SuzukiSavage.com - Print Page

SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> grinding noise in head
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1401067934

Message started by savagebob on 05/25/14 at 18:32:14

Title: grinding noise in head
Post by savagebob on 05/25/14 at 18:32:14

My mate picked up a savage the other day. It was an LS400 which has had the 600 put in it. It also has a chain (apparently the 400s has chains not belts) and it's got a small oil cooler on it mounted right up where the frame splits.

Anyway, I digress. We started it up yesterday and it's got a rather bad grinding sound coming from head. Bike runs ok, and he might not have really noticed but compared to my savage, I know it doesn't sound right.

Really sounds like the cam spinning around in there.. cos it's a spinning sort of grinding. Not knocking or rattling.

Anyway, I'm wondering what to tell him. Do you think it's worth taking the cooler off and putting some decent oil in in the hope the sound goes away? Or, take the top cover off and inspect the cam? Or is he probably looking for a head replacement?

Title: Re: grinding noise in head
Post by jcstokes on 05/25/14 at 18:55:42

What is there to grind up there, if it's still firing ok? Cam chain misaligned and rubbing against something? Something dropped inside? Faulty cam bearings? Strain some oil and look for particles, wash out the filter with petrol and see what comes out. I'm no expert.

Title: Re: grinding noise in head
Post by verslagen1 on 05/25/14 at 18:56:14

I'd take the head cover off at least.
I saw 1 where the cam mounting bolts had backed out.

Title: Re: grinding noise in head
Post by savagebob on 05/25/14 at 19:30:39

Just at a guess, it sounds like the cam spinning around with no oil..

I guess the best thing would be to take head cover off and see if there is any oil up there eh?

Title: Re: grinding noise in head
Post by shorty on 05/25/14 at 20:02:29

I would not run it without further inspection

Title: Re: grinding noise in head
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/25/14 at 20:27:44

584A455844454E4C2B0 wrote:

I would not run it without further inspection

Im with Shorty,,,

Title: Re: grinding noise in head
Post by Dave on 05/27/14 at 09:44:50

So....tell us a bit abot how this cooler is plumbed into the system. Maybe it contributed to a problem with oil flow to the cylinder head.

Dave

Title: Re: grinding noise in head
Post by savagebob on 06/03/14 at 15:21:49

It has a very small cooler mounted up high.. about where the frame splits. It uses both the oil passages. I'll try and get a photo.

Apparently when my mate dumped the old oil out it was pretty nasty looking. We haven't had time to look under head cover yet. But I'm pretty concerned it won't be nice under there.

I suspect it's likely a case of poor oil choice, lack of oil changes and possibly the oil cooler might have had a contributing factor in that noise I'm hearing.

We're going to take head cover off and inspect to see if there is oil up there or not. Remove oil cooler and flush with good oil and hope it's salvageable.

Title: Re: grinding noise in head
Post by savagebob on 06/07/14 at 23:50:49

Here is a shot of the cooler:
http://s30.postimg.org/vcsojgkz5/pic3.jpg

We took the head cover off and had a looksie. There was plenty of oil up there so it certainly wasn't dry. The journals are a bit worn.. you don't need to run a finger nail over them to see they are scratched up a bit. That said, it doesn't seem THAT bad in my un-educated opinion. Certainly not as bad some of the other pics I've seen on here.

http://s1.postimg.org/8oer8fc7z/pic1.jpg

http://s10.postimg.org/q7tvdm5cp/pic2.jpg

What to you guys think? Is it worth giving these a bit of a light rub with some light sandpaper to smooth them out a bit? Or just throw it back together and put some better oil in it and hope it quietens down a bit?

Apart from making a bit of rough cam spinning noise is there anything particularly wrong with continuing with this head?

Title: Re: grinding noise in head
Post by verslagen1 on 06/08/14 at 00:13:06

get some plasti gap and check the clearances.

Then there's a thread for the fix if they're over sized.

Title: Re: grinding noise in head
Post by savagebob on 06/08/14 at 14:48:44

Out of interest, what the worst that can happen from just throwing it back together and riding it?

Don't know anything about a plastigauge, but I'd be tempted just to give them a tiny rub with 800grit just to take off the rough bits.

Title: Re: grinding noise in head
Post by pgambr on 06/08/14 at 14:53:40

What is the pitting from in the one pic?

Title: Re: grinding noise in head
Post by savagebob on 06/08/14 at 15:21:19

Dunno? The cam doesn't really touch that part though does it?

Title: Re: grinding noise in head
Post by thumperclone on 06/08/14 at 16:44:52

imo that cooler is way too high

Title: Re: grinding noise in head
Post by jcstokes on 06/08/14 at 18:33:00

I'm no mechanic, but I wonder if enough lube has been getting around with the cooler and it's piping. It would be interesting to see how much oil comes out if you drain it, perhaps there should be some extra for the cooler and its piping.

Title: Re: grinding noise in head
Post by savagebob on 06/08/14 at 18:59:51

yeah the cooler is a weird one. We didn't put it on, my mate bought it like that not knowing any different. I've told him to take it off but he doesn't have the blanking plugs to seal the ports.

Title: Re: grinding noise in head
Post by jcstokes on 06/08/14 at 22:41:04

Savagebob, since you seem to have high level of skill, is there any way you could bracket the cooler in front of the crank case, you would also be able to flush the cooler thoroughly. I know there would be issues with the hose length but it would remove the over height issue. That would save your mate buying blanking plugs. I respectfully suggest that if you take sandpaper to the bearing surfaces, you will leave some grit, no matter how fine, in them. Any wear has been done now.

Title: Re: grinding noise in head
Post by savagebob on 06/09/14 at 01:07:40

hmmm we could look at mounting the cooler lower perhaps. Otherwise, maybe we can figure out some way to block off the pipes.

Surely we can clean out the journals carefully to get the grit. I'm only thinking a really, really light sand just to get the high spots off. Might quieten it down some.. with some decent oil... maybe

Title: Re: grinding noise in head
Post by jcstokes on 06/09/14 at 02:06:06

Fair enough, I don't suppose he's got a lot to lose.

Title: Re: grinding noise in head
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/09/14 at 07:00:46

An oversize linebore & some hand made inserts?

Title: Re: grinding noise in head
Post by verslagen1 on 06/09/14 at 07:30:06

435146515755525F52300 wrote:

yeah the cooler is a weird one. We didn't put it on, my mate bought it like that not knowing any different. I've told him to take it off but he doesn't have the blanking plugs to seal the ports.

If you do take it off, be sure to check the cross over port from the case to the cover to verify it's open.

One thing you could do, take the cooler off and leave 1 hose between the 2 ports. I think the sv hoses both ends are the same size.

Title: Re: grinding noise in head
Post by savagebob on 06/09/14 at 14:18:05

good call, that could be an easy solution. Might look a bit stupid but meh.

Nah we're not going to try and make new inserts. The wear isn't unsalvageable I don't think. Just give it a slight polish up and just run it I think.