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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> To Wrench or Not to Wrench /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1406857451 Message started by ByMySword on 07/31/14 at 18:44:11 |
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Title: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by ByMySword on 07/31/14 at 18:44:11 Hello all, So I'm facing a bit of a conundrum at the moment. Planning a ride with a Brother in September and I'm trying to get the bike in tip top shape. Currently, she needs new tires and probably new brake pads/shoes installed (last ones installed were in October of last year), and a tune up. I've already purchased the tires (Shinko 712s), and pads/shoes, so I have all those parts. Now I've already read a lot on how some modifications may be needed to put the rear Shinko 712 on since it is a slightly wider tire (140/90-15). I have saddlebag mounts on the side fender rails and I really don't want to have to take them off since they were kind of a hassle to put on the first place and I'll need the luggage space for the ride in September. The issue here is a combination of lack of money and lack of experience. On the one hand, even though I don't have all the tools at my disposal, I would be willing to invest in acquiring them in order to learn to do these tasks myself. I'm assuming (and we all know what happens when people do that) that this would alleviate the cost concerns. However, my complete lack of experience working on the tires, brakes, and drive belt concern me. Especially with the larger rear tire concerns, I would hate to screw something up before a good ride. Then again, if I don't try, how will I ever learn? So I am asking all you better experienced wrenchers' opinions on whether I should attempt this feat or not since it probably isn't a feat at your experience level anyway. What say you? To wrench or not to wrench? ;) Respects, Sword |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by Seaweednh on 07/31/14 at 19:07:08 This is a hard call to make not knowing much about the experience you do have. Second issue, brakes and tires, is this really where you want to learn? It could be very costly if you don't understand exactly what you are doing and why. This is just my honest opinion. I ask this only because there may be someone close by that can take a second look to make sure your doing it right. Where are you located? |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by 1st2know on 07/31/14 at 19:43:09 Wrench it: - Get comfortable with taking the seat and tank off. This allows you to see how the machine is put together. - Start with simple things, like brakes, tires, spark plug, oil/air filter and oil change. - Don't worry about breaking things yet. Once you become more familiar with how the machine is put together, and knowing how to navigate this site, you'll be in a good position to know how not to break things, and, how to fix them if you do. The most frustrating problem is snapping a bolt off. It can be fixed, with patience and finesse. - Not wrenching this motorcycle will probably lead to more problems that wrenching it. If your turning the bolts on this thing, it's probably going to be done right...eventually :) - You'll probably never have to take the engine out, or apart. You may have to take the carb out once. - Most motorcycle wrenching is to inspect and adjust things. Have a camera ready so you can ask "Is this thing 'sposed to be bent like this?" - You will get oil leaks. They can be fixed. And, unless it's gushing oil, that work can be scheduled for the off season. So yes, wrench it. Take your time. You can accumulate the tools you need over time. The cost of the tools is usually cheaper than shop labor, and, you don't have to figure out how to get the bike to the shop and back. |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by Silverhippi on 07/31/14 at 20:36:25 Hey, I had to remove my saddle bag supports because the mounting hardware was rubbing the right side of my slightly larger than stock tire. I didn't mean to go larger than stock I just replaced the size that was on the rim. I'm planning to get 1/2 taller shocks, when funds allow, to solve the problem and then Viking Hard Bags. http://www.vikingbags.com/viking-lamellar-leather-covered-shock-cutout-hard-saddlebag-11880-prd1.htm?pSearchQueryId=192510 There's lots of stuff I want to tweak but the absolute next thing is the Verslagen Adjuster to remove the live hand grenade from inside my engine. |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by verslagen1 on 07/31/14 at 20:51:24 pass on the tires do the brakes do the tune up; sparky, valves, filters, oil. |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by S-P on 07/31/14 at 22:00:13 170413120D0006040F50610 wrote:
