...

Cooler weather, means thicker oil... makes it harder for the starter to turn the engine over... that's when a weak battery shows it's stripes...

Title: Re: Won't start in cooler weather.
Post by stonetree on 08/04/14 at 10:15:17

504354554A4741434817260 wrote:

what's the voltage while starting?

could be you don't need to choke it?

I'll have to check the voltage when while starting. Haven't done that.

So, having the choke out could prevent it from starting? How is that?

Title: Re: Won't start in cooler weather.
Post by stonetree on 08/04/14 at 10:16:34

5E485F425A4F42592D0 wrote:

I put Rotella T6 in it. I thought synthetic made it easier to start in cold weather.

Title: Re: Won't start in cooler weather.
Post by verslagen1 on 08/04/14 at 10:19:55

7362636079756473010 wrote:

[quote author=504354554A4741434817260 link=1407170402/0#1 date=1407170567]what's the voltage while starting?

could be you don't need to choke it?

I'll have to check the voltage when while starting. Haven't done that.

So, having the choke out could prevent it from starting? How is that?[/quote]
60° isn't cold. (imagine that... a Californian said it)

Title: Re: Won't start in cooler weather.
Post by Serowbot on 08/04/14 at 10:41:04

Synth oil helps, but it won't fix a weak battery...

Title: Re: Won't start in cooler weather.
Post by Dave on 08/04/14 at 11:15:56

544544475E524354260 wrote:

It tries to turn over but doesn't quite make it. I only hold the start button in for maybe 3-4 seconds a try so the starter doesn't overheat. I get maybe 2-3 tries to start it before the battery doesn't have enough juice to even try to turn it over.

Title: Re: Won't start in cooler weather.
Post by stonetree on 08/04/14 at 11:22:06

0F34392E3F33282E353D302F5C0 wrote:

[quote author=544544475E524354260 link=1407170402/0#0 date=1407170402] It tries to turn over but doesn't quite make it. I only hold the start button in for maybe 3-4 seconds a try so the starter doesn't overheat. I get maybe 2-3 tries to start it before the battery doesn't have enough juice to even try to turn it over.

Using the terms "turn over".....can be confusing for us, and it appears it can be confusing to you as well.

If you tell me the engine "won't turn over" - I believe you are telling me the starter won't rotate the crankshaft. If you tell the me the engine "won't start" or "won't fire" - then I believe the starter rotates the engine but the engine won't start or run.

I believe you are telling us the battery will turn the engine over, and that the engine won't start....but the starter will continue to turn the engine over for a few tries.

If you only get 2 or 3 tries for a 3-4 seconds each try.....that sounds like a pretty weak battery.

Dave

[/quote]

Dave,

That is exactly what I meant. Sorry for any confusion.
So, even though it holds a charge, the battery may still be the problem?

What is the suggested brand/model of battery to get as a replacement? I haven't had much luck finding it through the forum search tool.

Thanks.

Title: Re: Won't start in cooler weather.
Post by Dave on 08/04/14 at 11:49:42

I am not sure that it makes a lot of difference which battery you buy. I prefer a AGM (glass matt) or gell battery - but they tend you give you very little notice they are going to fail....they work, and then suddenly they don't. The Lead Acid batteries work....but they can leak and you have to keep up with checking the fluid.

A friend that works on motorcycles a lot prefers the batteries that are made in Japan over the Chinese ones - but you could spend a lot of time shopping around to find it. My local Honda dealer sells the Bike Master brand that are made in China. I got one and it lasted 3 weeks, it has a 1 year warranty so they gave me another and the next one worked fine.

Dave

Title: Re: Won't start in cooler weather.
Post by Seaweednh on 08/04/14 at 12:01:10

Just keep in mind the terminal location, which polarity on which side and the orientation of the vent tube to the terminals.

Title: Re: Won't start in cooler weather.
Post by stonetree on 08/04/14 at 12:30:23

Can AGM be used with a battery tender?

If I ask for a battery for a 2003 LS650, shouldn't the correct polarity be a given? Or, do I still have to specify?

Title: Re: Won't start in cooler weather.
Post by BobH on 08/04/14 at 15:16:30

5C4D4C4F565A4B5C2E0 wrote:

So, even though it holds a charge, the battery may still be the problem?

The voltage of a battery is not an indication of the capacity of the battery. The only way to check the condition of a battery is to check its ability to deliver the amperage needed, which can only be done under LOAD conditions as already suggested. A battery can lose its ability to provide sufficient amperage for starting, yet still reach a full charge of 12 or 13 volts. Under load, a weak battery's voltage will drop due to its inability to supply sufficient current that is being demanded by the circuit. A drop of a volt or two is fairly typical in a high demand starting circuit. If it drops down to 9 volts or lower, I'd be looking for another battery. I'm not as familiar with the S40 demands as others here are, so they may give you a different and more accurate rule of thumb for minimal voltage during a starting load test.

Title: Re: Won't start in cooler weather.
Post by HondaLavis on 08/04/14 at 16:20:37

746564677E726374060 wrote:

Can AGM be used with a battery tender?

If I ask for a battery for a 2003 LS650, shouldn't the correct polarity be a given? Or, do I still have to specify?

This depends on who you shop from. Some places will look at the necessary specs of the battery and simply find one that matches closely. Just because it has the right CCA doesn't mean the terminals are in the right place.

AGM batteries can be charged normally. Li-ion batteries are also a great alternative. EarthX seems to be the recommended brand as they have the necessary charge monitoring circuitry built in.

Title: Re: Won't start in cooler weather.
Post by Seaweednh on 08/04/14 at 19:39:33

607170736A667760120 wrote:

Can AGM be used with a battery tender?

If I ask for a battery for a 2003 LS650, shouldn't the correct polarity be a given? Or, do I still have to specify?

I asked at my regular parts store and delivered it. The vent tube exit of to the wrong side. Be aware if you pick one up to same a trip back or worse case you add the acid, charge it, and then find out.

Title: Re: Won't start in cooler weather.
Post by bobert_FSO on 08/04/14 at 19:57:03

What BobH said. The voltage reading at rest doesn't tell the whole story. See what it reads when you attempt to crank the engine. If it drops to 10 volts, the solid state ignitor will not have enough voltage to spark the spark plug, even if the starter can turn the engine over.

I just had a battery go out on one of the cars. I took it to the store in the evening, but it wouldn't even light the dash symbols the next morning. Voltage was about 12.5 volts. I put it on a charger, but the charger indicated that the battery was already charged. I kept the voltmeter on while turning on the key. Voltage dropped from 12.5 to 5 volts just trying to energize the system.

The battery had an internal failure. It had voltage, but no capacity.

Title: Re: Won't start in cooler weather.
Post by stonetree on 08/05/14 at 07:54:22

Seems like my battery is crap. I tested the voltage while starting the bike last night. I started it a couple times in a row. The voltage dropped to around 9 volts the first time I started it and down to around 7 volts the second time I started it.

I called my local motorcycle shop. They suggested Yuasa batteries. Are they good batteries?

On the Yuasa website, their LS650 battery is $98.99.
On the EarthX website, their LS650 battery is $219. Seems kinda expensive for a battery.
Anyone used Power Source batteries? Their battery is $80 at BikeBandit.
BikeMaster battery reviews seem both good and bad. So, not sure about them.

Title: Re: Won't start in cooler weather.
Post by Serowbot on 08/05/14 at 08:18:24

I have a BikeMaster glass mat... it's been fine for the last year or so...

A lot of people like BigCrank from on-line... I like to buy local when I can, so I got the Bikemaster here for a similar price... about $70.00...

Title: Re: Won't start in cooler weather.
Post by engineer on 08/05/14 at 08:25:19

I bought a battery at a local place called The Battery House. Because they only sell batteries the ones they have in stock are factory fresh. I think most areas have a battery only retailer. They are cheaper than a motorcycle shop or auto parts store and cheaper than mail order when you consider shipping. They test your old one before selling you a new one and being battery specialists they understand your application.

I bought and AGM battery from them for a little less than $70. They sold me one that is made in a factory in south central PA.

Title: Re: Won't start in cooler weather.
Post by stonetree on 08/05/14 at 11:31:00

There's a Napa less than a mile from my house. They have an AGM battery for $80. I think it's actually made by East Penn Manufacturing (Deka).....and only has a 6 month warranty.

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Battery-NAPA-Power-Sport-Legend-Premium-AGM/_/R-SBEETX15L_0374448468#

Title: Re: Won't start in cooler weather.
Post by Seaweednh on 08/05/14 at 11:44:39

Don't be afraid to ask for a discount but do it with confidence. You should be able to get up to 40% off. I never pay full price even at the parts stores I don't have accounts at.

Title: Re: Won't start in cooler weather.
Post by stonetree on 08/07/14 at 03:26:36

506662746666676D6B030 wrote:

Don't be afraid to ask for a discount but do it with confidence. You should be able to get up to 40% off. I never pay full price even at the parts stores I don't have accounts at.

Well....I was able to get a %10 discount with my AAA card. Not %40, but I'll take it. :)