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Message started by rapfohl on 06/28/14 at 10:16:58

Title: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by rapfohl on 06/28/14 at 10:16:58

Hey everyone, I just bought a 2002 S40 with about 2000 miles on it. I bought it, rode it home about 60 miles without it skipping a beat, and then changed the oil and filter the next day. I didnt like the pull back handlebars, so I got a set of the tracker bars from Ryca. I took the old bars off and put my cover on it and there it sat for a week before I got my new bars.

Yesterday I got the new bars on and went to start it up and it just wont. I checked all the obvious things first, and then went and then drained the float bowl, checked the petcock (Raptor) and still had nothing. It cranks just fine, catches, and then dies after about a second. Nothing I do can keep it going. Or it just cranks and does nothing.

I took the battery out for the night and charged it up. Still the same thing this morning. Put a new spark plug in it, as I didn't have any spark, but I attributed that to having tinkered for an hour or so.

I am at a loss...It ran beautifully a week ago. Any tips?

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by Serowbot on 06/28/14 at 10:49:27

Well,.. it's cranking enough to fire,.. so let's rule out electrical...
Got gas?... try reserve... (just in case)...
Are you using choke?...
How much oil did you put in?...

It has been known to happen,... that the oil filter gets installed backwards... that might create enough pressure in a cold engine to kill it...and it will blow the side case apart if you run it that way)...

If you are sure the filter is installed correctly,... I'd go back to fuel...
Is there a fuel filter installed?...
Try removing the gascap (might be clogged tank vent)...
...(better yet,.. pull the fuel line at the carb,... and let fuel flow into a container... you can pour it back in the tank after you see that you have good flow to the carb)...

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by rapfohl on 06/28/14 at 11:49:58

I had a fuel filter on there, but took it off thinking it was causing insufficient flow. I have put the petcock to both on and res with the tube off the carb and it flows readily. I also backed out the drain screw and turned in on then, it flows through the carb as well.

I have tried to start it with the choke in all positions, always the same. It only catches if the choke is all the way on. Otherwise it just cranks.

I have the oil level right at the F line (maybe just a hair higher) when standing upright.

The oil filter, there is a side with a hole and one with a dimple. I installed the side with the hole towards the engine, on the nipple with the o-ring.

I pulled the spark plug before I gave up this morning and tested both the new and old plug and got no spark. Maybe I did it incorrectly, but I took the plug out, plugged it back into the cable and hit the starter. I brought the battery back in to charge at that point, I figured I had worn it down to much trying.

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by 1st2know on 06/28/14 at 12:31:21

Take the tank off and re-seat your harnesses from the handlebar - there are three connectors. The one on the left side of the frame doesn't snap in tightly, and can be slightly jiggled out when working on the bike.

You should be able to test fire it with the tank off.

If that connector was loose and the cause of the problem, zip-tied it closed.

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by rapfohl on 06/28/14 at 15:26:30

The plug was a little loose, but even after being plugged in securely there is no change.

Maybe the battery itself is just bad? The guy I bought it from said it sat for a while, but he kept the battery on a tender.

I have checked and re-checked everything. Everything is as it should be, especially in the areas I did work...

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by S-P on 06/28/14 at 19:05:00

Try some starting fluid aerosol. Shoot about 1-2 seconds into the filter, let it sit for a few seconds to vaporize, then hit the starter. My first bike did a "hard starting" thing for a while and on the first start up in the morning I had to shoot some starter fluid into the carb to get it going. It started fine the rest of the day after that. Still not sure why....

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by Seaweednh on 06/28/14 at 19:25:26

You have only started and driven it once. You can do all you want to it but if you don't have spark, it's never going to run. This may sound dumb but is the big red kill switch on the right side handle bar in the run position?

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by verslagen1 on 06/28/14 at 19:40:21

Rest assured that if the starter spins, the switches and safeties are in the right position to have ignition.

You need to check voltage, anything less than 10v and it won't start, but the starter will spin it just fine.

A loose sparky is ok, the threads are enough to seal it, the gasket is there to prevent it from walking out.

having to pull the choke is unusual, you might need to clean the carb.

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by rapfohl on 06/29/14 at 05:11:21

This is probably going to be a stupid question, but I dont care. Do I just take a multimeter reading across the terminals of the battery? Or is there somewhere else I am supposed to do it from?

I have been telling myself to get a multimeter for forever. Today is the day I guess. I'll grab some starter fluid as well.

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by Yoshi on 06/29/14 at 05:53:14

yea, right to the neg and pos terminal.

I like to use a load tested or hold the multimeter to the terminals and have someone crank the bike to see how low the battery drops as it gets a load put on it

I like to use a battery load tested to test batteries

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by rapfohl on 06/29/14 at 08:55:44

I got 12.5 just sitting there, 12.1 with the key turned, and 10.2-10.3 when cranking it.

My roommate and I tried bump starting it a few timed as well. It sputtered some the first time but just locked up the second and third.

I am starting to think gas. I am 99% sure i hooked the throttle cable up correctly. The throttle on the carb does exactly what it is supposed to. I guess is it just time to drop the carb and clean it up? It always need a pump or two of the throttle to start before.

My roommate remided me that i had put some seafoam in the tank when i got it. Maybe that knocked some gunk loose and plugged something up?

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by old_rider on 06/29/14 at 09:01:43

Yeah, my battery did the same thing.... would charge to 12.64 or so and then bleed off to 12.45 or 12.35 and drop to 10v on start...it would start on occasion, if I charged it overnight or road it for an hour...but if I did short trips it would not start.
I changed that out and have not had a problem since.
Drain the tank then, and the bowl, maybe remove the bowl and see if anything is loose in there.

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by rapfohl on 06/29/14 at 15:01:53

Well it isnt the battery. I got a new one and still the same thing. I drained the float bowl again and the gas is perfect. Clear as can be and nice color.

Whatever. I'm just mad now. I don't understand how it could crank and catch if it is missing spark or gas. I can drop the carb and clean it I guess...

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by Seaweednh on 06/29/14 at 15:41:54

To quote you

"I pulled the spark plug before I gave up this morning and tested both the new and old plug and got no spark. Maybe I did it incorrectly, but I took the plug out, plugged it back into the cable and hit the starter. I brought the battery back in to charge at that point, I figured I had worn it down to much trying."

Do you have spark now? If not, don't mess with the carb until you do.

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by rapfohl on 06/29/14 at 16:05:43

The bike does have a nice blue spark.

I (embarrassingly) wasn't grounding the plug before. I'm glad my roommate knows more about wrenching than I do.

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by S-P on 06/29/14 at 16:16:11

So are you saying it runs now? Have you tried starting fluid yet?

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by Kris01 on 06/29/14 at 16:19:54

How much Seafoam did you put in the tank? I've seen too much Seafoam cause an engine to not start in a friend's car.

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by S-P on 06/29/14 at 16:22:44

4D746F753637060 wrote:

How much Seafoam did you put in the tank? I've seen too much Seafoam cause an engine to not start in a friend's car.

Indeed, fresh clean gas is always a good thing when chasing starting issues.

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by Seaweednh on 06/29/14 at 16:25:10

Well that just leaves fuel and compression. (and timing but I doubt that changed)

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by rapfohl on 06/29/14 at 16:32:13

It still wont start up.

I had starter fluid and a small gas can on my list of things to get today and forgot them all 3 times I went to the store. I will get them tomorrow, drain out the old gas and put new in.

I thought I had measured the Seafoam correctly, but I won't say I was ultra-precise. I don't know much about carbs, if I drain the float bowl is that getting all the gas out of the carb? So drain the tank at the petcock and the carb at the float bowl = all gas out?

At that point, I guess it is just suck it up and drop the carb.

Thanks guys, I won't even pretend that I'm not a newbie. Everyone has to learn at some point.

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by Kris01 on 06/29/14 at 16:35:39

Off the top of my head I think you're supposed to use 1 oz. Seafoam to 1 gallon gas. Our tank is what? 2.4 gallons or something? Figure about 2.5 ounces Seafoam per tank.

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by rapfohl on 06/30/14 at 14:44:22

Ok here is the results of my next few tests.

New gas, no starter fluid = no start, same as always.

New gas, starter fluid = will start, runs for about 3 seconds (off the rest of the starter fluid I'm guessing)

I tried it a few more times and it was consistent.

Next I tried holding the throttle open about half. It would keep running but horribly. Very inconsistent idle with tons of gun shot backfiring. I didn't do it for more than 10-15 seconds. Just enough to look all around the engine. No leaks or smoke.

However, after that 30 or so cumulative seconds the exhaust header was instant finger burn hot. I figured it would definitely be warm, but it was intensely hot. The pipe is also quite blue.

My guess, bike is running lean as hell. Not even enough gas to start. How it ran home and after the oil change but not after sitting? Who knows, I live in Georgia, it is humid as crap here. Or maybe something broke loose with the Seafoam and is clogging a jet?

What do you guys think? Next actions? Idle mix screw or just drop carb?

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by verslagen1 on 06/30/14 at 14:48:04

clean carb.

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by Seaweednh on 06/30/14 at 14:49:31

Remove the carb, clean the crap out of the bowl and blow out the jet. Remove the needle from the seat and blow that out as well.

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by rapfohl on 06/30/14 at 17:58:06

Well the carb disassembly was going well. I even managed to get he float pin out after enough WD40. I had only the pilot jet left to take out annnnd stripped...

The carb doesn't look terrible, but there is some gunk in there. Its not like I have seen tons of carbs before so maybe it was actually way too much gunk.

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by BalingWire on 06/30/14 at 18:13:44

675155435151505A5C340 wrote:

[...] big red kill switch [...]

Indeed, decades ago, I watched a motorcyclist at the A&W root beer stand in Delphos, Ohio trying to kickstart a 4 banger 750? Yahonski. Finally got so crazy and frustrated—and there were girls watching, mind you—that he accidentally became unbalanced on a kick and dumped the bike on its side. I got off my bike, helped him tip it back up, and...that big red kill switch just needed a little nudge. Then it started right up.

What I'm saying is, there might be a female watching and making you a wee bit nervous. How do they do that? ;D

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by S-P on 06/30/14 at 18:26:29

4D5E4F595057533F0 wrote:

The carb doesn't look terrible, but there is some gunk in there. Its not like I have seen tons of carbs before so maybe it was actually way too much gunk.

ANY gunk in a carb is too much gunk.... ;)

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by Seaweednh on 06/30/14 at 19:13:04

514253454C4B4F230 wrote:

All you need is a little bit to suck into the jet. Most time there is no need to take the jet out if you have an air compressor. I just bought my first bike recently and it had been parked for the last seven years. Changed the fuel added a battery and pulled the carb. The bowl had small particles of crap in it. Wiped it out, blew out the jet and it works great. Done this a hundred times fixing rental equipment, a car that sat for over twenty years, antique engines, etc.. It doesn't take much to keep them from running.

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by rapfohl on 07/02/14 at 15:31:21

So I am ordering some jets, and there are pilot jets with "bleed holes" and without. The one I took out didn't have any.

Whats the deal with those?

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by S-P on 07/02/14 at 16:14:37

I recall a thread recently and basically the bottom line was they don't matter... But, I'm old and my memory is going, so don't trust me. ;)

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by Kris01 on 07/02/14 at 16:36:08

Yeah, with or without doesn't matter. Our bike doesn't need the air holes but it won't hurt if you have a jet with them.

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by rapfohl on 07/09/14 at 17:48:50

Hey everyone, jus a quick update. I got my carb all cleaned up and am in the process of putting it back together. I had to get a new main jet and pilot jet as the pilot jet got ruined and main jet just looked bad. I also got a carb rebuild kit that came with the two pieces shown below (not sure what they are called) and these two small gaskets. Any idea what the gaskets are for? I didn't take anything like them off, at least not that I remember.

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af103/rapfohl/IMG_0801_zps70f0c4d0.jpg (http://s998.photobucket.com/user/rapfohl/media/IMG_0801_zps70f0c4d0.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Bike not starting after sitting for a week
Post by verslagen1 on 07/09/14 at 18:58:57

the large one goes on the brass valve seat
I think the little one goes behind the idle mixture screw,
but you need a secret factory diagram to confirm it.
shhhh... don't tell epa you got one.