SuzukiSavage.com - Print Page

SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Flooding carb during warm-up idle
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1405374131

Message started by jman on 07/14/14 at 14:42:11

Title: Flooding carb during warm-up idle
Post by jman on 07/14/14 at 14:42:11

In reference to my wife's bike:

1995 Savage
22,000+ miles
Full tank of non-ethanol 87 octane (filled up 13 July, this thread posted 14 July)
No mods to fuel system, engine, or exhaust.
Fresh NGK DPR7EA-9 spark plug about a week to 10 days ago.

The bike starts and idles just fine when it's stone-cold (air temp between 60-80 F) using 1/2 choke. During what I'm referring to as a "transition" period between cold and full operating temperature, the bike will not run with 1/2 choke, but will sputter and die without throttle input. However, adding throttle to it will cause the carburetor to flood and overflow.

Idle mixture screw is set at 1.5 turns out (did that today, too)

Mostly what I did today was to pull the float bowl off the carb, clean the jets, clean the float needle and seat, and reposition (several times) the float needle so it will close sooner.

That didn't seem to help it.

About the only way that the bike works the way it's supposed to is if you get on it and ride as soon as it's running, regardless of engine temperature, and then only if you really wind the gears out. 1-2 shift between 25 and 30 mph, 2-3 above 40, etc. Only after riding it hard like that for about 2-3 miles will it idle like it's supposed to, otherwise it will kill when you pull the clutch in.

I'm all out of ideas on what I need to do.

Title: Re: Flooding carb during warm-up idle
Post by Tocsik on 07/14/14 at 14:53:15

No mods to fuel system? I would start with a Raptor petcock. Your stock vacuum petcock is 19 years old. could be goin' out on ya.

Title: Re: Flooding carb during warm-up idle
Post by jman on 07/14/14 at 15:05:25

I found the part and a video guide for installation, but it'll have to wait until Friday when I get paid.

The Yamaha part number is 5LP-24500-01-00.

The bikebandit.com part number is 1213144.

Title: Re: Flooding carb during warm-up idle
Post by Tocsik on 07/14/14 at 15:22:27

Yeah, my local shop had one in stock so I was able to get it right away and support the local guys!

Title: Re: Flooding carb during warm-up idle
Post by humblegeo on 07/14/14 at 15:24:41

Run petcock in prime, if you still have the have exact same problem, pull the carburetor and clean it.

Title: Re: Flooding carb during warm-up idle
Post by jman on 07/14/14 at 15:27:32

3F223A353B32303238570 wrote:

Run petcock in prime, if you still have the have exact same problem, pull the carburetor and clean it.

Wait...that doesn't make sense to me.

With the petcock in prime, the fuel flow is constant, regulated only by the float needle. If it's flooding in the "On" position while the bike is idling, wouldn't it flood in the "Prime" position as well?

Title: Re: Flooding carb during warm-up idle
Post by Seaweednh on 07/14/14 at 15:32:07

You can change your petcock but it's still going to flood. Clean your carb out. I would guess the needle and seat have crap in them or need replacing.

Title: Re: Flooding carb during warm-up idle
Post by jman on 07/14/14 at 15:38:37

1C2A2E382A2A2B21274F0 wrote:

You can change your petcock but it's still going to flood. Clean your carb out. I would guess the needle and seat have crap in them or need replacing.

Pardon my bluntness (I'm still learning what this "tact" thing is all about), but if you had read my original post in this thread properly, you would have seen that I cleaned the float needle and seat.

Humblegeo:

It started and ran just fine through 1/2 choke and the "transition" period at idle with the petcock on "Prime." Once it started transitioning to being warmed up, I switched it back to "On," and within about 15 seconds or so, it started coughing and sputtering like it did earlier today and yesterday.

Title: Re: Flooding carb during warm-up idle
Post by jman on 07/14/14 at 15:51:50

Ok, so I referenced this thread: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429/1

And I tried sucking on the petcock vacuum tube, and I got zero resistance (and zero fuel), and a sound like sucking on a straw.

Would a LEAKING vacuum line for the petcock cause it to act the way I have described?

I'm in the process of draining the tank right now with the intent of pulling the vacuum line off the petcock and checking it for leaks. I may have to run to O'Reilly's again today for some vacuum line.

