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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Valves & Tensioner /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1398252685 Message started by pgambr on 04/23/14 at 04:31:25 |
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Title: Valves & Tensioner Post by pgambr on 04/23/14 at 04:31:25 Gents, time for me to do a bit of work on the S40. I’m going to adjust my valves and put on the Versay tensioner. I have done a lot of reading from the tech section and have a questions or two. Also, this will be my first go at the nuts and bolts of the bike. First, how long should it take do each of those repairs / tune-ups? Regarding the cam chain tensioner, I thought I remember reading something about having to take the clutch off, but I couldn’t find that in the tech section. I don’t think we have to do that? I think I have all necessary parts and tools so any other insight would be appreciated before I get started. Thanks for you help, best regards. |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by Dave on 04/23/14 at 05:12:48 I would give the project all day....an entire weekend day with an overnight cure of the sealer. You want plenty of time to clean up the parts before you put them back on. Wash the bike a day or two before you start the job and take it for a quick ride to dry it out. I know others have used different forms of RTV - but the Suzukibond is made for the job and I believe it cures slower and gives you more time to get the job done before it sets up. It also seems to have more solids in it, and it does not dry shiny. You also just need a very thin amount of sealer - you should not see a big gob of it squeezing out as you tighten the head cover. Don't buy orange or copper colored RTV.....it looks awful! I believe the Suzuki Bond is about $ 20 a tube - you can also use Three Bond which is a bit cheaper. http://www.bikebandit.com/threebond-liquid-gasket-1194 I have never done the plug repair with the engine in the frame - so I can't help you figure out how to wiggle the head cover in and out of the frame. You do not need to do anything to the clutch when working on the tensioner. Buy a gasket for the exhaust header and a gasket for the clutch cover just in case you need them......and an O-ring for the clutch shaft is not a bad idea. Clean and apply sealant to the rubber grommet where the neutral light comes out of the case. Don't do this! |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by Coaxial on 04/23/14 at 07:35:13 Dave? I thought he was just installing a versy and adjusting valves. What do you mean by this sealant comment? Do I need this!? |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by S-P on 04/23/14 at 07:59:00 68444A53424A472B0 wrote:
Nope. Looks like Dave thought you were doing some head work. Your valve covers have little rubber O-rings so you don't need gaskets or sealant. I did both, it will take you a good Saturday for sure if it's your first time. Be sure you have your exhaust gaskets (get two in case you need to stack them for a tight seal) and your clutch cover gasket, oil and filter, a dab of RTV to put around the little wires that go into the back of the clutch cover (oil leaks there). Mix up some transmission fluid and acetone 50/50 for "nuts-off" it works better than store bought stuff. Dose your exhaust bolts all around (don't forget the ones behind the muffler at the frame) a couple times the night before you start. Remove the bolts at the engine first before you drop the rest of them, you don't want the weight of the exhaust hanging on your engine case. When re-installing, get the exhaust basically hung in place and pretty close before you start tightening down the engine bolts. Use some anti-seize on them and your exhaust bolts, it'll make you life easier down the line. Cut our a piece of cardboard and draw your clutch cover then poke your bolts into the carboard piece where they go so you can keep track of the long and short and gasketed bolts. When you take the clutch cable off there is a little tab you have to bend. Be sure you pay attention to the clutch cable assembly and put it back right before you put the clutch cover back on, otherwise you'll need to pull the clutch cover to get it on again. On the valves, once you are sure you are at TDC, get your .0003 to .0006 feelers and check the clearances. If the 0003 doesn't fit they're too tight and need adjusting. If it fits, go up a size. If you get to .0006 then it's too loose and you need to adjust. Anything in between is in spec and don't mess with it. Don't go loosening everything up and adjusting unneccesarily. Take it slow. Take pictures along the way, don't trust your memory about how things go back. Good luck! |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by WD on 04/23/14 at 08:00:54 664A445D4C4449250 wrote:
