|
SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> VHT curing problem. /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1397980521 Message started by uigiroux on 04/20/14 at 00:55:16 |
|
Title: VHT curing problem. Post by uigiroux on 04/20/14 at 00:55:16 I recently sanded down my exhaust header as the chrome had gone off color from running lean. I looked through the forums and picked up the proper grit sandpaper, acetone to clean the sanded header well, tack clothed it, then applied primer, matte black paint, and a coat of clear for a slight satin shine. I don't have an oven to cure it in and the can had instructions for an on bike curing. Idle at ten minutes, cool for twenty. Idle for twenty minutes, cool twenty minutes, finally, ride your bike normal for 30 minutes, let cool, and your done (hooray...) Well I had my pipes looking amazing and right from the start the curing went bad. Before I even could cure them I had to get the exhaust on, well when I tighten the header on, the uncured paint that had force applied from both ends cracked, or at least for was smashed, causing an improper seal, though not my main concern as it's covered up, I'd prefer my whole painted header remain looking great no matter where the paint is. The major issue though was despite having followed the instructions on the can, within the first ten minutes of curing, the paint at only the ends of each side I applied paint to started to turn grey, back to a darker version of the primer, so I don't know if it was burning the paint off, as the was a good bit of snow, but I read that's to be expected. Well I went ahead and did all three steps and at the end of it I basically had a foot in the center where it remained looking great, and on each side from then on it faded slightly grey, and very quickly was just the primer color. I spoke to a friend who does automotive painting and read up some more and from it I've gathered that the time between primer and the color on terms of letting it dry needs to be more like at least a day. Also upon having taken the pipes off to try again, like I mentioned earlier, the paint around the head of the header that fits the gasket was completely bare metal at the corners and definitely looked bad on the level parts that the pressure of attaching it was applied to. So I didn't strip it as I feel I did a good job of at least sanding it and there is 95% off it covered in a cured VHT paint. So I wet sanded the header evenly till all was perfectly smooth, regardless of the color I was at and applied three coats of primer again, but I waited twenty minutes between coats instead of the recommended ten, and then let it dry for two days. I then sanded the primer with a very fine 1000 grit sand paper till the primer was no longer shiny (at the advise of my painter friend) and today I applied 3 coats of the matte black. Well I had some issues with the paint being applied evenly, so I ended up with some nasty ripples in the paint. Oh well... So this is where I currently am. I just waited about 6 hours and with different grits I lightly sanded the troubled areas so it's one again smooth and it's still all black, I didn't go very hard. I did run out of paint though, so tomorrow I plan on buying one more can of the matte black and applying either one light then one heavy, or just two light coats of the black (if you think I should do otherwise please let me know!!!) and I will follow a few hours later with two coats of the clear VHT for a nice satin finish. I originally did just the one, but I'm worried it will burn off.... So, that long explanation leads me to the main purpose of this thread. How can I cure this without firstly burning off paint as my only main option is to do it on the bike. But before I even do that, is there some way for me to maybe cure the end of the header so once it's smashed in there the paint doesn't just get crushed right off? I've read of using a heat gun but I have one and I put out to the painted area I had to sand down earlier and it just made it revert back to a liquid almost. A more logical, but precisely executed thing I could do which I've read works is to take a blow torch at one end and let it cure that way. Now I imagine this would not be a flame to the paint approach, but rather taking the torch and have the header pointed directly up so the head applied goes through it like normal, and from some distance hold the torch upwards towards the header until the desired temperature is reached, or just doing that off and on slowly heating it then letting it cool etc... I'm just not very sure of how I'm supposed to make this work without at the very least compromising