Title: Re: Flooding carb during warm-up idle
Post by humblegeo on 07/14/14 at 16:15:08

Humblegeo:

It started and ran just fine through 1/2 choke and the "transition" period at idle with the petcock on "Prime." Once it started transitioning to being warmed up, I switched it back to "On," and within about 15 seconds or so, it started coughing and sputtering like it did earlier today and yesterday.

You didn't say that in your original post. Sounds like you have two problems: Petcock not working right in "on" position and float bowl needle valve not shutting off fuel to float bowl. Sorry for the confusion.

Title: Re: Flooding carb during warm-up idle
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/14/14 at 16:18:09

You should be able to pull the vacuum line any time. If there's gas there,the petcock is bad.

Title: Re: Flooding carb during warm-up idle
Post by jman on 07/14/14 at 16:25:25

I think I found the problem. This is the petcock end of the petcock vacuum line (with the spring removed).

Anyone else see what's wrong here?

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j300/Zulu71/DSC00233.jpg

Title: Re: Flooding carb during warm-up idle
Post by Serowbot on 07/14/14 at 16:39:18

I sure do,... that tabletop with the broken vac line on it, needs refinishing... :-?...

Title: Re: Flooding carb during warm-up idle
Post by Seaweednh on 07/14/14 at 16:58:19

73747877190 wrote:

A broken vac line will stave the carb, not flood it. Running the petcock in "prime" will be the same as with the raptor petcock. The petcock's function is to allow the flow of gas to the carb or shut it off, nothing more, nothing less.

If I offended you earlier, my sincere apologies. The needle, seat, and float is the only thing that regulates the carb from flooding over. In over 40 years as a mechanic I've never run across any other cause. Of course there is always a first and I will be more than willing to learn from it.

Title: Re: Flooding carb during warm-up idle
Post by jman on 07/14/14 at 17:04:52

382E39243C29243F4B0 wrote:

I sure do,... that tabletop with the broken vac line on it, needs refinishing... :-?...

You're not the first to comment on that table top. It's perfectly fine.

Title: Re: Flooding carb during warm-up idle
Post by jman on 07/14/14 at 17:07:03

I replaced the cracked vacuum line, and tested the petcock by applying "manual" vacuum pressure (I sucked on the vacuum line), and got no fuel in my mouth.

Put it all back together, and the bike's sitting in the garage purring away like it hasn't been causing any headaches at all in the last week or so.

Title: Re: Flooding carb during warm-up idle
Post by Seaweednh on 07/14/14 at 18:32:29

7E79757A140 wrote:

Title: Re: Flooding carb during warm-up idle
Post by jman on 07/14/14 at 18:35:25

784E4A5C4E4E4F45432B0 wrote:

[quote author=7E79757A140 link=1405374131/15#15 date=1405382823]I replaced the cracked vacuum line, and tested the petcock by applying "manual" vacuum pressure (I sucked on the vacuum line), and got no fuel in my mouth.

Put it all back together, and the bike's sitting in the garage purring away like it hasn't been causing any headaches at all in the last week or so.

I get this is where we all got confused, to quote you, " However, adding throttle to it will cause the carburetor to flood and overflow."

If the vacuum line is broken, it shuts the fuel off to the carb and you run lean. However in your case it flooded and over flowed? It should have also run fine in the prime position, the same as with a good vacuum line in the on position.
[/quote]

Before replacing the vacuum line, I did run it in the "Prime" position, and it ran just fine.

But yes, with the cracked vacuum line in the "On" position, the bike would cough and die unless you grabbed the throttle and opened it up, in which case it would flood the float bowl and overflow through the overflow tubes.

Title: Re: Flooding carb during warm-up idle
Post by jman on 07/15/14 at 06:01:01

Well, it seems that what I did yesterday was for naught, as the bike started doing the exact same thing as described in my OP this morning when Mrs. Jman started it up to go to work.

For now we just switched the petcock over to "Prime" so she can use the bike, but this whole thing is now confusing the hell out of me.

I guess I'll be replacing the petcock after all...after payday.

Title: Re: Flooding carb during warm-up idle
Post by busterboy on 07/15/14 at 06:06:04

When I first bought my Savage it did something similar, it would would only run correctly if the petcock was set to prime. I replaced it with a raptor and have had no further issues.