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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> swapping one clutch for another, help me.... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1399341983 Message started by wickedbiker on 05/05/14 at 19:06:23 |
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Title: swapping one clutch for another, help me.... Post by wickedbiker on 05/05/14 at 19:06:23 Hey guys, I have noticed I am just about out of clutch on the used 98 engine I recently bought in place of the blown engine that was origianaly on the bike. The blown engine was a 2000 what I'm wondering is how to swap out the clutch or I saw in another thread somewhere where guys were adding clutch plates or something. I am completely new to this, but basically good with mechanics. Is there something I can do and if so can you either guide me to a step-by-step or explain..... I have never even seen the inside of the clutch on the bike. :-/ That's the main topic, but if you think of it is there anything else I might want to swap from the better engine. Other than the completely melted piston of course. Or anything in the top end at all probably. But everything looked pretty good other than the what was left of the piston 2 1" melted peices And the rest looked like aluminum gravel all throughout the engine. |
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Title: Re: swapping one clutch for another, help me.... Post by verslagen1 on 05/05/14 at 19:32:28 clutches rarely wear out... you probably just need a new throwout rod. |
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Title: Re: swapping one clutch for another, help me.... Post by Dave on 05/06/14 at 03:14:25 Instead of telling us what is wrong.....tell us what the symptoms are. Is your clutch slipping? Is the the clutch lever out of adjustment? Is the lever on the side of the engine within the range of the indicator marks? http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1397956793 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1270678838/0#0 And if you do decide to open up your engine and work on the clutch, be very careful to get the oil pump gear installed correctly and make sure the drive pin is in place. |
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Title: Re: swapping one clutch for another, help me.... Post by wickedbiker on 05/06/14 at 04:26:35 I believe the clutch is slipping when I am in a higher gear and floor it so to speak it doesn't take off instead it appears to be reaching and trying to go at the same time. Slipping. I checked the marks and it was a little on the low side so I adjusted it so that it was in the middle. Again and there is almost no screw left at the bottom half of the adjustment. I have not had the chance to test it out now that it is more in the middle of the marks, but I will check it tonight. This engine isn't bad but whoever had it before me denfinantly used it. |
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Title: Re: swapping one clutch for another, help me.... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/06/14 at 04:36:36 Aaaand the next question IZZZ What oil ya runnin? |
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Title: Re: swapping one clutch for another, help me.... Post by Dave on 05/06/14 at 04:47:19 5D4349414F4E4843414F582A0 wrote:
Those marks on the side of the engine do not show where to adjust the cable. Those marks are indicators on how long of a clutch rod is used inside the cutch. Loosen the cable, then lightly push up on the lever with your finger to take out the free play. If the clutch lever is within the range of those marks....then the clutch rod is the proper length. If the lever is moved out of range - you need to install the next size push rod. The cable is adjusted to allow some slack in the cable so that the clutch springs are completely able to push on the clutch....without the cable holding the clutch. When you pull the lever it should move about 1/8" before it starts to pull on the lever on the side of the engine. |
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Title: Re: swapping one clutch for another, help me.... Post by wickedbiker on 05/06/14 at 15:37:51 OK I adjusted and checked the marks the bar sits right above the bottom mark. I noticed after riding this evening that it is not as bad, but still has what is either a slip or flood issue I can't tell which it is because I also just installed the raptor petcock when I get up to a higher speed and pull the throttle back hard it hesitates to pick up speed. I know it has more too it but it is either flooding for an instant or slipping which is what it feels like. But again it is only in that higher speed and pulling the throttle full open, So i'm not sure if slipping makes sense. I hate to say it but I don't know who, what , or where a clutch rod is, but is it something I can make better with parts from the other engine if it is slippage and if not got any ideas? |
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Title: Re: swapping one clutch for another, help me.... Post by Steve H on 05/06/14 at 15:42:28 If your clutch is slipping, you will get an engine speed-up without a corresponding bike speed-up. The bike will be catching up to the engine speed. Sort of like hitting the gas with an auto trans. Engine speeds up the vehicle catches up to it. |
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Title: Re: swapping one clutch for another, help me.... Post by wickedbiker on 05/06/14 at 19:03:01 7B60393A3B3C3E31080 wrote:
That is exactly what is happening, can you tell me how to fix it preferably for free using my blown engine with good parts..... |
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Title: Re: swapping one clutch for another, help me.... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/06/14 at 19:39:17 7D6264637E7948784870626E25170 wrote:
Or did I miss the answer.. |
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Title: Re: swapping one clutch for another, help me.... Post by WD on 05/06/14 at 21:30:15 Change your oil before you do anything else. 2 quarts Rotella 15W40 or 2 quarts Rotella 15W40... if you think the clutch is slipping, save the Rotella T6 5W40 for after any needed mechanical repairs, the stuff isn't cheap. Go for a long ride and see if clean oil made any appreciable difference. If not, see below for the next step. If you have an inline fuel filter, delete it. I had one on the 2003, it runs 100% better with a plain fuel line than with an inline fuel filter. No matter how good it looks, a paper or sintered bronze filter element is going to lean out the bike, the bowl is not refilling fast enough to keep up with demand. You may want to try this first, hell of a lot cheaper than an oil change... and quite possibly the entire issue. No change? Drain out roughly 1 quart of oil. Add in 1 quart of cheap Dexron Mercon automatic transmission fluid. Ride the bike just long enough around the yard for the oil to hit full operating temp, and drain it out HOT. Bike upright, use a brick under the kickstand. The stuff that comes out is going to be black and seriously smelly. Fresh oil (2 quarts) and filter, go for a ride. The atf pulled a lot of glaze and burnt on gunk off the fibers and steels (alternating clutch plates). Expect it to be a bit grabby... If none of those do the trick, get a longer clutch pushrod and a clutch cover gasket, and prepare to get filthy. And probably frustrated, the external clutch linkage is a pain in the butt. |
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Title: Re: swapping one clutch for another, help me.... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/06/14 at 23:43:46 Snot too bad,, a crescent wrench to Unload the cable & care to notr let that Saddle where it hooks up get upside down goin together |
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Title: Re: swapping one clutch for another, help me.... Post by wickedbiker on 05/07/14 at 04:29:22 You guys are awesome' I was hoping I hadent used up my savage.com tokens or something. I have this bike tuned perfect I can tell by the way it wants to go so bad but just can't for some reason. That description of clutch slipping couldn't have been more perfect. I just did the raptor swap and doing have a filter. I know I needed it, the vacume petcock that was on it was working to an extent but had serious issues one of which was running out of gas after about a half hour of filling up. Now I have the raptor, I know I'm almost out of gas and still haven't had to use reserve yet. I live in Florida and the thinner oils run like crap in air cooled bikes down here so I always use either 15 or 20w-50 I'm running Valvoline same 20w50 with superior wet clutch protection I am worried about one thing you might be able to shed light on. I have a cheap china cone air filter with the lip that can cover the opening in the carburetor. I carved it out pretty good, but maybe not good enough. Would those symptoms at the higher speed match that as well because if so maybe just for a minute I'll clamp a screen around thecarb to test and if so find a way to deal with that rubber peice. At first before I carved it out the bile wouldn't even idle right let alone when I Gabe it throttle maybe there's still a bit of rubber there. You guys are pretty adamant about this clutch so I'm starting to suspect something else. |
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Title: Re: swapping one clutch for another, help me.... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/07/14 at 07:20:15 Well, I dunno about the oil youre running, BUT, Rotella T 15/40 wont make it slip AND keeps the valve train happy. & Its cheap! $13.00/gallon,, I see an oil with "special" protections I get nervous,, |
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Title: Re: swapping one clutch for another, help me.... Post by WD on 05/07/14 at 07:30:20 2 or 3 layers of nylon stocking, rubber band them to the carburetor mouth. Will stop anything chunky (like bugs) from getting sucked into the carb. CV carbs and cone filters are usually a nightmare to get dialed in. The vacuum slide needs a fairly smooth flow of air, and the stock airbox and intake piping give it a chance to become linear instead of turbulent. I was aircleaner shopping for my 98 yesterday, had to keep telling myself that it doesn't have an Amal or Mikuni VM36/VM38 yet and to save my money until it does. Cone filters, velocity stacks and Amal style aircleaners most assuredly look 1000x better than the big black rubber primary intake tract. Unfortunately, they rob power with our carburetor style, and it can definitely mimic the symptoms of a slipping clutch. Read this set of several pages on Do The Ton. Why pods/cones and CV carburetors do not play well together... http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=45863.0 |
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Title: Re: swapping one clutch for another, help me.... Post by wickedbiker on 05/07/14 at 08:00:58 6774300 wrote:
This is good news because I am really hoping I don't have to chuck with my clutch. For now I used fiberglass window screen folded a few times and used the metal o clamp. I will test drive it tonight to make sure that's the issue and if so I have already cut the end of the stock boot off and extended the pod so it won't block the ports like it was. Otherwise I will go to step 2 and swap the oil and go from there. But something tells me tonight I'm going to be throttle happy ;D OK, update I adjusted the clutch 100% correct and removed the cone and everything was running perfectly, no more slipping until I got to 60 - 65 mph and first bogging and then quickly stalling once back to 55 and under smooth sailing back to between 60 - maybe 70 and boom stalling almost like there's a governer there :'( |
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Title: Re: swapping one clutch for another, help me.... Post by WD on 05/07/14 at 20:57:58 Carburetor, see your other thread. |
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Title: Re: swapping one clutch for another, help me.... Post by wickedbiker on 06/01/14 at 09:15:37 OK so everything is adjusted and done correctly I have a cone filter, crankcase filter, 55and 155 jets. The bike takes of and shifts to the point where its almost scary its so bad ass. The problem is I still have slipping.... I noticed though that it is only in 5th gear, I changed over to rotella T and happily so. But still when I get to 5th gear and pull the throttle back I get slipping where its rrevving but no immediate pick up more like slipping into a slow type of pickup. Any ideas? |
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Title: Re: swapping one clutch for another, help me.... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/01/14 at 11:30:37 Youve got no idea what oil Was in it, or how long.. YOure on the right track, slippage is less, correct? You may need to change oil again ( dont sweat the filter) AND, there may be something you can put in the oil to help flush the crap out,, But remember,, theres NOT much room between those plates & it may just take a while to let the oil get in there & move the crappy stuff out.. I would recommend avoiding letting it slip, You feel it slip, back off, dont just wait on it to catch.; Someone may come along & totally toss my advice in the junk pile,, so, wait. |
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Title: Re: swapping one clutch for another, help me.... Post by wickedbiker on 06/01/14 at 12:42:23 I appreciate all the help I can get on this and you may be right I havent had a great deal of ride time with the new oil. I had Valvoline motorcycle oil for wet clutches in it previously. and I can ride without it slipping in 5th as long as I dont gun it as you said. I really hope I can find a solution or that it goes away sooner or later. It really is the only thing left thats in the way of having a really nice ride. I can't understand why it really only seems to happen in 5th gear I hope there isnt some kind of a gear issue like missing teeth or something. :-/ I did loosen up the clutch cable and adjusted so that it was right between having slack and not having any. then I lightly pushed up on the cable end lever and it was basically sitting on the bottom line. |
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Title: Re: swapping one clutch for another, help me.... Post by verslagen1 on 06/01/14 at 12:59:32 150B01090706000B090710620 wrote:
You should have slack, at least an 1/8" and check with bars lock to lock. Quote:
Maybe's that's too tight. There's a point where there's no clearance between the case and rod. Check the rod length sticking out of the center, 13mm is to long, 12.5 is ok, 12 is on the border of being too short. Also, push come to shove you can shim the springs or get HD springs. |
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Title: Re: swapping one clutch for another, help me.... Post by wickedbiker on 06/02/14 at 06:18:37 So you guys think its the clutch then, even though it is only happening in 5th gear? |
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Title: Re: swapping one clutch for another, help me.... Post by Dave on 06/02/14 at 06:41:10 It is most likely to happen in fifth gear, as the tall gearing places the most load on the engine/transmission. It is also more easily noticed in the high gears and may be slipping in the others as well. This is what the clutch marks look like on a bike with 2,700 miles on it....when the cable is removed (loose) and I hold up with my finger. If your arm is down at the the lower mark it could need a shorter clutch rod than you have now. You can take the existing rod out and grind a bit off of it. As Verslagen posted....you should have 12.5mm of the rod sticking out from the clutch basket. Before you tear things apart however......ride it carefully for a bit and avoid using too much throttle...and see if the clutch work better once the Rotella gets some miles on it. |
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Title: Re: swapping one clutch for another, help me.... Post by wickedbiker on 06/10/14 at 05:22:49 Thank you, sounds good that's what I'll do. If its the rod I have one in another engine I could grind down a bit. |
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