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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Bike will not start and various other problems /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1397185756 Message started by Izzy on 04/10/14 at 20:09:16 |
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Title: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Izzy on 04/10/14 at 20:09:16 Well I've about given up on this thing. I have a 2001 Suzuki Savage (about 16k miles) that I just bought as my first road bike. It ran fine for the first two weeks I had it. It even did a 60 mile trip on the freeway. My bad luck all started when I accidentally left it in park (dirtbikes don't tend to have this issue...) while I was at work. All told it was in park for about 4 and a half hours. It completely killed the battery so I jumped it with a car and it started right up. I rode the bike after that for about 45 minutes with no problem. I went to dinner for about 20 minutes, bike started up and ran fine after that as well. Took another break from riding for about 2 hours and then got back on and it worked fine. I let it sit over night and the next morning decided the weather was good so I was going to ride it to work. It kept turning over but wouldn't start. I didn't have time and left it there. That's when I came on here looking for information and I didn't find anything really. I did however find out about the cam chain tensioner issue this bike is apparently notorious for and petcock issues. I decided to change the spark plug. I really had no other ideas. I changed it and still had the same results. So after changing it I decided to give it more gas and I got it to run! As long as I didn't try to idle it and as long as I gave it a buttload of gas I could get it to start and stay running. Let go of the gas for too long and it would die. I rode it over to my friends to check out the cam chain because I noticed the noise. My cam chain adjuster and definitely came out completely... So I took a bullet and bought the verslavy and just installed it tonight. I just got it all put back together and new oil put in and went to start it up and I got nothing! So I hooked up a battery tender/charger/starter thing and tried again. It will go "thump thump thump" as long as I have the starter running and the gas turned a little. It starts to sound like it will go but if you let off the starter it just dies. It actually almost sounds like it is running until you let the starter off. I'm back to having absolutely no clue what to do. The battery as far as I can tell is fine (it's not stock), it's a brand new spark plug, and the air filter looked pretty dang clean. I even just rechecked the gap on the plug tonight to make sure it was correct. This is quite frustrating especially since this bike needs to be out of my friends garage A.S.A.P. since his land lady is getting ticked of it being in there (plus I found out he is moving in a week). Any ideas? |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by old_rider on 04/10/14 at 20:11:55 Take your battery out and have it tested... if you killed it, there is a possibility a couple cells are bad and the draw on the remaining ones might have lessoned their capability to provide enough amperage to start your bike. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Izzy on 04/10/14 at 20:15:55 Would it not start even with the battery charger set to the jumpstart mode? ( think it's 125v 12amp but I can't remember) I guess I don't have much to lose but I figured it would at least start with it set to jumpstart mode. The lights and starter all seem to be fine even without the charger but I put it on to try and rule it out. I've never really understood electronics though... :( |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by S-P on 04/10/14 at 20:19:27 Funny... a rash of starting issues after installing a cam chain tensioner. I had the same problem after I changed mine. Check out the long thread (I think it is mhart) who is having the same issue. LOTS of suggestions there. First thing I'd suggest (after you check the battery) is shooting some starter fluid into the carb and see if it starts up. That eliminates a lot of possible problems right there. If you have the stock petcock check that out too (there's some info in the tech section I think on how to test it... basically turn it to PRIME to get gas to flow through it without the vacuum assist). If it starts with starter fluid you may have a dirty carb or fuel flow issue. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by verslagen1 on 04/10/14 at 22:15:26 If all mechanical issues have been thoroughly checked out, it's time to check electrical. Try the ether or starting fluid 1st and let us know the results. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by swedishbiker on 04/10/14 at 22:21:26 Take always the plug for inspection if bike don't start. One try to start with bad battery can make the plug wet. Clean with steel-brush and burn it with lighter, start and drive :) |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/10/14 at 22:58:58 PROVE your battery is good. Dont believe it is, dont hope it is. Have it tested. This is a frustrating bear trap. It can be spinning over fast enough to start, BUT, they wont,, A slightly shabby battery can be the whole problem. I know ya said it was running,, have ya added gas? If so, is there a chance the gas was old? Maybe you should check fuel level.,.you mite be sitting right on the line.. flip it to rserve,., |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Izzy on 04/12/14 at 08:43:55 Thanks for all the tips I will give them a shot hopefully this week and let you guys know if anything works. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Izzy on 04/15/14 at 19:26:45 Alright so here's what I have done so far. 1. Took the battery to O'Reillys and they tested it. It came back as a good battery. Is this a reliable test? Are the results trustworthy? 2. Tried the starter fluid in the carb. It didn't seem to do anything all. Infact I think it made it bog down a little even. 3. Tried prime, reserve and normal petcock modes. No luck. I do have gas in the tank at least a gallon. Should I put more in? Here is a video of what it sounds like/how it is acting. The sound isn't very good unfortunately but if you watch you can tell that when the starter is engaged it sounds like it is running. The second I let go it dies. Around the 30 second mark I let go and it kept running for 3 seconds or so. That's the longest it has ran after letting go of the starter since I did all this repair work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RKI6FsNeoY&feature=youtu.be |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by verslagen1 on 04/15/14 at 20:00:22 what's the air filter look like? kinda sounds like a dirty carb. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Izzy on 04/15/14 at 20:01:42 It looked fairly clean as far as I could tell but I've never seen what the original was supposed to look like. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by BobR on 04/15/14 at 20:50:55 Try a little gas in the spark plug hole. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by S-P on 04/15/14 at 21:19:55 7975787D7771797D6E7166140 wrote:
Did you let the starter fluid evaporate a little before you hit the starter? You want a couple second shot, let it evaporate a little so its in a gas form, not a 5-10 second blast of liquid into the cylinder. It sounds like you have spark because it ran there for a couple seconds, even if it was crappy. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by mhart731 on 04/15/14 at 21:36:53 I'm interested to see where this goes. This seems to be very very similar to my problem. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by S-P on 04/15/14 at 21:41:28 5A5F564543000406370 wrote:
I had the same problem after I changed my cam chain tensioner. Wouldn't start. I ended up using starter fluid and got it going. It ran like crap and I put new gas in it and it ran much better. When it was really cold I needed starter fluid to get it going even with the choke. Another thing that happened was it smoked really bad for a few minutes after starting for a couple weeks after I did the work, then that cleared up. Eventually I didn't need the starter fluid to get it going in the mornings, just the normal choke routine. No clue why. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Izzy on 04/21/14 at 22:00:00 Slight update: my friend was messing around with it tonight and after about an hour he said he got it to start. He said he had to pull the throttle full twist and if he took it off the charger it immediately died. Perhaps it's a battery issue afterall? I'm heading over tomorrow or wednesday hopefully to try and work with it. Edit: he said he used the starter fluid to get it working. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by verslagen1 on 04/21/14 at 22:15:26 started and running? full throttle indicates flooding... what jets do you have installed? yes, battery issue. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Izzy on 04/21/14 at 23:42:38 It was running apparently but only if he kept the charger on. The jets as far as I know are stock but I wouldn't know since I bought it used. I imagine they are stock though. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Dane Allen on 04/22/14 at 20:00:20 5C505D5852545C584B5443310 wrote:
When you jumped the bike with the car, was the car running? Not running, the average car battery puts out something like 13.8 to 14.something volts where a running car can put out upwards of 16 to 18 volts. The bike sounds like it wants to run but, the way I understand it, the Savage is unable to run on it's own without constant power where as a car can run off the alternator with no battery. My vote is the jump, if the car was running, burned a few things... |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Izzy on 05/07/14 at 18:04:22 I don't have any memory of starting the car but I honestly can't remember. Sorry about the long wait before posting again. Did a lot of work on it though. Okay so major update: 1. Pulled carb out and cleaned it out (it looked perfectly fine) 2. Drained tank and put 1.5 gallons of fresh fuel in 3. Bought a brand new battery for it It's running about the exact same as it did before except now I don't need to keep it hooked up to the charger. The thing I have noticed is it required me to turn the throttle about half way for it to run, and there is no gas response once it's running (same rpms no matter how far back the throttle is pulled). It runs better with the choke out. Running on prime, reserve, or normal is all the same as far as I could tell. I'm out of ideas again. Here's a video of it running now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ru7s-mSAkc&feature=youtu.be |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by verslagen1 on 05/07/14 at 18:28:59 Looks like the slide is stuck. Idle is way too low. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Izzy on 05/07/14 at 18:36:25 What is a slide? |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by old_rider on 05/07/14 at 19:07:43 Went back and reread whole thread slowly...old guy... You say idles no matter how much you twist the throttle? does it return from twist on its own? can you twist it easier than normal? The slide is the round tube coming down from the top in the middle, it has a needle valve inside, how exactly did you "clean" the carb? looked at video..... did you put a different vacuum line on it? Does sound like a sticky tube.... just don't know everything you have done to it...besides what you put down... Would the rectifier burn up on a jump and not be putting out enough voltage?? |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Izzy on 05/07/14 at 20:17:26 You say idles no matter how much you twist the throttle? does it return from twist on its own? can you twist it easier than normal? Yes, that's what it was running like with the throttle halfway open to all the way open. If I let go it died. It returns by itself and it twists as normal. The slide is the round tube coming down from the top in the middle, it has a needle valve inside, how exactly did you "clean" the carb? I took it out and basically just followed the instructions in one of the threads that was on here. Took the plastic/rubber float/slide thing off and then sprayed the rest of it down with carb cleaner. Does the slide need to be greased or anything? Maybe I got rid of too much grease? looked at video..... did you put a different vacuum line on it? The original vacuum line cracked so I replaced the vacuum line with some vacuum hose from autozone. Does sound like a sticky tube.... just don't know everything you have done to it...besides what you put down... Would the rectifier burn up on a jump and not be putting out enough voltage?? This is a good question I don't know the answer to. Anyone know? I sure hope not... I've wasted so much money on this bike already. Is it possible there is just an issue with the vacuum petcock? |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by verslagen1 on 05/07/14 at 21:10:09 slide has to be clean, even fingerprints will make it stick. spray the bore with carb cleaner, wipe it off with a paper towel. spray the slide down with carb cleaner, don't spray the rubber, may eat it up. and that thing is expensive. wipe it down with a paper towel, don't touch the tube any more. insert it into the carb and align the rubber ducky, insert spring and install the cap. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Izzy on 05/17/14 at 20:20:35 Okay well today I went out and cleaned the slide with carb cleaner and put it back in and made sure the rubber diaphragm was all lined up. I got the same results as before, there's no real response when I pull on the throttle. Could it be a petcock issue? Timing chain issue? I have no idea. I finally got the bike at my house though (had to put it on a trailer) so at least I should be able to work on it more often hopefully. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by S-P on 05/17/14 at 21:12:29 Shot in the dark here: Throttle cable? |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/17/14 at 23:48:42 Look at the carb & twist the throttle,.,.Is the throttle cable pulling the carb to the open position? If you reach down to the idle adjust & swing that part & open the gas up, If you swing that part & it winds up, then the throttle cable is done,, |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Izzy on 05/18/14 at 21:53:43 Pretty sure the throttle cable is fine from what I can see. Unless you mean the thing the throttle cable pulls on is messed up? |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/18/14 at 22:00:45 Nope,, if youre seeing the kinda 1/2 moon part the cable goes to swing when ya twist the throttle, then the cable is doin its job. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by S-P on 05/18/14 at 22:05:05 2E222F2A20262E2A392631430 wrote:
Just be sure that when you twist the throttle the half moon shaped plate it connects to turns. I'd try manually turning the plate to see if that makes any difference in the engine running. If you can manually turn the plate and it gets gas and revs up then maybe your cable is hooked up wrong or something. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Izzy on 05/19/14 at 10:55:39 20273625363D2332263F530 wrote:
Just be sure that when you twist the throttle the half moon shaped plate it connects to turns. I'd try manually turning the plate to see if that makes any difference in the engine running. If you can manually turn the plate and it gets gas and revs up then maybe your cable is hooked up wrong or something. [/quote] Oh okay I'll give that a shot after work today. From what I could see the other day though it appeared to be moving the unit like normal. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Izzy on 05/21/14 at 08:57:46 Throttle cable is working fine. The little metal thing it pulls on is moving and whatnot. Anyone have any other ideas? |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Steve H on 05/21/14 at 15:28:22 Did we determine that the slide is fine? No vacuum leaks...in the top or the vacuum hose connection for the petc0ck. The diaphram in the top should not have any holes or tears in it. Is there any possibility the timing could be off? When it is running do you have dark black exhaust smoke? Does it smell extremely rich? If you took the needle out of the slide, you did put the spring under the circlip so it pushes the clip and needle up? |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Izzy on 05/21/14 at 15:44:05 657E27242522202F160 wrote:
The slide appeared to be fine. I couldn't see any tears or holes in the diaphragm. I never took the needle out of the slide. The exhaust seems normal as far as I can tell. Definitely not black smoke coming out. I guess the next step is to zip tie the tube onto the petcock and carb and make sure it is fine. The problem with the starting happened before I changed it out though, so I'm doubtful it is the tube but you never know. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Steve H on 05/22/14 at 15:12:00 I went back and looked over the thread and found your video. To me it seems to be sloppy rich from the sound and the misfiring. If you've got fuel in the carb bowl, since it runs, you must, it should at the very least idle on it and speed up a little when you twist the throttle. When it runs and then shuts down, pull the vacuum hose loose from the carb right side. Is there any fuel in it? If so, your petc0ck is leaking. Or, just try disconnecting the vacuum hose, plug the vacuum tap and see if it runs better. This would rule out the petc0ck having a hole in its diaphram and allowing fuel to be sucked through all the time no matter the setting. Like someone already said, having to open the throttle and keep it way open is a sign of being very rich. Sticking float, way oversize jets, fuel getting into the engine without passing through the carb. Did you do the petcock test? I don't remember seeing where you did it. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Izzy on 05/22/14 at 21:25:47 1308515253545659600 wrote:
The petcock test was the next thing on my list of stuff to try. It's just so odd to me it works 100% perfect the day before then in the morning absolutely nothing. I guess that's how things are though. I'll go ahead and try your suggestions and do the petcock test as well. It was my first gut feeling it might be a petcock issue which is why I replaced the vacuum hose (the old one had cracks in it). I'll be out of town for the holiday weekend so it might be a while until I am able to work on it and give you all an update. I just want to thank everyone here you are all awesome for putting up with me and for giving me continual responses! |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/22/14 at 22:47:12 Sometimes the petcock dies over time, plays nice one day, tosses out a few oddball hassles the next day, back to right a day,, just impossible to nail down.. I wouldnt even hassle with the test,, screw it.. get a Raptor, not a box that SAYS its a Raptor for $12.00. The Yamaha shop charged me about 27 bucks,, I knew it was the real deal,, no freight, no wait, Immediate change in how it ran.. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by shovelbum87 on 05/26/14 at 15:15:34 Just for the heck of it, double check the wires coming out of the stator, mine were completely fused together and were shorting out, if you check the three yellow wires coming off of the regulator down to the bottom of the case if you squeeze the wire harness and hear something that sounds scratchy I bet you have the same problem I did. if you feel that they may be bad pull the magneto cover off and you may need a new stator set up. I soldered mine back together, seems to be working I don't trust if for long but it worked for now |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Izzy on 07/01/14 at 19:35:49 This is a long overdue question/update. I have had absolutely zero time to put into the savage with work and other obligations. It's been a real bummer. I bought some rubber plugs to try and do a petcock test but they were the wrong size. Anyways, my friend was thinking maybe it won't start because of the clutch safety switch or the kickstand safety switch not working correctly. What do you guys all think? I was trying to find more information on them but I apparently suck really bad with the search tool. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by S-P on 07/01/14 at 21:01:55 5D515C5953555D594A5542300 wrote:
Check out the technical documents on the home page. There might be something there on the kickstand/clutch safety switches. It's a common topic. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by DaveLKN on 07/01/14 at 21:23:55 At this point, my money's on the petcock being the problem. Who's with me? 8-) BTW Izzy, where are you located? Gotta be some Savage riders in your area that could be excellent moral support to help you get it running again so together you can frequent establishments that cater to those gentlemen referred to as 'motorcyclists'... ;) |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Izzy on 07/21/14 at 15:59:57 I'm in colorado springs. I'm almost to the point of just selling it and taking a loss. I haven't been able to find any sold info about the kickstand/clutch switches and I just don't have any motivation to fix it anymore really. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by humblegeo on 07/21/14 at 16:39:57 I would check the timing at this point. You did have problems with the cam chain and tensioner. Could it be slightly out of time now? I dont think you've got a carburetor issue, petcock issue or throttle cable issue. As long as the starter comes on when you push the start button then your clutch and kickstand interlocks are working unless they have been bypassed and then they dont matter anyway. Take a break from it for awhile. I know your frustrated. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Seaweednh on 07/21/14 at 18:00:07 I think changing the petcock would help. With the battery charger you are turning the engine faster creating more vacuum to deliver more fuel. The second advantage of the Raptor is it makes it so much easier to remove the tank for service. Now, I also agree with those who say to check the timing. I does sound typical of an engine firing too late. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by humblegeo on 07/21/14 at 18:44:28 Before you spend money on a petcock or waste anymore time with it, just do a real quick simple test. Pull the fuel line off at the carburetor and put it in a small bucket, put petcock in prime position and verify fuel is flowing in the bucket. If it is then there should be plenty of fuel getting to the carburetor to fill the carburetor bowl, at least in prime position. Keep it in prime and try and run the bike (you have probably already tried this) but atleast in prime you will know for a fact that your getting fuel. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Steve H on 07/22/14 at 03:41:21 The timing pickup is a crankshaft position sensor. Unless the valve timing got out really bad, you should be getting at least pops and sputters. If there's spartk, fuel, and at least some compression, you should see some signs of life. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Izzy on 09/18/14 at 16:01:50 Okay, so I'm pretty sure it's not the petcock. I don't see how it could be an issue since prime works fine. I have to empty the tank using the prime position everytime I take the tank off. I just did another carb clean and put a new gasket and float needle in. Didn't make any difference. So I guess my question now is does this sound electrical? If so, what would I do to test it? Also, some people have been saying they think it is the timing. Is this reasonable for how a bad timed bike sounds? |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Izzy on 11/04/14 at 14:16:22 Anything? |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by Dave on 11/04/14 at 14:59:14 Almost 6 months and 4 pages have gone by and the bike still won't run. You don't have enough experience to trouble shoot it on your own, and we can't seem to get a diagnosis over the forum that has solved it. Take it to a shop, and get it fixed. |
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Title: Re: Bike will not start and various other problems Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/04/14 at 23:19:59 Open the air cleaner,shoot some ether in, see if it starts worries |
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