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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> A bigger 5th gear /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1400082078 Message started by Dave on 05/14/14 at 08:41:17 |
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Title: A bigger 5th gear Post by Dave on 05/14/14 at 08:41:17 2D3E2928373A3C3E356A5B0 wrote:
This is a huge long shot........the 6th gear from an SV650 appears to be the same design as our fifth gear. If there is some standardization of the shaft and spline size......there is a remote chance that this 6th gear set might/could be used in our gearbox. I have no idea if the ratio is an improvement over what we currently have......but it does have a tiny bit of potential. Somebody needs to find a SV650 gear set, and compare it with our stock gear set for 5th. It would be a huge amount of work to change it......most of us have never had to split the center case on a Savage. |
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Title: Re: Regearing for more gears? Post by verslagen1 on 05/14/14 at 12:09:49 I've been in there <shudder> And will gladly commit a savage tranny to the project. If we can find a compatible set of gears from a donor bike it'll be a miracle. I've never seen another tranny so I'm guessing 1st thing we should look for is the distance between the 2 shafts. Remember, this has 5th gear added to it, so I don't know if this will follow a common design or not. I suspect that one of the GS series maybe compatible. There's an Italian web site with a lot of old manuals, I'll have to see if I can find it again. Got a 80's gs series bike or just the manual, measure the distance between the tranny shafts, (probably will have to take the clutch off) or xerrox the tranny pages and post them. I doubt if we can buy just 2 gears out of the tranny, but those of you willing, go down to your local scrap yard and scrounge up some donors. |
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Title: Re: Regearing for more gears? Post by WD on 05/14/14 at 12:29:51 Would be next to impossible to find a donor since it is a 2 year only, highly collectible, "cult classic"... but the double overdrive 6 speed out of a Honda CMX450C is pretty close. Those bikes in junkyard condition are worth more than a brand new S40... Chopping one up is as big a crime as cutting up an unmolested Indian 4 that has been in storage since its purchaser died in WW2. Lisa used to ride a 450 Rebel, and when it was behaving, it could walk all over the Savage. Smooth as greased glass... I had contemplated a transmission gut swap into the Savage when the Rebel gave up the ghost. The guy that bought it had to put over $1800 into the fuel system alone... |
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Title: Re: Regearing for more gears? Post by Smokestack on 05/14/14 at 14:29:07 I'm a liscenced Machinist by trade, but I ain't no engineer. If someone could send me a drawing and tell me what materials you want, I could machine one up at the shop in my off hours. My biggest gripe with the Savage is the thin spread between 4th and 5th, so if it would help solve this particular issue I'd be happy to do it. We dont have on site heat treat, so that would have to be someone else's job. Mostly 'cuz I've never really trusted the backyard oven type heat treat jobbies, so I've never set one up. |
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Title: Re: Regearing for more gears? Post by verslagen1 on 05/14/14 at 15:15:37 I believe if you took out 3rd gear, swap driven for driving and put in as 5th gear it might do. http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/Tranny/gear_swap.jpg I'll have to see if I have pictures. |
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Title: Re: Regearing for more gears? Post by verslagen1 on 05/15/14 at 12:31:19 I found some pictures of the sv650 6th speed gear set. 23/18 = 1.2777 might be a good set. |
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Title: Re: Regearing for more gears? Post by Serowbot on 05/15/14 at 16:28:00 Versy had me make up a speed chart for the Savage with an SV top gear... Looks good... ;)... (I'd love it)... :-*... http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/serowbot/5spdwsvtopgear_zps3e91874f.jpg Compare to stock, looks like this... http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/serowbot/rerun/stockchrt.jpg NOTE... no way a Savage HP will actually pull to 110mph,.. but, it would lower cruising rpm at at 70 or so... ;)... |
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Title: Re: Regearing for more gears? Post by ihasabike on 05/15/14 at 21:38:00 Sold. Will someone please provide a set of instructions I can print and hand to my mechanic? |
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Title: Re: Regearing for more gears? Post by verslagen1 on 05/15/14 at 22:16:35 ask your mechanic how much to split the cases I bet that'll change your mind. |
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Title: Re: Regearing for more gears? Post by verslagen1 on 05/15/14 at 23:40:14 this morning I got on the freeway and as I rode everyone moved aside. I thought... holy cow, what good deed did I do? Later dave tells me try a sv650 tranny... and there it was, a whole tranny for the price of a gear. dang I shoulda bought lotto tickets 8-) |
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Title: Re: Regearing for more gears? Post by Serowbot on 05/16/14 at 00:00:22 I wish I had that gear,... I wish I had that gear,.. I wish I had that gear... This isn't going to work, is it?... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Regearing for more gears? Post by Dave on 05/16/14 at 04:44:53 Wouldn't that be a winning ticket.....just drop a whole 6 speed gear set in the Savage. I have not studied the issue enough to see where the extra gear set came from - but I bet it took a wider case. Our only hope is that for the sake of using some existing tooling, they made the SV650 gear with a common shaft size, spline size and shaft spacing. It is not out of the range of possibility - as the output shaft for sprockets is pretty common between bikes. This gear change is something I might have pursued when I had my engine completely torn apart and the cases split to replace my crank bearings. I just couldn't find an affordable SV650 transmission gear set at the time. I seriously doubt it I would go to all the work of removing the engine and tearign it down just for a higher top gear alone. For me.....the Kawasaki pulley change is working well. When we go to the Dragon Run next month it will be interesting to see how it works in the mountains. Here are a couple of good photos from eBay that might help...if anyone has any stock 5th gears to compare them to. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=251311886308&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en http://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-08-Suzuki-SV650-2004-2011-DL650-V-Strom-transmission-6th-drive-gear-/281143304244?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4175726034&vxp=mtr |
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Title: Re: Regearing for more gears? Post by verslagen1 on 05/16/14 at 11:58:15 yup saw those... http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/Tranny/5-6th gear.jpg Not sure those are front side back side pic's |
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Title: Re: Regearing for more gears? Post by Dave on 05/16/14 at 13:36:18 Woops....that gear with 4 dogs on the SV650 and 6 dogs on the LS650 doesn't look promising. |
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Title: Re: Regearing for more gears? Post by verslagen1 on 05/16/14 at 13:55:17 common denominator is 2 :-? but will have to see what the mating gear looks like. |
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Title: Re: Regearing for more gears? Post by Serowbot on 05/16/14 at 14:52:37 Maybe something from a dr650 or gn400?... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/96-05-Suzuki-DR650-SE-Transmission-4th-Fourth-Gear-Driven-21-Tooth-/181389783593?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a3bac7229 http://i.ebayimg.com/t/96-05-Suzuki-DR650-SE-Transmission-4th-Fourth-Gear-Driven-21-Tooth-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/EmwAAMXQ74JTVo1J/$_57.JPG http://i.ebayimg.com/t/96-05-Suzuki-DR650-SE-Transmission-4th-Fourth-Gear-Driven-21-Tooth-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/fK8AAOxy0x1TVo1Q/$_57.JPG |
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Title: Re: Regearing for more gears? Post by verslagen1 on 05/18/14 at 15:25:44 I picked up a GN400 tranny for $25 shipped 8-) It has 22/18 for 1.222 which looks like a better ratio for the savage. for the most part, easy crusin' I bring it up to 3k rpm shift up and the rpm drops to 2k, except for 5th which drops 500 rpm. this should make it even across the board. |
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Title: Re: Regearing for more gears? Post by Serowbot on 05/18/14 at 17:53:11 Looks good... ;)... Savage w 18/22 gn400 top gear... stock 140/80 -15 tire... http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/serowbot/Savagewgn400topgear_zps6efb4568.jpg Savage w/140/90-15 tire and 18/22 GN400 top gear... http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/serowbot/savagewgn400topgear_zpsf8261a81.jpg |
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Title: Re: Regearing for more gears? Post by verslagen1 on 05/21/14 at 20:54:04 dang, they're here. now I gotta tear apart a tranny to see if they match. |
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Title: Re: Regearing for more gears? Post by Serowbot on 05/21/14 at 22:28:48 Oh, man... I so envy you... Not!... ;D ;D ;D... |
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Title: Re: A bigger 5th gear Post by verslagen1 on 05/22/14 at 12:06:32 The donors are here and the guinea pig is on the table... more wrenching to follow. |
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Title: Re: A bigger 5th gear Post by verslagen1 on 05/22/14 at 22:39:54 well it's a no go. maybe a year issue, the gears don't match the other pic's. I'll try again later, when I'm not tired. |
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Title: Re: A bigger 5th gear Post by Kris01 on 05/23/14 at 12:38:46 Darn! I was hoping for a real breakthrough! |
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Title: Re: A bigger 5th gear Post by verslagen1 on 05/23/14 at 13:31:44 The GN400 output shaft is smaller than the LS650 The SV650 output shaft is about the same size diameter. So the sv gears fit, they were just the wrong configuration to swap the 2 gears out. There were other differences and appear to be due to the kick ass single power pulses vs. the twin power pulses (beefier engagement pins). I think the next step is to do some more research. Below I've tabulated the savage tranny. Part No's, and number of teeth. If there are any interested, pick a bike and gather up the p/n's description and # of teeth and post it here. This can be had from the OEM phishes of most online stores. I suspect that the output shaft will have to be similarly sized for it to work. Those that know the chain conversion can chime in to the models that work and we can start from there. Otherwise GS series would be my guess and 650 or larger. Give a shout out if you're in and what model you're gonna do. http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/Tranny/gear_swap.jpg |
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Title: Re: A bigger 5th gear Post by ihasabike on 05/25/14 at 13:42:22 I'd like to help. I can buy stuff and ship it to you. I just don't know what to buy. |
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Title: Re: A bigger 5th gear Post by verslagen1 on 05/25/14 at 16:29:47 I wish I could tell ya, look compare but it's still a shot in the dark. http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/Tranny/5thGearDriven.jpg http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/Tranny/5thGearDrive.jpg |
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