that portion of the header where it connects to the bike. Granted, no one will see it, but I am anal about things being perfect and I've seen others do it on YouTube without this problem and I will be getting those and results darnit! Lol, ok, so others on this forum have mentioned that for the rest of the curing process to just take it crazy slow, like ten seconds on at first and then cool five minutes, and slowly work up from there. It can't really be that tedious can it? If so, VHT is going to get an ear full from me on the misrepresentation of how to apply their product. I'm already pissed I have to buy another can of black just for our what, 1.5-2 foot header? Granted I'm doing it a second time, but if they'd give more details about ways to cure then this wouldn't be a problem.... So please any help as to how I can make this look the way it does before I cure, after I cure? Also any suggestions on my previous question about how I plan to finish the painting process would be much appreciated! |
|
Title: Re: VHT curing problem. Post by pgambr on 04/20/14 at 03:04:02 I did mine last year very similar manner to the way you tried and it didn’t work. I’m guessing the pipe gets to hot to cure it correctly. The third time I used BBQ paint and it worked very well. I used an electric palm sander with 100 grit paper and got every last bit of everything I could get off. I gave it 2 good coats and let it sit overnight. The important part now. I warmed it up and cured it 4 times before I went down the road and let it get real hot. At idle: 1) 30-60 secs, then let it completely cool, 2) 2-3 minutes, then completely cool, 3) 5 minutes, then let it completely cool, 4) 5-10 minutes, then let it completely cool. I couldn’t get the expensive paint to stay on but, the BBQ paint from lowes did great. Hope this helps. |
|
Title: Re: VHT curing problem. Post by WD on 04/20/14 at 07:19:23 VHT rattlecans have been garbage since the 1990s. Rustoleum BBQ paint cures well, but plan to recoat it every 2-3 years. If you get tired of black, you can also get white, silver or bronze BBQ paints. No primer required... 1000 grit primer sanding? You aren't shooting House of Kolor ultra thin almost impossible to use base-clear catalyzed urethane... 320 grit on primer at the absolute finest, 150 grit would be better. VHT is like pressurized mud, it doesn't flow worth a hoot and needs a pretty fierce mechanical bite to stay in place. |
|
Title: Re: VHT curing problem. Post by uigiroux on 04/20/14 at 20:17:21 6073370 wrote:
Well that's bad news to hear, but I've already invested in all the paints and am not about to start from scratch, so it's there any ideas on how to make the VHT work because I've got it all finished painting and clear coated, it's just drying now for at least a day. Should I use a blow torch like I mentioned or what can I do to make this work?? |
|
Title: Re: VHT curing problem. Post by uigiroux on 04/20/14 at 21:55:01 So here is my header, all ready to be cured.... How it stays looking so nice. |
|
Title: Re: VHT curing problem. Post by old_rider on 04/20/14 at 22:33:20 You got any space heaters or a blow dryer that is really powerful? Kinda do a semi-cure before you put it on.... put the heaters on the length blowing on it and put the hair dryer down the tube.... The hair dryer coils get up to 300 or 320 degrees, the air it blows can heat a surface up to about 140 degrees. |
|
Title: Re: VHT curing problem. Post by WD on 04/20/14 at 23:34:41 7A7971677C717067150 wrote:
That's the best option at this point. Cure it from the outside in and the inside out at the same time. You have got to let it solvent out gas for a couple days before you heat cycle it on the engine. The heater and dryer will speed that process up. FWIW, ALL rattlecan exhaust paint sucks... Realistically, you sanded to fine and you applied the paint to a cold pipe. Once it has heat cycled a couple times, if it looks funky, get the pipe warm to the touch and then coat it again. AFTER scrubbing the whole thing with an acetone soaked green or red scotch brite pad. |
|