A lot of us use RTV instead of factory paper gaskets. The orange above just shows you why you should buy gray or black goop (depending on engine color) instead of orange or blue goop. And why you need only a very thin wipe of it on machined surfaces, and not a Chevy 350 valve cover sealing amount. |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by verslagen1 on 04/23/14 at 08:57:30 53544556454E5041554C200 wrote:
Whoops, you mean .003 to .006 (inches) I use .004 and .005" 4 has to fit, 5 shouldn't. |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by Dave on 04/23/14 at 09:05:33 123E302938303D510 wrote:
Ooops....Somehow I got confused with a question about a head plug in another thread. Sorry :o |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by shorty on 04/23/14 at 09:56:02 I was careful and re-used the clutch cover gasket...still no leaks after a long road trip... remember to smear a tiny bit of sealant on the washers with rubber centers (clutch cover) I believe 3 or 4 of the cover bolts have these |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by pgambr on 04/23/14 at 14:20:36 Thanks to all for a lot of real good insight, I'm sure it will be very helpful. :) |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by S-P on 04/23/14 at 15:59:03 22312627383533313A65540 wrote:
Yep, that's exactly what I meant. Danged twitchy fingers... I shouldn't try to type sober. ;) |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/23/14 at 18:15:46 First time? Dont even worry about how long it SHOULD take.. It takes as long as it takes to get it right,, Tightening the jam nut CAN open the adjustment IF the jam nut has slack in the threads,, coupla mine did, A bent screwdriver ( built with 2/ 90* bends, available at Sears) IIRC, one end is flat, the other Philips, I cut the Philips to a flat that was 90* away from the other end.. Makes holding the adjuster "right" while snugging the jsm nut a snap! |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by pgambr on 04/27/14 at 16:52:02 Gents: I opened up the top of the engine and checked the valve clearance. Evidently they are way off or I am doing something wrong. I got the TDC right, I'm pretty sure. But it appears I have 1/8 inch to much clearance. Is this even possible? As always, your help is appreciated. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by oldNslow on 04/27/14 at 17:17:35 1/8 of a inch is .125 in. Correct clearance is .003 -.006 in.. I don't think it's likely your valves are that loose. If you do have the engine at TDC on the compression stroke then there is something wrong with whatever you are using to measure the gap, or with how you are doing it. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1325991352 |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by S-P on 04/27/14 at 17:18:35 584F49454A5A280 wrote:
hmmmm... sumpins not right.... 1/8 I doubt the bike would have been runnin. |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by verslagen1 on 04/27/14 at 17:53:54 Tell us how you set tech. Sorry to be pedantic, but we gotta check everything before we panic. |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by pgambr on 04/27/14 at 17:55:57 Do you mean the TDC? |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by verslagen1 on 04/27/14 at 17:57:43 Yep dang autocorrect |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by pgambr on 04/27/14 at 18:01:51 I took off the valve covers, took of the cover where the 17 mm bolt turns counter clockwise, took out the spark plug. Turned the 17 mm a couple times to the left, wasn’t sure if I got it right, put a screw driver in the spark plug hole, turn left twice, ensured the two markings were aligned while going counter clockwise. Piston is all the way to the top and the markings are aligned correctly. |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by verslagen1 on 04/27/14 at 18:53:21 was this the 1st tdc after intake? |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by pgambr on 04/27/14 at 18:59:17 Sorry, I don't know? :-? |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by pgambr on 04/27/14 at 19:01:03 Did I screw it up pretty good? This was my first go at something like this. |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by oldNslow on 04/27/14 at 19:42:47 I don't think you screwed anything up. I just don't think you've got the feeler gauge in the right spot. The gauge goes between the bottom of the adjuster - the screw in the end of the rocker arm- and the top of the valve stem. I can't think of any other possibility unless you loosened the locknuts before you measured the gap for the first time and accidentally backed the screws out. Check the parts diagram and the picture again. |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by verslagen1 on 04/27/14 at 19:47:46 1106000C0313610 wrote:
It's possible you're on the wrong tdc. With the covers off rotate the crankshaft till you see the intake valves move. The keep going it tdc either by the marks or piston. |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by pgambr on 04/28/14 at 02:56:17 I'll give it another try here in a bit. Is this correct, there should be some play in the rocker arms when done correctly? There was none yesterday evening. :( |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by oldNslow on 04/28/14 at 04:53:09 7364626E6171030 wrote:
With the engine at TDC on the compression stroke both rocker arms will be loose. The valves have to be closed then -the rocker arms not pushing on them. The rocker arms won't move much, but they will move. Just enough so you can wiggle them and confirm that they are not touching the valve stems. The gap between the adjusting screw and the valve stem is what you are supposed to measure. So: If you can't wiggle both rocker arms a little, you don't have the engine at TDC on the compression stroke. If you are getting a measurement of .125, with the engine rotated anywhere, you are measuring in the wrong spot. |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by pgambr on 04/28/14 at 06:36:33 Ok, I tried it again this morning. The piston is up and the alignment marks coincide. Turning counter clockwise, intake rockers go down (first turn), the outtake rockers go down (2nd turn), alignment marks coincide and the piston is up. Does this sound correct? I think I was measuring the wrong spot, but feel free to interject. Thanks for your help. |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by oldNslow on 04/28/14 at 07:01:42 7760666A6575070 wrote:
Sounds like you have the engine in the right place. If the timing marks line up and you can wiggle both rocker arms that confirms it. Just my opinion, and you might get some disagreement about this from others. If you measure the clearance, and all four valves fall somewhere within the specified range, I'd leave them alone, even if all four are not exactly the same. That's why it's a range and not a single number. |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by pgambr on 04/28/14 at 07:16:02 The rocker arms didn't want to wiggle during any part of the 720 turns? :-? |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by verslagen1 on 04/28/14 at 07:32:20 2730363A3525570 wrote:
You want the TDC between intake and exhaust. So, intake valves move, then a little more than a half turn and line the marks up. Exhaust valves should not move. |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by pgambr on 04/28/14 at 07:50:02 Thanks Verslagen, let me start from the beginning. If the piston is up and the rockers on both ends are up how many turns till you get to the TDC? |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by verslagen1 on 04/28/14 at 08:08:44 How many licks does it take to get to the center of a toosie roll pop? W/o knowing the previous state of the engine, there's no way of knowing what TDC you're on. suck squeeze bang blow, each of these strokes takes 180° (half turn) a TDC occurs every full turn. You want to adjust the valve at the end of the squeeze stroke. This is where it is crucial that the valves are closed. rotate the engine and watch the valves move... intake opens, then a little less then a half turn they close a full turn later, the exhaust opens and closes again. almost immediately the intake will open then close again. one half turn later, you'll be at TDC at the end of the compression stroke. bingo, adjust the valves. Do this several times to memorize it... and to check yourself. it's easy with a little experience. |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by pgambr on 04/28/14 at 08:14:47 Ok thanks, I'll give it another shot. |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by pgambr on 04/28/14 at 11:57:08 Well I did it, not sure if I got it right. All that clicking noise is gone from the head, but my only concern is if I got them them a bit to tight. Are their any tell tell signs? Again thanks for your help. |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by verslagen1 on 04/28/14 at 12:09:48 If you think it's too tight, try again. unless you got someone else to check it for you... there's no better way than to put the effort in and check it. evaluating your work by ear... you'll be an old hand at this in no time. [smiley=thumbsup.gif] |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by pgambr on 04/30/14 at 17:43:25 Gents, thanks for your insight. I had them just a hair to tight, now to loose. I'll get them where they need to be soon enough. I would have posted something sooner, but that storm did some damage to the town next to me and cut a major fiber optic line. |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by pgambr on 05/01/14 at 17:54:41 I finally got it right. Man yeah! :) |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by verslagen1 on 05/01/14 at 20:07:46 yea. ;) |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by S-P on 05/01/14 at 21:02:29 697E78747B6B190 wrote:
I love that feeling! Good fer ya! ;D |
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Title: Re: Valves & Tensioner Post by pgambr on 05/02/14 at 22:45:01 I took it out today and it ran really good, thanks again!! ;) |
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