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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> (SOLVED) 1998 engine knocking with throttle /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1395187435 Message started by wickedbiker on 03/18/14 at 17:03:55 |
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Title: (SOLVED) 1998 engine knocking with throttle Post by wickedbiker on 03/18/14 at 17:03:55 Hello again so if you don't know the story is I bougt a 2000 savage for $500 got it home and it was seized as in melted metal stuck in the spark plug and all in the engine. So I ordered a 1998 engine with 1,500 miles (according to the seller)for $530 on eBay and they shipped it the whole way upside down. A few top price were broken so I replaced them from the other blown engine. Like the valve check cover and one other thing. Anyway I started it right up no issues other than backfire. I did line up the valve timing and what not anyway to make a long story short there is an engine knock that happens when I give the bike throttle in the engine top end near the exhaust manifold. It is a definite knock. So I'm pretty worried. I had to sell my chopper because of money issues and really needed a bike and found this one and between the bike, the engine, parts, tools and getting it on the road it was a little over $1400 not to bad but I want it to last and would like to enjoy it. The knocking can be pretty faint and really comes and goes with throttle but again I want the bike to last |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by S-P on 03/18/14 at 17:07:02 How about a YouTube video of the sounds? |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by Yoshi on 03/18/14 at 17:20:49 yea, try to record a video as the valves sometimes tick a bit loud... BTW. Good luck with the bike! |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by wickedbiker on 03/18/14 at 18:43:08 I was thinking about doing that, I'll make one tomorrow |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by verslagen1 on 03/18/14 at 19:44:47 647A70787677717A787661130 wrote:
I think we need the long story. so hard to diagnose something you can't see. you timed it... so you had the cam chain off? what else did you do? |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by wickedbiker on 03/21/14 at 08:30:02 No I pulled the valve covers and lined up the marks true direct center or whatever. Anyway I notice when I up the idle a bit the knocking goes away and the bike runs great. I also read somewhere that these bikes are suppose to idle high so I think I have gotten it solved. But my battery went dead so I have a new one coming. I'll test my theory with a good test drive one it comes and check back with you. |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by verslagen1 on 03/21/14 at 08:51:20 check your charging voltage. if it wasn't charging, a weak battery will cause poor running. |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by S-P on 03/22/14 at 20:55:22 3D2329212F2E2823212F384A0 wrote:
I've discovered that a Savage is a noisy beast. I just checked the valves on my new 2007 with 2000 miles on it and they were dead on .005. I thought for sure they were clacking. The noises my former '86 motor made are pretty much the same as the ones I have now. Someone should post a video of "normal engine sounds" so us NOOBs won't freak out at the clatter and rattles of a big single. |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by shorty on 03/23/14 at 05:00:36 mine is very quiet, no mechanical noises coming from the engine.. just a slight ticking of the valves |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by oldNslow on 03/23/14 at 06:09:52 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yEc8Dsh374 Found this on youtube. My bike with 11,000 M sounds pretty much just like this one. ( stock exhaust) Never had a problem. I'm guessing that this is normal. |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by wickedbiker on 03/25/14 at 16:12:11 I bought some pretty inexpensive oil and I am starting to think that is my issue have you guys ever heard of Brad Penn V2 4-Stroke High Performance Motorcycle Oil "The Green Oil" ? I'm thinking I empty this cheap nuts out and get some Royal Purple and I bet that metal knocking stops..... Anyway here is a video although it really doesnt do much good but if you have normal bike like the one in the previous post and this one playing at the same time and you pause one you can really tell the difference mine sounds like it has old used up oil in it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GkDGitK96o&feature=youtu.be |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by Serowbot on 03/25/14 at 16:40:12 Hard to tell on the video, but I do think I hear what you mean... I only heard it, when the idle was set far too low... This could be a kind of pre-ignition knock, caused by the fire coming at the wrong time... Just don't run yer' idle that low... Any thumper will do that if you slow the idle that much... and then gas it... (You'll also get a similar problem noise if you lug the engine in too low of a gear)... Keep that idle up to a steady purr... (needed for head oil pressure too)... ...and no lugging... 5th gear at 50mph, 4th at 40, 3rd at 30...etc... Otherwise it sounds pretty good to me... Shell Rotella is cheap, good oil... available at most auto places and WallyMart.... by the gallon... synth or dino... |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by S-P on 03/25/14 at 17:19:52 5244534E56434E55210 wrote:
Yep, I watched the video too and it sounds pretty normal to me. I had a "Frankenstein" with a 1987 motor in a 2005 frame. It sounded pretty much like yours. I have a new 2007 with 2,000 miles and it sounds like the previous video posted by someone. As a new Savage owner with no other real recent 4 stroke bike experience (my last bike was a 2 stroke Yamaha road racer in 1971) I don't have a frame of reference, they just seem to be a noisy motor. On the video you said it had 15,000 miles but I thought you mentioned it had 1,500. If it has 15,000 I'd be sure to check out the cam chain tensioner before riding it seriously if you haven't already. I checked my '87 and it was JUST about ready to fall out and the previous owner said it had about 9K. Good luck with the project. Once you get it up and going you're going to love this bike! Hang in there! |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/25/14 at 18:49:06 PHHHT! Royal Purple,, save yer $$$, get some Rotella T, about $13.00 a gallon,, i9ts great oil |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by verslagen1 on 03/25/14 at 19:03:18 get a mechanics stethoscope, you don't hear it in there it's not a problem. |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by Dave on 03/26/14 at 05:36:23 Nothing wrong with Brad Penn oil.....provided it is not the reduced ZDDP oil they make for cars which I don't believe is colored green. Their High Performance oil is green and good oil made at the old Kendall refinery and it has ehough ZDDP. There is no reason to drain that out until it is worn out and ready for an oil change. Rotella T or T-6 is a good oil.....no reason to buy anything that costs more. |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by wickedbiker on 03/26/14 at 06:42:38 Thanks guys I guess I'm just a little paranoid, I dont want to lose this bike. I have been riding since I was 8. My first road legal cruiser was a 1995 savage that was back in 1998 I have had quite a few since and between the way it feels riding and that clanking it really just doesn't feel right. I don't really know how to check the rockers and clearance and I don't think I have the tools to measure it. Is there a thread here for that? I have the clymer but I'm kind of dumb so I didn't quite get it. Funny thing is I had a $1500 budget to buy a bike and I probably could have bought a good running bike, but when I found this one not only had I owned one before and loved it but it looked easy to work on (no syncing carbs and what not) so I figured I could learn to work on bikes with this one to start. Well.... I sure got my wish ;D Problem is I don't have unlimited money for it |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by oldNslow on 03/26/14 at 06:48:10 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1325991352 This link will take you to really good directions for valve adjustment. |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by wickedbiker on 03/26/14 at 06:53:31 7947464A5844452B0 wrote:
NO nuts! THANKS THATS GREAT! This place really is awesome |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by wickedbiker on 03/26/14 at 07:00:40 When I got to the second post and moved the flywheel to tdc there was no play in the rocker RMS at all the wouldn't budge. That's as far a pressing or pulling on them with my hand. The part at the end where it says start it up if you hear a noise you did the wrong end don't ride the bike I'm thinking that's the noise I'm getting and its too late as far as riding the bike I hope I didn't F it up |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by S-P on 03/26/14 at 07:34:36 5F414B434D4C4A41434D5A280 wrote:
Before you start loosening the rocker arm nuts, take your feeler guages and see what goes in. Start with the smallest (.0003) and work your way up. If the smallest won't go in, they're too tight, if anything larger than the .0005 goes in then they're too loose. Anything in between is within spec. Save yourself some trouble that way and you only do the ones that need it. ;) |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by oldNslow on 03/26/14 at 07:55:05 Quote:
Just because the timing marks are lined up does not mean you are at TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke. Put your fingers on the exhaust rocker arm and rotate the engine until the rocker arm gets loose. You should be able to wiggle it just a little bit. Keep turning until the marks are lined up and then try to wiggle the intake rocker. When both rocker arms are loose, and the marks line up, you are at TDC on the compression stroke and you can check the clearance. |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by Dave on 03/26/14 at 08:20:10 The crank rotates twice for each revolution of the cam. If you have the crankshaft marks lined up and the rockers won't wiggle.....take another full revolution the crank and then see if the rocker wiggle. If you watch the rockers while you turn you will see that on one revolution at the TDC marks....the exhaust rockers are closing while the intake rockers are opening - you want the other TDC where the rockers are not moving. |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/26/14 at 08:38:19 The nice thing IZZZ that When youre installing the cam chain youve got the left side TDC mark lined up ( hopefully) AND You lay the cam in, lumpy side down, SO, youre setting it at TDC compression. If ya go back & check later & land it on TDC exhaust, then the rockers will be holding the exhaust valves down. So, make sure youre at TDC compression.. OR, Roll the engine around until ya get all 4 valves closed & free up the rockers, THEN look & see if the mark is at TDC on the crank.. Pulling the plug makes this so much easier, remember, only turn it the way it turns when its running, |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by wickedbiker on 03/26/14 at 13:33:56 Thanks all of your posts have helped me to make a great deal more snese out of the opporation. Im going to go to harbor freight and pick up the feeler gauge and Im waiting on a fuel air screw and a good battery charger in the mail so I will take care of this Saturday so my old lady can entertain the rugrats. Ill get back on here Saturday or Sunday and let you guys know how it went. I really cant thank you all enough. I really am not sure id be at this point without your experience. |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/27/14 at 09:15:52 Phhht,, weve all been there.. I dare say the help here is better & faster than what is available at any dealership. |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by Dave on 03/27/14 at 09:55:12 This might sound a little off topic.....but if you start hearing strange and horrible noises coming from your engine.....try grabbing the headlight ring, speedometer ring and a few other parts that might vibrate. I was sure my valves and cam were self destructing and grinding each other away......then one day I reached up and grabbed my headlight and squeezed the trim ring (easy on a Cafe' conversion).....and the noise went away. Turns out my trim ring had become some kinda rattly noise maker. I took the ring off and put some rubber tape where the ring clips onto the bucket to provide some padding......and it ceased being a source of noise and was only a source of illumination from then on ;D. |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by wickedbiker on 03/28/14 at 12:24:12 417A7760717D66607B737E61120 wrote:
Not off topic at all man, I'll defiantly check that out if I ever get this battery charger in the mail funny how you can order something in the same state and it gets sent like its coming from half way around the world LOL! I'm sweaten it though mainly because this thing (The Engine) was shipped via fed ex from Pennsylvania to Florida and it was upside down the whole time when I got it one ot the lifter covers was crushed and the engine guard cover was broken. I had to use the ones from the old engine to repair it. The sound is like its hitting a lifter or the spark plug if thats even possible. I just hope there isnt any damage that isnt fixable. But I will listen for what you said because for the life of me I can't really pinpoint the noise and what you are suggesting makes perfect sense as a possibility |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by Dave on 03/28/14 at 18:00:03 You might also check that the decompression lever is going all the way down, and it not in contact with the rocker when the engine is running. |
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Title: Re: 1998 engine top end knocking only with throttl Post by wickedbiker on 03/30/14 at 16:16:38 Well I got the job done today the front side was loose and has a clearance way over .0005,.0006 and so on so I got that adjusted then the rear facing ones were tight with no play and I couldn't get the .0003 through at all they were shut tight so I adjusted those and they had play after words. Put on the covers , gas tank and whatnot And now I can't start the bike to test it out. In another thread I have I am looking for help with a problem I am having where I have a fully charged battery and the bike is acting like its dead. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1395762622 I thought I had resolved the issue but In guess not. :'( |
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Title: Re: (SOLVED) 1998 engine knocking with throttle Post by wickedbiker on 04/02/14 at 06:37:26 I want to thank you guys big time. I could not have done it without your help and that really awesome write up. I followed that thing on my tablet every step of the way.That was absolutely the issue. When I opened it up the exhaust side was way to loose and the carb side was closed tight. I'm really glad I checked it and adjusted it. When I got my battery today and started it up the sweet sound of perfect almost brand new engine sound was purring away. I am so friggin happy now man!!! I have been waiting a long time for this Now to pretty her up!! ;) |
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Title: Re: (SOLVED) 1998 engine knocking with throttle Post by S-P on 04/02/14 at 07:35:11 AWESOME!! Congratulations! |
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