Concur. If you take the bike to a shop for the rear tire, just have them replace the bolts that go through the rear fender with cap heads as long as they are right there. I shouldn't be more than 15-30 minutes of labor on their part. My mechanic did it for free just because. |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by WD on 08/01/14 at 01:04:02 Forget the tires. Even with access to a couple tire machines, I hate changing Savage tires. Still recovering from a nearly to the bone deep gash/burn on my right index finger that I got the first part of July. Need to open my 03 up this weekend and swap in the CCT out of my deceased 98. Another essential if less than fun task. I'll hit 5600 miles on it since mid-April on my way to a meeting later this morning... and it had 7157.5 on it when I bought it. Kinda pushing my luck, it is getting a bit noisy in there... Forget the rear brake shoes, just reset the travel on your current ones. I'm the only person here to consistently wear out rear shoes, because the stock front brake on my 98 never worked correctly in the 12 years it was roadworthy. Change your oil and filters, if you have better than 3/16" of tread on your tires top them up and enjoy your trip. |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by ByMySword on 08/01/14 at 06:37:11 0F393D2B39393832345C0 wrote:
Maybe I should have been a little more specific about the experience that I have so far. I already change my own oil, oil filter, and air filter. Last year, with the help of this site I learned to disassemble the bike as far as the seats, odometer, and tank. I took apart the carb, cleaned it, and replaced the float valves. I also replaced the stock petcock with the Raptor. The only other thing I've done since then is mount the saddlebag mounts on the side rear fender. I totally understand what you're saying. I guess its just a pride thing of doing it myself, plus the money issue. And if I don't learn now, when do I learn? |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by ByMySword on 08/01/14 at 06:40:35 73313670292C2D35420 wrote:
Could you expand on this please? Quote:
Good idea. Thanks Quote:
I do have the infamous oil leak from the engine head. Its not that bad, just annoying and from what I've read its not really worth it to get it fixed anyway. |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by ByMySword on 08/01/14 at 06:47:40 170413120D0006040F50610 wrote:
Don't you have to take the tires off to do the brakes? Or at least disassemble the bike to the point where taking the tires off wouldn't be that much more difficult? Quote:
So that should that allow me to keep my saddlebag mounts on? I feel I could do that myself. Do you know what size cap heads? |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by ByMySword on 08/01/14 at 06:50:58 5F4C080 wrote:
I'm really showing how much of a newb I really am today. I hadn't even considered to look at tire machines. I figured most people just usually did it with hand tools Quote:
What is the CCT? Quote:
What does resetting the travel mean? |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by verslagen1 on 08/01/14 at 07:20:56 714A7E4A60445C4157330 wrote:
Rear yes, front no, but I was talking tires, not wheels. When you get the tires done, take the wheels off the bike and take it into the shop. while the wheels are off, do the brakes. Quote:
Quote:
Use Button allen heads, you'll have to measure how long, or remove and take 'm w/you. |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by Seaweednh on 08/01/14 at 07:21:03 447F4B7F5571697462060 wrote:
Maybe I should have been a little more specific about the experience that I have so far. I already change my own oil, oil filter, and air filter. Last year, with the help of this site I learned to disassemble the bike as far as the seats, odometer, and tank. I took apart the carb, cleaned it, and replaced the float valves. I also replaced the stock petcock with the Raptor. The only other thing I've done since then is mount the saddlebag mounts on the side rear fender. I totally understand what you're saying. I guess its just a pride thing of doing it myself, plus the money issue. And if I don't learn now, when do I learn? [/quote] Fair enough, we all had to learn at some time. My concern is that you are on two wheels and asking whether you should tackle it or not means your not sure of yourself. My concern is your personal safety doing the tires and brakes, With that said, please buy a service manual for your bike. It does give step by step instructions on what you want to do. I've been turning wrenches for over 40 years, made more mistakes than I care to count, mainly in my younger years. Once again, my only concern is your personal safety, nothing else, |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by HondaLavis on 08/01/14 at 07:47:21 CCT = Camchain tensioner. Front brakes require you only to remove the caliper. You might take an hour or two if it's your first time and you're drinking a lot of beer. That is definitely something you should wrench yourself. On the right side of the drum just above the brake link arm are limit marks. When the brake pedal is pressed, the notch in the arm should be between those two limits. Rear drums are not self-adjusting like the ones in your car. If it is beyond the limit, you have to turn the adjuster on the rear brake cable. You simply rotate the nut to extend the cable until the adjustment is back within limits. Usually you can just do it with your fingers - no tools required! :D Only when you have run out of adjustment do you need to replace the rear brake shoes. If you need to get your tires done, let a shop do them. Most shops will mount for $15-20 a tire. IMHO, that is worth the hassle. |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by ByMySword on 08/01/14 at 07:55:59 554651504F4244464D12230 wrote:
Quote:
Great, thanks |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by ByMySword on 08/01/14 at 07:59:59 1A2C283E2C2C2D2721490 wrote:
You're right, I'm not sure and I don't want to do something unsafe. I've never been very dexterous, unfortunately. I do have the Clymer Service Manual, though. I'm still in my younger years, I guess, and I'm okay with making mistakes, I just don't want those mistakes to threaten my safety or my wallet. Thank you for your input. I also realized I missed your initial question of my location. I'm located in the Houston area. |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by ByMySword on 08/01/14 at 08:08:33 143332383D103D2A352F5C0 wrote:
Wow, great to know, thanks! I've been getting some different quotes from people either online or know personally for how much shops charge for the labor of changing tires. Some have ranged from low like yours to around $75 and even over $100. I don't want to get screwed. I noticed you're in the Killeen area. Ironically that's where we're going on our trip. One of our Army buddies recently got stationed there and another one is just getting back from deployment, so we're organizing a reunion. Not telling our buddy in Killeen though. We're just going to show up and surprise him. |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by verslagen1 on 08/01/14 at 08:56:03 704B7F4B61455D4056320 wrote:
I think that's just for mounting the tire on the wheel, not for taking the wheel off the bike... just to be clear. |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by 1st2know on 08/01/14 at 10:06:27 5A6155614B6F776A7C180 wrote:
Could you expand on this please?[/quote] Sure - here are 3 examples of how wrenching extends the life of the machine: - Taking the head cover off allows you to inspect the condition of cam and valve tappets. If something is going wrong with oil flow, you can see symptoms of it here. Catching problems here will add thousands of miles to the machine. - Removing the clutch cover allows you to inspect the cam chain, and cam chain tensioner. Problems here can cause end of life for the machine. Catching a problem here could mean the difference of junking the machine at 15,000 mi. or riding it way past 30,000 mi. - Pulling the drive pulley occasionally will allow you to inspect the condition of the splines on the drive shaft. Catching a problem here and you avoid having an engine that starts right up, but can't turn the rear wheel, rendering the engine effectively useless. For the most part, these 3 jobs cost very little, unless you find a problem, then the cost to remedy is cheap compared to the risk of junking the bike. Finding a problem in any of these three examples is probably not going to cost more than $100 USD in parts or machining. Not doing these things, I doubt the machine will see 20,000 miles. |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by ByMySword on 08/01/14 at 10:33:24 756671706F6264666D32030 wrote:
Oh, okay. Well its the getting the wheel off and on part that is the most concerning to me. I want to make sure its properly aligned and everything. From what I've read and seen, getting the tire off an on is tedious but fairly simple. I think I could handle that much. |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by Dave on 08/01/14 at 10:37:12 I just wrestled with the tire changing issue. I have no problem unbolting/bolting the wheels on and off the bike, so the decision to take the wheels to someone with a machine to change the tires off the rim became the next question. I got a quote of $30 and $35 from the 2 local shops. I have tire irons, 4 plastic protectors for the rims, and a nice garage to work in....and I decided the $60 - $70 was more money than I wanted to spend for them to change the tires...and for me to worry about them scratching my rims. So I decided to change the tires myself....it is something I have experience in and am comfortable doing. Time to mount and dismount the wheels - 1 Hour. Time to break the bead, remove one side of the tire, remove the tube, remove the other side of tire, install one side of new tire, install new tube, air up tube to straighten kinks out of tube, let air out of tube, install other side of tire, slightly air up tire to straighten kinks out of tube, let air out of tire and install valve stem core, air up tire and not have bead seat fully, let out air and push bead around a bit, install valve core and inflate tire again, fuss around with the bead a little, then fully air tire.....1 hour each. Total time to remove wheels, old tires, install new tires, install wheels on bike....3 hours....about $ 20 an hour for my time. If you have never mounted a tire before.....find someone local to either help you....or go help them mount a tire on their bike. Dirt bike guys often have flats and get plenty of experience! (And working on tires that have 1 or 2 rims locks or are 6 ply desert racing tires always makes it more challenging). Dave |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by ByMySword on 08/01/14 at 10:43:53 6E2C2B6D343130285F0 wrote:
Thanks for all the information. I really appreciate it. |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by ByMySword on 08/01/14 at 10:46:58 6D565B4C5D514A4C575F524D3E0 wrote:
Thanks for the time estimate and advice. As it just so happens I do have a friend who has some experience with dirt bikes. I know he would help me out. |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by splash07 on 08/01/14 at 11:59:00 wrench, always wrench. |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by verslagen1 on 08/01/14 at 13:57:41 To wrench, or not to wrench, that is the question— Whether 'tis Cheaper in the mind to sling Outrageous Fortunes at the stealership, Or to take wrenches against a Sea of troubles, And by Clymer's Ink end them? To tune, to mod— No more; and by the ride, to say we end The butte-ache, and the thousand Natural shocks That Flesh is heir to? 'Tis a consummation Devoutly to wrench. To tune, to mod, To mod, perchance to Dream; Aye, there's the rub, For in that work of wrench, what dreams may come, When we have cut off this ignition coil, That gave us pause. There's the aspect That makes Calamity of so long a life; For who could bear the Corrosion and Scratches of time, The Previous Owners wrong, the tax man's levy, The pangs of despised V-twins, the Law’s decree, That insolence of the DMV Office, and the Spurns of the unworthy caged, When he himself might ride With bare head? Who would these Liberals bear, To grunt and sweat under a weary Helm, Perchance to be injured and laid bare, To leave the undiscovered Country, from roads bourn No Rider returns, And makes us rather bear those hungers we have, And fly to cities that we know not of. Thus Cost does make Cowards of us all, And thus the Native hue of Paint Is sprayed o'er, with the dark cast of Black, And chains of great pitch and length, With this Mod their rpms turn slower, And lose the harm of Vibration. Softly now, Hand and feet. no longer Buzzing, In all thy Fingers and toes, Come Monday, all my bills remembered. (poor Shakespeare) ;D |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by HondaLavis on 08/01/14 at 14:25:49 766572736C6167656E31000 wrote:
I think that's just for mounting the tire on the wheel, not for taking the wheel off the bike... just to be clear.[/quote] The information I gave is what I paid to bring my bike in, have the shop remove the wheels, replace the tires, and reinstall the wheels on the bike. I paid $40. YMMV |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by S-P on 08/01/14 at 18:05:53 564552534C4147454E11200 wrote:
Dang that is awesome.... |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by MnSpring on 08/02/14 at 17:47:29 verslagen1 wrote a Assume, "Shakespeare', like, oricial. Now I am waiting for someone to do the same, in the voice/style, of Samuel Clemens. |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by ByMySword on 08/09/14 at 09:30:56 797E6F7C6F647A6B7F660A0 wrote:
Dang that is awesome.... [/quote] Indeed, and now that I have my muse, I have opted to wrench! I'll let you guys know how it goes. Thanks for all the advice. |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/09/14 at 09:48:21 good job Verslagen,, |
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Title: Re: To Wrench or Not to Wrench Post by verslagen1 on 08/09/14 at 12:23:10 42615C7F7D6661680F0 wrote:
Take prose and keyboard in hand and wait no longer. That piece was written in one morning, but the inspiration was built over many years. |
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