Title: Re: VHT curing problem. Post by Dave on 04/21/14 at 03:58:42 Any of the high temperature paints are.......mediocre looking and somewhat temporary in durability. The thermal stresses are just too much for paint and they develope minute cracks.....and eventually the moisture begins to get down in the cracks and allows rust to show up. Also the finish begins to lose color after being used for a while and all of them end up looking flat and bleached out. Also the coating seems to be more durable if don't put it on too thick, and cure it nice and slow. If the part is too big for my oven....I start the curing process by placing the painted part in my car that is parked in the sun for a couple of days...that is good for 120 degrees or so! I also will put the part out in the direct sun and let it bake. If you can still smell the paint on the part....it is too soon to put it on the engine and run it. Then when I put it on the engine and run it, I start the engine and only run it for a minute....and shut it down and let it cool. I do this repeatedly....each time running it just a bit longer. Never get it so hot that it smokes or makes a strong smell. Ceramic coating is the best approach if you don't want chrome. This company does it for $ 14 a foot which is the best price I have found so far. It appears from their website they are a bit backed up right now, not sure how much of a delay to expect. http://boneheadperformance.com/ |
|
Title: Re: VHT curing problem. Post by uigiroux on 04/21/14 at 08:28:14 774C4156474B50564D454857240 wrote:
In hindsight I wish I'd just had my header sandblasted which I could have done for like $10 and our header is what, like 2 feet so like they would just charge $30 assuming it was stripped of the chrome to their satisfaction as they say there is an additional charge for stripping chrome, but shipping from Houston to them in a decent time with proper packaging, that's what would be the deal breaker. What I should have just done was gone to Polydyn here in Houston, dropped it off. They told me it'd be a week and cost just $70. You'd think in Houston there would be more than one company that does ceramic coating, but nope, just these guys. Now I've gone and spent probably about $50 for all the paints, chemicals, sanding pads and tack cloths etc... not to mention at least ten hours of just fiddling with it. If this doesn't work in just dropping it off there, I just didn't before because my bike is my only form of transportation and I can't be without that for a week, but semester is up in a few weeks so well see... I hope this just takes and u can spend that money on a new Mikuni VM36 carburetor, and a UFO. Scratch that, I have fiberglassing to do! Spend money so I can fabricate new parts... |
|
Title: Re: VHT curing problem. Post by pgambr on 04/21/14 at 11:17:07 Here is a pic of mine I did with Rustoleum BBQ paint about 7 months ago. You can't go wrong, give it a shot. Only $5 a can at lowes. |
|
Title: Re: VHT curing problem. Post by Boofer on 04/21/14 at 20:00:07 I used whatever AutoZone sells--HIGH TEMP Rustoleum or Duplicolor for primer and color. Any way, they were around $20 for primer and paint. Use rough grit paper and plenty of elbow grease. Clamping in a vice and beltsander helped on long runs. Tear paper into 1" or 2" and get inside curve like shining shoes. No curing. Just wait about ten minutes between coats. Ride after an hour or two. Cheap, simple, and it works. :) |
|
Title: Re: VHT curing problem. Post by uigiroux on 04/22/14 at 08:37:16 Well I don't have a space heater but I do have a heat gun so I spent about an hour yesterday going over the header, let it cool over night and I'll probably do that a few more times before I even attempt to cure on the bike. I sent VHT an email complaining about the results so if this doesn't work I'm gonna demand a refund. |
|
Title: Re: VHT curing problem. Post by uigiroux on 04/23/14 at 19:00:51 So after many days of letting my paint dry and going over the outside with my heat gun for about 30-45 minutes 4 times I've finally got my exhaust back on the bike. I'm currently waiting for it to cool, I've gotten up to about 5 minutes of running, starting with 30 seconds and then add a minute after every 20 minutes of cooling, along with using my heat gun for the outside as its running and so far so good... I don't want to jinx myself but it looks like it's going to finally take. No bubbling, chipping, or cracking and it's gotten hot enough that the smoke has started. While I was waiting for my paint to dry I contacted VHT about what happened and they offered me a refund. I don't know if I'm going to take it I guess I'll just have to see how this turns out, but if I had the option of just getting this done professionally at Polydyn here in Houston I'd of just done that. Would have been $70 and that includes stripping the chrome so the fact I've spent about $50 - $60 just for a DIY paint job is rather upsetting. Even if it does stay, and it does look great, I can see areas where it's not 100% smooth and being as anal as I am that kinda stuff gets under my skin... OK well here is a pic of what it's looking like now, I'll post another when I finish curing. I will probably end up taking it off and try to smooth out as much as I can after this, but for now I'm pretty happy with my work. |
|
Title: Re: VHT curing problem. Post by old_rider on 04/23/14 at 19:21:30 Good deal....not everyone has a oven for just curing stuff. I was going to suggest a bbq grill if someone had one big enough.... five minutes and turn...just cook it up, then remove after about 10, then 20, then 30, then stick in on the bike.... back yard bill strikes again! LOL 8-) |
|
Title: Re: VHT curing problem. Post by uigiroux on 04/23/14 at 20:00:51 Well I jinxed myself. Overall 95% has held up but the very top part has began to fade very very slightly. As long as it remains black I'll be ok but if it reverts back to a primer grey I'm gonna lose it... |
|
Title: Re: VHT curing problem. Post by LANCER on 04/23/14 at 20:19:05 I used whatever was on the shelf at Autozone; sprayed on a decent coat after I warmed it really well from the inside with a butane torch. Then after the paint was applied I hung it up and used the torch again on the inside of the header to speed the drying/curing. Reheated a few times until it was well done. I did maybe 3-4 coats. It was OK; did not cost much at all; installed the next day and resumed riding. |
|
Title: Re: VHT curing problem. Post by uigiroux on 04/23/14 at 21:39:36 Yeah in hind sight I'm wishing I had used the butane torch on the top most part as that is where this problem mainly occurs on the bike. I went to Autozone also, got the VHT Flame Proof Paint, about $8 a can, so far I've had to get 4.... (primer, color clear, redid paint and had to get another color). I've still got a good amount of color and clear so I think I'll give it one last try with the pipe really hot off the bike and put some more color and clear up top. If that fails I'm getting that refund and having it professionally done. Only gonna cost me about $35 when the refund comes through. |
|
Title: Re: VHT curing problem. Post by uigiroux on 04/24/14 at 12:33:09 Well I'm pissed... The fading of the color only went a few inches from the base of the engine, and I was not happy, but it appeared to have fully cured well. It was dark and so I'm not for sure on this, but after my final curing and letting it cool I went for a ride around the block, and I didn't really crank it to much but when I got back I took a high powered flashlight to it (up until then I had my patio light and a low powered head lamp. Well upon inspection of how faded the pipe got up top I came across a large amount of chipping and cracks. I can't be for sure of taking it for the ride then instead of waiting until today for a ride is the cause, or if it was just like that and I just didn't inspect it closely enough.... Regardless, that's the final straw, I'm stripping it all and getting the refund and having it done professionally. I know I could use BBQ paint as people have pointed out, but they also say that only has a life span of a few years maybe. So given the fact that after a refund I'll be spending like $30 for a professionally done ceramic coating, I'm gonna go that route. Disappointing, but I'm not wasting any more time on the header. I want to start my fiberglassing projects, starting with a custom under engine air scoop, then seat, then tank. |
|
Title: Re: VHT curing problem. Post by shorty on 04/24/14 at 14:48:43 sorry it gave you a fit |
|
Title: Re: VHT curing problem. Post by DaveLKN on 04/24/14 at 20:11:06 Could it be that the clearcoat over the black was the problem? Anyway, you're right- it looks like you're not alone... http://forum.caswellplating.com/liquid-painting-questions/13014-vht-header-paint-disaster.html |
|
Title: Re: VHT curing problem. Post by uigiroux on 04/24/14 at 21:07:55 7C594E5D747376380 wrote:
I saw this and was trying to avoid exactly what happened here, but I think just like in his instance I had to much paint on as I didn't completely strip the original coat of paint, I just sanded it down a bit. I do think the clear coat does affect the outcome and should probably be applied only after you've successfully cured just your color. Not for sure, but that's what I'm guessing... |
|
Title: Re: VHT curing problem. Post by uigiroux on 04/24/14 at 22:40:57 And more fading has come since riding today..... Here is the main issue. |
|
Title: Re: VHT curing problem. Post by uigiroux on 04/24/14 at 22:42:24 Overall. |
|
Title: Re: VHT curing problem. Post by WD on 04/24/14 at 23:02:04 That's normal. Even commercially painted headers for muscle cars and hot rods burn the paint off pretty quickly. Only sure bet is a true ceramic coating. And even they get funky with age... |
|
SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |