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Message started by uigiroux on 04/13/14 at 17:00:40

Title: Absurd hypothetical question.
Post by uigiroux on 04/13/14 at 17:00:40

This doesn't really pertain to the Savage very much, or at least the engine, but would it be possible to take a motorcycle like the Savage or some other great cafe racer styled bike and put a newer sport bike engine in it like a mid 2000's GSXR 600 or 750 without an absurd amount of work needing to be done besides getting it properly mounted on the bike along with radiator, etc... Just to keep it interesting, as this is a Savage forum, let's focus on the Savage. If that's just totally impossible, then any others? I figure obviously a carburated engine would make for the easiest transition. Also one again I realize the absurdity of this and that it'd probably cost a fortune, but I've just been thinking about all the cafe racers out there (even the new ones being built by say Norton or Triumph) and they don't have the kind of power that sport bikes are really capable of, especially if you work the engine over real well... So... anyone want to have a go and tell me how ridiculous of a thought this is or preferably tell me 'IT CAN BE DONE'! Lol...

Title: Re: Absurd hypothetical question.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/13/14 at 17:38:27

Can it be done? Most likely,, But, is the frame geometry & strength sufficient to USE such a power plant? MMmm,, No,, If you want the power that kind of engine makes, why put in on a platform that wouldnt be up to the task of using the power? Get a chassis from something that actually goes fast already & corners hard. It MIGHT work, but dang,, what a load of $$$ & labor sunk if it didnt..

Title: Re: Absurd hypothetical question.
Post by ToesNose on 04/13/14 at 19:12:25

JOG nailed it, for the amount of money it would take there are just too many other viable options for bikes out there. That being said if you have enough money almost anything is possible ;D

Title: Re: Absurd hypothetical question.
Post by S-P on 04/13/14 at 20:39:30

I've always wondered if you can take a Suzuki DR650 motor and retrofit it to a Savage frame. It has a lot more horsepower and seems like a great motor. I'd think if someone could fab a mounting system it would be a cool swap.

Title: Re: Absurd hypothetical question.
Post by uigiroux on 04/13/14 at 23:23:48

696E7F6C7F746A7B6F761A0 wrote:

That's a great point actually. It's got roughly the power you'd have if you sunk a ton of money into the Savage engine and that's stock, plus were still dealing with a thumper engine with the same displacement... I can understand not putting a race engine like I proposed, but people get the kind of power that the DR650 produces from a modified savage engine and they talk nothing but great things about it. So how much would have to be put into doing this besides fitting an engine bracket up for it?

Title: Re: Absurd hypothetical question.
Post by Serowbot on 04/13/14 at 23:41:39

You know it must be easy a pie,... that's why we all do it...
:-?...

Title: Re: Absurd hypothetical question.
Post by gizzo on 04/14/14 at 00:35:18

Sure you could. As long as you have the skills to do it safely and well, why not? People have been doing the same thing forever. Look at all the Triton, Tribsa, Norvin, Vincati, Vindian and the rest of the homebrew conversions. It's a great idea. Years ago I stuck a XL500 (air cooled single) engine into a VT250 (watercooled V twin) and it worked really well and wasn't difficult. Just had to bring the XL ignition system over, modify the frame to take the engine and clear the kick starter, make a new exhaust. Imagine how COOL a Savage bobber or hardtail would be with a Yamaha XS650 twin in it? 8-) . I like the idea of the DR650 swap, too. I'm not doing it tho. I like mine how it is.....

Title: Re: Absurd hypothetical question.
Post by Dave on 04/14/14 at 05:18:44

Let's think this through for a moment. The Savage is a low cost motorcycle that has 30 HP, and has brakes, suspension and a chassis made to handle 30 Horsepower. Now I want to take a 120 HP sport bike motor out of the chassis wth dual front discs and a rear disc brake, great suspension and handling and put it in a bargain crusier? Doesn't sound like a safe venture to me.......unless you never use that available horsepower.

I have seen a few folks install small diesel engines in bikes to get high mpg......the Savage might be a better chassis for that kind of project.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1Cff0kgbls

Title: Re: Absurd hypothetical question.
Post by gizzo on 04/14/14 at 05:43:54

or this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=earZdvjK2ZQ
yeah but nah.....
Have a look at the enfield diesel bikes. The horror...

Title: Re: Absurd hypothetical question.
Post by uigiroux on 04/14/14 at 09:25:15

43787562737F646279717C63100 wrote:

That option was just nicked with the mentioning of the DR650, I'm now talking about the less powerful, more particle, and very doable engines in terms of power, like that in the Savage. Like I said, people spend thousands on our engine just to get the power that engine puts out and it's still a thumper and same displacement. A diesel engine like in the videos is not at all what I had in mind, but I like the work they put into them.

Title: Re: Absurd hypothetical question.
Post by Dave on 04/14/14 at 10:07:21

The point is....the Savage chassis is most likely not as good as the bike that you are taking the donor engine from. Now if you had a Savage with a broken engine or transmission, and a donor crashed bike that had an air cooled single or maybe a twin that is in good shape......and you have lot of time and fabrication skills that you don't know what to do with......anything is possible. Changing engines is not a bolt in scenario and it will require a considerable amount of cutting, welding, and rewiring.

People buy the Savage because it is affordable, low horsepower, light weight, easy to work on, and mostly because it is a big single. Take away the big single and the bike will most likely have lost it's appeal for most folks. Also the Savage is very easy and affordable to transform into a Bobber or Cafe' or Scrambler with bolt on parts and kits.

Now when you have a motorycle with a great chassis and a problematic engine.......the engine transplant made a lot of sense. The Triton (Triumph engine Norton Featherbed frame) is one example where the combination made for a better bike than either was originally.

Title: Re: Absurd hypothetical question.
Post by uigiroux on 04/14/14 at 10:34:40

I agree, but the DR650 is almost identical to our engine and puts out... What 46 bhp? People big bore and upgrade camshafts and get expensive carbs, and so on and so on and get what, at max like 60bhp? With all the work that goes into that, it seems like the DR650 swap would be less work really...

Title: Re: Absurd hypothetical question.
Post by Dave on 04/14/14 at 11:13:41

627E707E6578626F170 wrote:

With all the work that goes into that, it seems like the DR650 swap would be less work really...

Have you ever looked at a DR650 engine? Exhaust port is on the other side, motor mounts are all different, countershaft is located really high and would interfere with the swingarm mount.

You asked a question, I answered it honestly, and it appears that most folks agree with me.....as I have never seen an engine transplant into a Savage frame. We have adapted fuel tanks, wheels, brakes, mufflers, chain and sprockets, headlights, forks, seats, shocks......but not engines. It is not a project that is worth the time or effort or expense.

I am here to help....not here to argue a point. It appears I can't be of any additional help on this topic Hope it works out for you.

Title: Re: Absurd hypothetical question.
Post by uigiroux on 04/14/14 at 12:43:28

Dave, I'm sorry if I came off as argumentative, that was not my intention, I was just trying to specify for more details on the bike, not to argue the point or something. I wasn't rude in any way; kinda making a mountain out of a mole hill I think.

Title: Re: Absurd hypothetical question.
Post by daltmyer920 on 04/14/14 at 13:13:46

Doesn't seem to safe to me

Title: Re: Absurd hypothetical question.
Post by S-P on 04/14/14 at 17:04:20

03383522333F242239313C23500 wrote:

Have you ever looked at a DR650 engine? Exhaust port is on the other side, motor mounts are all different, countershaft is located really high and would interfere with the swingarm mount.... It is not a project that is worth the time or effort or expense.

I am here to help....not here to argue a point. It appears I can't be of any additional help on this topic Hope it works out for you.

It's all time and money... and how much of a challenge someone wants to take on. Personally I look at stuff like the Voodoo vintage frame swaps or Ryca builds and that looks like a ton more work and money than the end product is worth, but then if people weren't in the market for stuff like that no one would be selling kits to them. That's what makes this country great. ;)

Title: Re: Absurd hypothetical question.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/14/14 at 17:20:24

You Betchya! Sell ya a bear trap in kit form, ya build it, set it, step in it, then ya sell it.. Gotta LUVITT!