|
SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Sometimes oil smoke on start /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1405995432 Message started by JutMan on 07/21/14 at 19:17:12 |
|
Title: Sometimes oil smoke on start Post by JutMan on 07/21/14 at 19:17:12 Year: 2005 Model:s40 Modifications: Rejetted to the recommendations in post here Dyna muffler Petcock changed Carb cleaned Problem: Three of the last 15 times I started the bike there was oil smoke for about 30 seconds. I thought it was the Petcock so I replaced that with the raptor 550. Thought that had solved it, but it happened again yesterday. I did change the oil 2moths ago with the Suzuki synthetic. Any thoughts? Thanks, Justin |
|
Title: Re: Sometimes oil smoke on start Post by Drestakil on 07/21/14 at 19:34:36 I'm leaning toward thinking it's a valve seal on the exhaust valve. The engine may shut down with the valve open and a little oil seeps into the exhaust. You could pull the header pipe and see if there's oil there but it would be dependent on whether the valve was open when the engine stopped. Also keep in mind that this is just a WAG. |
|
Title: Re: Sometimes oil smoke on start Post by verslagen1 on 07/21/14 at 20:50:22 yeah, suzuki syn is crap for our bikes. you'll need to add a healthy dose of zddp. smoke is coming from... where? |
|
Title: Re: Sometimes oil smoke on start Post by Serowbot on 07/21/14 at 22:19:42 3 of 15,... is inconsistent... Mechanical problems are not.... (burnt valves don't come and go)... Are you getting condensation in your pipe?... sticky float valve?... needle slide?... Before you go chasing phantoms... I'd study the situation... Is it humid or damp?,.... hot or cold?,... hours or days?,... Look for some consistency... Finding the causation... before you start changing things, will get results faster than chasing gremlins... CSI a bit longer... I can see from your originating post that you are approaching this methodically,... Look for the consistent link, before you start making changes... Something is different... 3 times in 15... |
|
Title: Re: Sometimes oil smoke on start Post by Seaweednh on 07/22/14 at 00:56:05 How long after the oil change did it start smoking? Is the crank case overfilled? Checked with the bike in the upright position and with enough time for the oil to settle? Overfilled and it could pass the rings until they heat and expand. It could be a valve seal letting the oil run down the valve guide into the exhaust port. The oil would burn off at start up until the guide and valve heat up and reduce the clearance. What color is the smoke? White is water, blue is oil, and black is fuel. |
|
Title: Re: Sometimes oil smoke on start Post by Dave on 07/22/14 at 04:30:49 What color is the smoke? Black, light blue, white? Hold a mirror in front of the exhaust when it smokes. Condensation will leave water droplets on the mirror. Oil will leave an oily residue on the mirror. Excess fuel will leave fuel on the mirror, that will evaporate off. |
|
Title: Re: Sometimes oil smoke on start Post by JutMan on 07/23/14 at 19:41:16 Ill try to answer everything: I'm leaning toward thinking it's a valve seal on the exhaust valve. -- I thought about this myself. It may be due to the previous owner not adjusting something correctly. I was thinking they may have tried to gap the cam and did not leave enough space for the valve to close. It is a 2005 with ~ 8K miles on it and has never had anything done to it by me. I am not sure if possibly something needs services. you'll need to add a healthy dose of zddp -- I am not sure what ZDDP is, but I will look into it. I saw the oil wars on here any left that forum area none the wiser. Before you go chasing phantoms... I'd study the situation... Is it humid or damp?,.... hot or cold?,... hours or days?,... Look for some consistency... --So far, i have not found a consistency. The bike is stored outside covered. I have had it happen if I let it sit for a week or a few days. Not going well in NE PA for riding this year. How long after the oil change did it start smoking? --I changed the oil about 3 month ago when it started to warm up. The smoking is within the last month. Is the crank case overfilled? --I will tomorrow before I go to work. Checked with the bike in the upright position and with enough time for the oil to settle? -- Will do What color is the smoke? -- The smoke is light blue and smells of burning oil. I lasts for about 30 seconds, but holding my hand in the exhaust for a few seconds after the smoke clears does nto smell of oil anymore. At this point I am almost afraid to drive it for fear of the engine seizing or burning a valve. Forgot to mention, it does backfire now and again when slowing down. Almost always backfires when I shut it off. Another reason I was thinking maladjusted exhaust valve. I paid $1500 for it as a first bike. I would not want to sink $1000 into it rebuilding the engine. Since it is my first bike and I had to convince the accountant ( wife ) of the purchase it will nearly be impossible to replace. |
|
Title: Re: Sometimes oil smoke on start Post by JutMan on 07/23/14 at 19:46:19 Are you getting condensation in your pipe? -- Exhaust, most likely no garage so it is covered outside sticky float valve? -- Petcock was leaking gas into the air filter so that was changed. needle slide? -- Not sure how to check for that problem. Also, tuneup at the Suzuki dealer is ~$350 which they may be able to find the problem if they re-adjust everything properly. Just not wanting to drop too much cash. Just popped $300 for tires and still need to replace the front brakes. |
|
Title: Re: Sometimes oil smoke on start Post by Drestakil on 07/23/14 at 20:16:59 073839002C234D0 wrote:
If the oil lever is good I wouldn't be afraid to ride it. There are dozens of threads on here that cover the backfiring when letting off the throttle and the bang when you shut down. It seems to be the nature of the beast. Those can be controlled to some extent with a little carb work. I just pull the choke before I turn off the key so it doesn't sound like a shotgun going off. The general consensus on here seems to be that Shell Rotella T or T6 or the synth version is a valid choice. I'm like you, thinking that oil designed for motorcycles should be safer than oil designed for diesel engines. But I switched to Rotella anyway and it seems to be doing fine. As far as taking the bike to the dealer, that was one of the main reasons I bought the S40, so I could work on it myself. This site is a fantastic resource for that. |
|
Title: Re: Sometimes oil smoke on start Post by S-P on 07/23/14 at 20:41:59 4877764F636C020 wrote:
ALL Savages backfire. You can chase the backfire with carb mods, air cleaners and exhausts and it will still backfire, maybe just not as loud. If you don't like the backfire on shut down then pull the choke out and hit the kill switch and it won't backfire. Just be sure you push the choke back in and re-set your kill switch. You could try adjusting the valves if you have no service records just for peace of mind. Otherwise I'd say just ride it and watch your oil consumption for a few weeks and see what happens. Mine was blowing smoke for a while then it just stopped. No clue why it started or stopped. |
|
Title: Re: Sometimes oil smoke on start Post by verslagen1 on 07/23/14 at 20:49:05 1E212019353A540 wrote:
If the petcock was leaking and it leaked into the air filter, then the float valve was leaking too. maybe not enough to be a problem while running but shows age and about to get worse. What petcock did you change to? Quote:
I'm not sure what he meant either, but sometimes the float valve is referred to as a needle valve which I addressed earlier. |
|
Title: Re: Sometimes oil smoke on start Post by verslagen1 on 07/23/14 at 20:55:07 It seems to me that you had a leaking petcock and a leaking float valve. you said it wetted the air filter, but the flow of gas can also go the other way into the piston and crankcase. Perhaps it got as far as the piston, washed down the walls and became oily gas and was blown out the exhaust before it started. Anyway, I don't think you have signs of a major catastrophe waiting to happen. but have you checked your cam chain? |
|
Title: Re: Sometimes oil smoke on start Post by Seaweednh on 07/24/14 at 04:52:09 "What color is the smoke? -- The smoke is light blue and smells of burning oil. I lasts for about 30 seconds, but holding my hand in the exhaust for a few seconds after the smoke clears does nto smell of oil anymore." This tells a lot. There is only two common ways to burn oil. First is passing by the rings and the second is seepage from the valve guides. Now that you know it's oil burning by color and smell you can eliminate a Loy of potential causes. You can forget about the carb, pet com, chain tensioner, etc. Also, it has nothing to do with the valve adjustment either. If the exhaust valve wasn't closing, the bike isn't going to run. I haven't looked to see what kind of valve seals our bikes use. But you will need to valve springs to install it. Most guys will tell you you have to take the head off to do this, you don't. If you have a compression tester you put an air hose to it on the compression stroke of the engine (make sure the bike in in gear). This will keep the valve tight against the seat so that you can remove the springs and change the seal. If you don't hand a compression tester you can make the tool with an old spark plug (you have to break the porcelain out of it) |
|
Title: Re: Sometimes oil smoke on start Post by JutMan on 07/24/14 at 10:46:01 What petcock did you change to? I ordered the Raptor 550 as suggested in the forums. Unfortunately, i ordered the OEM part but got a China knockoff. Going to have to re-order to get the correct part eventually. I checked the oil level this morning. It is over full. When the bike is on a lean it is to the full mark. When I stand it up, the entire window is covered. As suggested also, because of the petcock issue, I have a new filter and plan on getting some of the Rotella oil that was suggested. Not sure if I should get the T5 or the T6 which seems to be a difference in weight. I have the oil additive ZDDP on order from Amazon which should be here on Friday along with the filter. |
|
Title: Re: Sometimes oil smoke on start Post by verslagen1 on 07/24/14 at 10:56:27 You want rotella T or T6 an the model raptor is the 660. I'd order it by the part number listed in the tech section post. As long as the filter is fresh, I don't think you need to change it. |
|
Title: Re: Sometimes oil smoke on start Post by JutMan on 07/24/14 at 12:29:34 140710110E0305070C53620 wrote:
Correct, that was a typo, it is a 660. If you search on Amazon for the Raptor 660, the official part says Yamaha, but i got the knockoff. The output on the petcock was too small. I was able to get a new fuel line to make it work. They gave me a $15 discount back as it was nto the right part. I made a post on the part that it was not the OEM. Going to check today for the oil on the way home. I was not sure if it was good to mix the oils as some would be left in the filter. |
|
Title: Re: Sometimes oil smoke on start Post by JutMan on 07/24/14 at 12:42:19 53544556454E5041554C200 wrote:
ALL Savages backfire. You can chase the backfire with carb mods, air cleaners and exhausts and it will still backfire, maybe just not as loud. If you don't like the backfire on shut down then pull the choke out and hit the kill switch and it won't backfire. Just be sure you push the choke back in and re-set your kill switch. You could try adjusting the valves if you have no service records just for peace of mind. Otherwise I'd say just ride it and watch your oil consumption for a few weeks and see what happens. Mine was blowing smoke for a while then it just stopped. No clue why it started or stopped. [/quote] I did drill out the plug and adjust the pilot. I will check that on Friday when I have time to work on it again. I may screw it back to start and back it out the 1 - 2 turns again to see if that resolves the backfire on shutoff. I do not pull the chock out and typically shut it off with the kill switch. I am not sure if the kill switch is different than just using the key to shut it off. |
|
Title: Re: Sometimes oil smoke on start Post by S-P on 07/24/14 at 16:06:01 506F6E577B741A0 wrote:
Kill switch is just easier to get to. I'd pretty much guarantee that messing with the pilot screw with everything else stock won't solve the backfire. |
|
Title: Re: Sometimes oil smoke on start Post by JutMan on 07/24/14 at 20:29:50 76716073606B75647069050 wrote:
Kill switch is just easier to get to. I'd pretty much guarantee that messing with the pilot screw with everything else stock won't solve the backfire. [/quote] I have already replaced the jets with recommended setup. I have not tinkered with the little washer on the top side of the carb yet. Not sure how critical that is. |
|
Title: Re: Sometimes oil smoke on start Post by Steve H on 07/24/14 at 21:33:42 That's say 1/8 to 3/4 where it is noticeable. Won't help a bit for idle or shutdown noises. Makes you be able to accelerate without having a dead spot coming off if idle. |
|
Title: Re: Sometimes oil smoke on start Post by S-P on 07/24/14 at 21:53:41 6B54556C404F210 wrote:
I did the jets and spacer etc. etc. and still have a POOT! on shut down and a bit of burping when I shift, but the bike runs great. Like I always say sometimes, "tune it to run, not stop". ;) |
|
Title: Re: Sometimes oil smoke on start Post by JutMan on 07/26/14 at 16:52:23 Update: 1. Oil changed to Rotella T with a new K&N filter. Smoked when i started it before I changed the oil. Will start it again tomorrow. The oil is no longer overfull. 2 Q put it right up to the line. 2. ZDDP came in, I am not sure if I still need it when using the Rotella T 3. I found the boss seat mod on the forums! I made a trip to True Value hardware. They hooked me up with the rubber corks and I found a square of rubber to made the mid spacer. I no longer feel like I am always sliding down. 4. Replaced the front brakes and they are a bit touchy. Need to go used to that. 5. Adjusted the pilot. Still backfiring on shutdown. I am not getting the pop pop pop when throttling down now! Next step will be the need to find new front and rear pegs. I kind of hate the giant rubber blocks. If anyone has a good write up with screen shots it would help. I get the general concept, but I need more details. |
|
Title: Re: Sometimes oil smoke on start Post by Dave on 07/26/14 at 18:33:01 When it pops on shut down - it is because the spark plug stopped sparking when you turned off the ignition - but the engine was still turning and still pulling air and fuel through the carb. It pumped that unburned fuel into the hot exhaust system, and when the fuel/air mixture reached a high enough temperature....it ignited. It is in no way a sign of anything being wrong with your engine. Learn to embrace it....part of owning a big single. You can reduce the chances of it happening by letting the engine idle for a few seconds before you kill the ignition. If you pull off the highway and instantly turn off the ignition - you are pretty much guaranteed you will get a shutdown pop. Dave |
|
Title: Ready to use foot pegs Post by Seaweednh on 07/26/14 at 18:49:48 Here are some ready to use foot pegs. http://m.ebay.com/itm?itemId=120409016228 |
|
SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |