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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> airbox filled with oil/fuel /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1402884001 Message started by mojohand40 on 06/15/14 at 19:00:01 |
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Title: airbox filled with oil/fuel Post by mojohand40 on 06/15/14 at 19:00:01 Okay, last time I rode my savage, it kept cutting off whenever I came to a stop. Wouldn't idle, just died. Made it home, took a look at things and found a lot (LOT) of oil in the airbox. I know it wasn't overfilled with oil, and I know it's not the petcock, as it's a raptor petcock and the vacuum port is plugged, etc. (did raptor mod a long time ago). Honestly, before this, bike ran great. Whats the deal? Why is soooo much gas and oil filling my airbox? Why would it die at idle? What do I need to do after I change the oil, clean out airbox, etc? Carb rebuild? Help me people, I'm at my wits end. :P :'( |
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Title: Re: airbox filled with oil/fuel Post by Serowbot on 06/15/14 at 19:23:31 Not the whole carb,.. just the bottom part... You have a sticking float,... or, an old or dirty float needle and seat... A sticking float, will sometimes fix, just by tapping the outside of the bowl with the plastic handle of a screwdriver... this dislodges the sticky. and the float works fine after that... If it continues to stick... go ahead and get in there... Might want to buy a new needle and seat before you do, if you don't want to go in twice... Not that it's very hard to do... |
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Title: Re: airbox filled with oil/fuel Post by PuffsPlus on 06/15/14 at 19:26:57 Just a layman here. Probably no oil. More than likely gas. Sounds like carb vacuum port seal is leaking. (or gasket?) Bike won't start because it's not getting air. It's getting gas fumes. So it's choking. There is a dain screw in the bottom of the air box. You should be able to get to it with if you get on your back and reach up. It will drip out. Pull filter and let air out until dry. Leave the airbox cover off and troubleshoot the carb. Imo it's definitely an air leak in the carburetor. Or parked on a slope? |
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Title: Re: airbox filled with oil/fuel Post by verslagen1 on 06/15/14 at 21:42:24 0722313124073B2224570 wrote:
quite a few have said a gas soaked paper filter is ruined, so if you continue to have problems, replace the filter. |
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Title: Re: airbox filled with oil/fuel Post by PuffsPlus on 06/15/14 at 22:21:09 697A6D6C737E787A712E1F0 wrote:
quite a few have said a gas soaked paper filter is ruined, so if you continue to have problems, replace the filter.[/quote] Is that correction or interpretation? Not saying I am right... but let me elaborate. The last message was on a phone and there were people talking to me so it was kinda of short hand and probably not as articulated as it should have been. Just a layman here. Probably no oil. More than likely gas. Sounds like a leak in the vacuum port in the carburetor or possibly the carb gasket. The bike won't start because it's not getting air. It's getting gas fumes. So it's choking. There is a drain hose in the bottom of the air box that can be opened to allow the gas to drain out. You should be able to get to it with if you get on your back and reach up. Pull filter and let air out until dry. Leave the air box cover off and troubleshoot the carb. Imo it's definitely an air leak in the carburetor. I understand that the savage doesn't like to be parked on a slope. This has not been a problem for me but it might be a possibility in your case. Serowbot posted at the same time as me. He's more than likely correct as i have heard that the float sticking is also a common problem. I am just trying to offer other possibility. I had recently had a "Stock petcock issue that flooded my box as well. since you have the Raptor a negative air leak is my guess if it's not the float. Vers, I totally respect your opinion and am wondering how oil would get in the mix? Anyway mojo, you should probably listen to Vers and Serow and just take Vers' edited version of my original post. :'( |
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Title: Re: airbox filled with oil/fuel Post by verslagen1 on 06/15/14 at 22:33:59 042132322704382127540 wrote:
correction, which is of course my learned opinion, and on occasion, has needed correction. :-? Quote:
oil gets spat in there from the breather and sits until drained. |
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Title: Re: airbox filled with oil/fuel Post by Serowbot on 06/15/14 at 22:45:47 Puff,... When a float sticks,.. the engine floods.... eventually, gravity leads this fuel downward into the crankcase... which increases the volume to the point of spitting it out the crankcase vent tube... into the airbox... This is how a fuel leak makes an oily, gas mess in the airbox... Once you fix the cause... you need to clean out the airbox and filter,... and if it was bad enough (too much fuel to evaporate)... you'll need to change the oil... I should have mentioned the need to change the oil... It will, mostly evaporate.... if not from sitting, once the heat of running happens... but, it's best to get clean oil in there... Us oldsters have explained these things many times,... and we, meaning I, can get lazy.... and leave parts out... That is why I appreciate comments from fresh voices... Anyway... the problem is in the floatbowl... either floats are sticking or float needle is leaking... Once you fix it... it would be safe to change the oil... as it is most likely contaminated by the leaking fuel... I know it's nasty news....and a PIA... but, these things can happen to any carbed engine... Good news is,... you caught it... ;)... |
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Title: Re: airbox filled with oil/fuel Post by mojohand40 on 06/16/14 at 03:51:27 Thanks, guys. That makes sense. I was just surprised at how much fuel went into the crankcase, and overflowed the oil into the airbox. It was a lot! So, in fixing the floats and the float needle and seat (I'm assuming there is no way around pulling out the carb for this) I need to probably replace the float needle and seat, but....what do do about sticking floats? Just clean 'um up and put back? Never did this before... |
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Title: Re: airbox filled with oil/fuel Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/16/14 at 04:54:13 You MITE need to replace the needle, look at it first. If the pointy cone at the end isnt flat on the sides, if it has a groove going around, then, new one,, Otherwise, open & clean,,everything in the bowl,,make sure the floats arent sinking,,if theyre not floating, then theyll let the valve stay open, |
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Title: Re: airbox filled with oil/fuel Post by youzguyz on 06/16/14 at 05:32:15 Let me add my 2 cents of confusion. 1. Floats don't really STICK. When other says they do, they mean the needle is sticking in the seat. It is remotely possible (highly unlikey) that the floats aren't moving freely on the hinge/pin. 2. Floats can leak, and fill with gas, and not float anymore. Once again, highly unlikely. Best way to check that is to pull them off, submerge them in some water, look for bubbles. If found, it is possible to fix the leak by drilling it out larger (so you can drain out all the fluid), then solder it closed. (or use what ever that won't get eaten up by gas). You can also check a leaking float by taking it off, shaking it, and listening for fluid. 3. Most likely culprit. Float valve and seat. They almost always are sold as a set. Get both, replace both. When my bike had your symptoms, it was the o-ring around the float seat that failed, not the valve or seat itself. I still replaced both. This part of the confusion is now concluded. You may go now. |
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Title: Re: airbox filled with oil/fuel Post by youzguyz on 06/16/14 at 05:40:13 And, in my opinion, changing the oil is NOT an option. It is a MUST DO. That crankcase is suppose to have oil in it, not gasoline. You risk damaging bearings, cylinder wall, piston, etc. 1. Drain all the old oil "aggressively". Drain, tilt bike around with drain open, let it drain some more, repeat. 2. Put in a quart of oil or so. 3. Pull the spark plug. 4. Squirt a bit of oil in the spark plug hole 5. Spin the engine with the starter (spark plug is still OUT) 6. Tip the bike around a bit to move the oil around. Repeat 5 and 6 a few times. 7. Toss the oil filter, toss the air filter. Replace with new. 8. Drain the oil one more time. 9. Put in spark plug. Fill with 2 quarts oil. Done. |
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Title: Re: airbox filled with oil/fuel Post by eruby on 06/16/14 at 13:59:28 This is great info. I had backfire/power loss issues that lead me to the original petcock. I replaced it with the raptor and it fixed some issues but if I ran the bike for 20-30 minutes, cut it off and tried to start it in a couple minutes (like to fill it up), it responded like it was flooding. I too think it's time for a rebuild of the carb. Probably gunky since I bought it this year with <5000 and it's a 2000 model. I figured I have either a float with a hole, a float too fouled up to move correctly or a float valve seat issue. Until I have the time to fix, I now turn the petcock to off and let it run out of gas. I've changed the oil (no gas noticeable) and I'm hoping this will get me by until I can pull the carb. |
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Title: Re: airbox filled with oil/fuel Post by gizzo on 06/16/14 at 16:51:45 70667C736E7C7073090 wrote:
+1. I've had that a couple times on different Suzukis. Needle and seat were both fine, just the O ring around the seat had failed. |
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Title: Re: airbox filled with oil/fuel Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/16/14 at 17:13:15 584E545B4654585B210 wrote:
Definitely. If you know youve had gas in the oil, then be serious about getting it out., NOT so serious as to use any open flames,, BAD idea.. |
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Title: Re: airbox filled with oil/fuel Post by mojohand40 on 06/16/14 at 17:24:55 I don't get a real strong gas smell from the oil in the airbox, but I KNOW I got gas in my crankcase because the "oil" level in the sight window is so high and of course, the oil is overflowing into the airbox..soo....all the extra "oil" must be gas.. I'll definitely use youzguyz advice in changing the oil out aggressively. I ordered a kit with orings, gasket, seat and needle from ebay, so hopefully I can start on it this weekend. Meantime, I drained the airbox puke tube and switched off the petcock. Thanks again for the great help! |
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Title: Re: airbox filled with oil/fuel Post by Seaweednh on 06/16/14 at 19:29:46 4E58424D50424E4D370 wrote:
This is great advise. A lot of time the reason the crankcase fills with gas is a piece of crap between the needle and seat. The Raptor petcocks have very fine screen so it probably didn't come from the tank. With the newer gas it may be time to change your gas line. The have a tendency to deteriorate and cause havoc. |
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Title: Re: airbox filled with oil/fuel Post by mojohand40 on 07/07/14 at 11:45:31 welllll....I did as suggested and after a trying time getting out the carb (definitely had to pull battery box to make room), I replaced the float and cleaned up the carb. Changed oil and filter aggressively, new plug, filter and put her back together. She ran great for about 15 or so miles....then....MASSIVE oil leak. Rotella all over my rear wheel and muffler...bad. Now, I've had a slight oil leak problem after I did the cam chain tensioner and actually replaced the clutch cover gasket TWICE. (leaked after the first time). So what do I do now...Did the gas in my oil in the crankcase destroy this gasket causing it to leak so bad now? Should I just get a new gasket and change the oil ? Will this likely work or are there other things I need to fix also? or... Should I set in on fire and curse the day I bought it? Help, guys, I am seriously at my wits end with this bike. Seems like the more I fix on it the worse it gets. :-/ |
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Title: Re: airbox filled with oil/fuel Post by verslagen1 on 07/07/14 at 14:34:12 There are 3 sealing washers... Do you have those? And in the right places? |
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Title: Re: airbox filled with oil/fuel Post by mojohand40 on 07/07/14 at 15:33:49 4D5E4948575A5C5E550A3B0 wrote:
..., you mean the three washers on the crankcase cover? not sure what you mean... Looking at bike bandit drawing of the crankcase cover they are indicated as 6.7 and seem to be on the outside.. is this right? |
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Title: Re: airbox filled with oil/fuel Post by oldNslow on 07/07/14 at 15:52:19 Quote:
There is a big o-ring in a groove on the inside of the oil filter cover. That's the first thing I'd check. And make sure the filter isn't in backwards. The open end goes in first - toward the motor. |
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Title: Re: airbox filled with oil/fuel Post by mojohand40 on 07/07/14 at 16:14:58 1F21202C3E22234D0 wrote:
Yeah, that oring WAS swollen when I changed the filter, so I replaced it. Since it's a new oring, I really don't think this is the issue. But thats a good guess, cause, like I said, the old one didn't look good. |
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Title: Re: airbox filled with oil/fuel Post by verslagen1 on 07/07/14 at 16:33:09 7F7D787D7A737C762622120 wrote:
..., you mean the three washers on the crankcase cover? not sure what you mean... Looking at bike bandit drawing of the crankcase cover they are indicated as 6.7 and seem to be on the outside.. is this right?[/quote] Yes on outside... So are they there? |
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