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Message started by Oldfeller on 02/28/14 at 04:49:10

Title: Win XP dies April 8th
Post by Oldfeller on 02/28/14 at 04:49:10

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57619697-75/windows-8.1-update-said-to-arrive-when-xp-ends/

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57614101-92/intel-hp-prepare-for-the-end-of-days-windows-xps-that-is/

http://asset3.cbsistatic.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim2/2014/02/27/dell-windows-8-1-small.jpg

Well, they said they'd extended XP ..... but my memory says it was for a lot longer period. Now they claim they were just talking about XP embedded with that longer extension period. But that doesn't matter, Win XP support officially ends now on April the 8th now (unless they change their silly minds again).

Anyway, on April the 8th Microsoft will patch Win 8.1 with "the fix it patch" on Patch Tuesday and kill XP support on the same day.

You are supposed to run out and buy a new box immediately of course, and MS trusts you to be very loyal long term blood bowl donors and stick with the MS brand OS.

XP end of support is a rather big thing for folks our age as we have been using it for lo, over 13 years now and some of us have been on XP continuously since it came out.

To say we are not ready to jump over to touchy feel-ly land is an understatement.

======================

When the XP-like Linux Mint Mate LTS comes out that same month I will post a detailed how to install it (or provide a link to the same since lots of people put them up and there is always an official how to posted by the Mint folks).

You can dual boot your old machine for free and when XP bites the trojan or root kit or worm or virus that finally does it to it you will have somewhere to go to keep on going.

You are caught in the classical "rock and a hard spot" situation right now -- but with Mint Mate the hard spot is actually a pretty soft landing as there are enough of us on here to give you tips and how to's on Linux Mint.

This is the current graph that came out with the announcement ....
Look at that "Other" go !!

http://asset3.cbsistatic.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim2/2013/12/01/netmarketshare-xp-november.png

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

And here is the same graph I posted two weeks ago ....

http://images.techhive.com/images/article/2013/08/windows_market_shares-100048534-orig.jpg

Also please note that in two weeks time since I first posted this pie chart that "Other" has more than doubled in size again to right at 5% and Windows 7 went up nearly 2% just about matching the reported decline in the XP slice.

Only 1% went to Win 8.

;)

"Other" is now bigger than Windows Vista or any of the Apple desktop OSs.

I wonder how big "other" will get before they have to give it a real name?

Title: Re: Win XP dies April 8th
Post by Oldfeller on 02/28/14 at 05:18:49

What do you plan to do when XP finally dies on you?

I thought I would ask the group mind in case somebody has an even better suggestion.

I have always said that "the list" as a whole is a dam_n smart mechanic and together as a group we have fixed every issue that was ever found with the Savage motorcycle.

Bet the same thinking works with the PCs we use to do our posting.

=======================

Here is a British Windows enthusiast magazine's take on the April 8th announcement ..... and what will happen shortly thereafter.

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/windows/3501239/what-should-xp-users-do-when-microsoft-ends-support/

Note he says his Brit buds over there are planning some sort of concentrated & coordinated attack on XP and he gives a 60+% odds of a terminal attack being launched very quickly after MS support ends.

You will also note he NEVER says the word "other" or Linux or Chromebook/box or any other non-MS alternative at all whatsoever during the entire article.

How much do these guys get paid in MS advertising dollars to be so totally unilateral in what they report as "suggestions"?

And he's really pushing that Fear Uncertainty and Death angle (FUD) for MS right smartly, ain't he.

;)

"It's possible that there are individuals holding back exploits they have already found so they can unleash them after Microsoft has stopped producing updates – in effect ensuring these yet-to-be-exploited vulnerabilities never become fixed. Thus, similar to continued use of IE6 in the enterprise space, Windows XP will be more vulnerable than newer versions to potential attack.

Indeed, Microsoft has helpfully given its own take on this. It says that XP infections will rise 66 percent after April 8. But then again, it would."

:D

PS read the posted replies down below the article, the author gets his butt ripped for being a stupid MS shill and he actually REPLIES and the fooble cranks up for real ... but all the real alternatives DO come out and are discussed.

And I just read it just now, I am not any of the various "Americans" who did some serious Brit butt ripping down in the comments.

But I do find it funny .... :D

Title: Re: Win XP dies April 8th
Post by Oldfeller on 02/28/14 at 07:45:13

Being curious, I checked into the idea of bugs being actually coordinated and "saved up" and I got flabbergasted by the fact hackers are actually getting PAID by criminals to write attack softwares.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9241585/XP_s_retirement_will_be_hacker_heaven

The factual gist is that for "dead software support" MS charges the company involved $50,000 to $150,000 per incident to fix it, whatever it is.

Now, my next question is this, Who pays the criminals to pay the hackers to write the attacks so MS can sell those $50,000 to $150,000 bug fixes?

Do the criminals pay the hackers to write the fixes at the same time they design the attacks?

(gotta know how it really actually worked to fix it all quick-like, now don't you?)

>:( :-/ :P

gack -- this whole thing smells totally corrupt and maggot ridden to me now.

Title: Re: Win XP dies April 8th
Post by Oldfeller on 02/28/14 at 09:24:01

Prediction time: When "other" goes past Win 8 then Microsoft does a rapid re-think and either extends XP's life yet again or comes out with a Win 8 deal for older machines.

(right now XP low price upgrades ..... to NOTHING).

Title: Re: Win XP dies April 8th
Post by rl153 on 02/28/14 at 15:33:03

OF, isn't it possible that your XP computer can run indefinately, if you don't pick up a virus? I have XP.

Title: Re: Win XP dies April 8th
Post by Oldfeller on 02/28/14 at 15:54:03

I've a counter question for you .... how many worms/trojans/rootkits/viruses/exploits have you been hit with in the last 2 years?

Average it out by 24 months to a mean monthly time time between failures and apply it starting April 8th as that represents YOUR mileage or YOUR machine in YOUR conditions.

Putting a backup OS on your machine is simple free "good assurance" because when it goes down this time it might not be coming back -- MS used to clean up your machine every month on update Tuesday and replaced all the files that might have been corrupted by the evil of the week club.

That isn't happening any more after April 8th, not unless you arrange to pay MS to do it (they will take your money if you are a big company, BTW).

And remember, MS wants your XP machine to fail so you will run out and buy a new one so they can make another buck off of you.

===============

People who load Linux Mint or Ubuntu can simply reboot to that and keep on trucking .....

Title: Re: Win XP dies April 8th
Post by Serowbot on 02/28/14 at 16:45:33

If MS ever loses it's 1st place position... hackers will jump on to the next reining OS...

Practically every Android app out there is a Trojan, gathering personal info to be sold...

Title: Re: Win XP dies April 8th
Post by rl153 on 02/28/14 at 16:52:34

I didn't realize MS was cleaning up my computer with updates.I have a website checker in my browser ,and it seems to keep me from going to places where I get in trouble. Also antivirus. I'm curious tho, if I have to reformat ,will service pack three be unavailable?. thanks!

Title: Re: Win XP dies April 8th
Post by rl153 on 02/28/14 at 16:55:07

I wouldn't be opposed to a backup OS, but I might mess things up installing it.

Title: Re: Win XP dies April 8th
Post by Oldfeller on 02/28/14 at 18:34:58

Yep, every week your MS forced update package included all the key OS files that would have been affected by the bug of the week, they replaced them all fresh by rote just to make sure your machine would keep on running instead of limping along and dying on you.

Your entire Windows got replaced several times piecemeal that way -- it also makes sure the hard drive magnetic traces stayed strong too.

================

As far as messing up your hard drive by repartitioning it, very rare but yes theoretically it can happen.

================

Ever back your stuff up? Keeping a rigorous backup schedule would help if you are just going to continue to run XP by itself.

That way, when it gets eaten you just plop down your backup -- this works good until your backup gets infected, then you go back to being MS dog bait again.

Me, I keep my data in a directory that I move to a jump drive every few months and date stamp it.

I keep a copy of my Firefox preferences and bookmarks on the same jump drive.

I haven't had to do it, but with Linux Mint Mate it wouldn't take me 20 minutes from a fresh hard drive to totally back and working perfect again just using the install dvd again.

Title: Re: Win XP dies April 8th
Post by Oldfeller on 02/28/14 at 19:46:07

What's what in the purty little pie charts? x86 processors only, apparently.

Well, if you even have a windows boot sector at all, then your are counted as a Windows user.
Dual boot folks don't get counted except once as Windows users.

Chromebooks and boxes get counted as Android, apparently and are not in this chart at all.

T'ain't much good, but it is better than nothing, apparently. Linux is down 7th in the pile, only one Mac OS yet to go
and it will get Vista about the same point in time it takes out the rest of the Mac OS groups.

Is it double pumping the Win 8 and Win 8.1 and Win 8.1.1 and Win 8.1.2 nonsense ??

Windows 7 47.46%
Windows XP 29.30%
Windows 8 6.62%
Windows 8.1 3.94%
Windows Vista 3.30%
Mac OS X 10.9 3.19%
Linux 1.59%
Mac OS X 10.8 1.47%
Mac OS X 10.6 1.43%
Mac OS X 10.7 1.19%
Mac OS X 10.5 0.29%
Windows NT 0.07%
Mac OS X 10.4 0.07%
Windows 2000 0.03%
Mac OS X 0.01%
Windows 98 0.00%

Title: Re: Win XP dies April 8th
Post by Yonuh Adisi FSO on 02/28/14 at 22:04:31

Apparently I got my updated laptop just in time. It isn't new but it is better than dino-laptop which I have been using. This one is running Vista and dino-laptop is running XP. I think I will get a linux OS and put it on Dino-laptop and use it to learn linux.

Looking forward to your how-to posts on the Mint Mate.

Title: Re: Win XP dies April 8th
Post by Oldfeller on 03/01/14 at 03:07:53

Hate to tell you this, but XP was extended A LOT because MS totally reissued it to handle the netbook wave and they had to support it from then like it was a newly issued OS. XP would have died 6 years ago otherwise.

The follow on OS, Vista, "died" the first time in 2012, but MS continued to put out occasional fix it packages, thinking rightly as long as they were supporting XP they felt folks wouldn't understand them dumping the follow on OS.

I think they both will die on April 8th this year for real, finally, as MS is going to lose the business groups associated with them.

(more silent layoffs).

XP will continue to run, and it is conceivable that a good anti-virus company such as Trend or Malwarebytes could put out a comprehensive fix for a virus such as what MS put out in the day.

Problem is they can't ship you a chunk of OS files to you to replace what might have been damaged. You'd have to get them off a CD.

And how many of us have working CDs for our OS any more, anyway?

Zero .... MS arranged for that when they shipped the retail CDs with death dates built into them.

Title: Re: Win XP dies April 8th
Post by Oldfeller on 03/01/14 at 03:22:18

545D4E51565D090A0101380 wrote:

When you install Linux you do not reformat your Windows drive. You do not lose anything, it is still sitting there the whole time, untouched.

Much of what happens during a Mint install is automatic and all you have to do up front is to defragment your windows drive (defragmenters tend to put everything in order and pack everything to the front of the hard drive).

Linux only requires about 20 gigs of continuous space for a standard install. This is room enough for the OS and lots of stored stuff that you create later on by adding programs, etc. Most of you have more space than this available on your hard drive.

Remember, Linux is TINY compared to the fat bloated stuff that is Windows ..... it is coded in a tighter language and the code has been trimmed and refined over the years to run quicker and better. Linux is NOT bloat-ware.

Title: Re: Win XP dies April 8th
Post by Steve H on 03/01/14 at 05:08:05

Another problem that will be seen with the demise of XP is that some future software won't be supported on XP anymore.

Anti-virus makers will eventually go with the new routines for doing things and XP will be dropped as a supported OS. Once the AV guys stop supporting, it will really be a dead OS. It will still work, no problem. It will be subject to getting any new bug out there and a very quickly dimishing list of programs that will run on it.

My XP CD still works just fine. I have never allowed MS's weekly blast of crap. Never run their "anti-virus/malware" software. Installed only updates that I needed after they have been tested and proven not to cause a problem.

If Windows wasn't the target for almost every nasty piece of programming out there, all this forced upgrading would never have caught on to start with. Release good, tight, well checked code and you don't have near the problems that Windows does from the beginning.

That's one of the great things about Linux. Hundreds or possibly thousands of eyes are pouring over the source all the time. If a problem is found, a report is submitted and the problem is fixed. The folks writing it take pride in their contributions and want the OS to be the best it can be. Many of them are doing the coding for free. All they get out of it is knowing they helped and maybe a recognition line somewhere in a contributors list. Many commercial operations release code into the FOSS system for varying reasons. It usually is something they have done for themselves and feel that it may benefit someone else. You sure don't see this kind of support in the Windows or MAC OS world.

It will be sort of sad to see XP go but it is becoming more dated all the time. Many new technologies have come out since XP. Updates, patches, drivers, and in some cases not supporting XP have all been done to make these technologies work, in some cases not fully supported, on XP.

We need something good, lightweight, secure, functional, easy to use to replace XP and sadly, for them, Microsoft isn't providing so they will lose out. It's time they learned that no matter how big you get, your customer is ultimately the person who gives you your paycheck. You don't make what the customer wants...his dollars go elsewhere.

I am really enjoying reading all these posts about what's happening in the computer world. Since I got out of the business, I don't keep up with nearly as much anymore.

Title: Re: Win XP dies April 8th
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/01/14 at 07:48:57

Driving around shooting paintballs or tossin eggs takes time & costs a little $$$, but idiots do it & call it fun, wrecking other peoples cars or houses,, but who is it that sits down to write code that causes pain in the lives of unseen, unknown & countless others? Ive long suspected the antivirus people of creating the problems they sell the answers to. I have a hard time believing MS would pay someone to make MS look as vulnerable as it has proven itself to be. What better way to drive people to use "other"? Tho, I also believe MS & EVERY manufacturer creates back doors.. Because I believe the goobs require it, I dont believe anyone can produce a secure ANYthing.. NOt X-box, not a DVR, nothing that can be snooped can be made UNsnoopable, by decree,, even if the technology to make it secure exists, INsecurity is designed in,

Remember the Superbowl when some gal had a "wardrobe malfunction"?
In the days following stats were given on the news telling how many people backed up their DVR to watch it again,, & again, & again,,
How did they KNOW how many people did that?

Title: Re: Win XP dies April 8th
Post by Oldfeller on 03/02/14 at 04:40:38

Nobody said MS was paying criminals to pay hackers to write these paid attacks.

What was said was that criminals ARE PAYING hackers to write attacks.

The "who pays the criminals to pay the hackers" was left as an open question.

Cops would say "Follow the money" and they would be right in that approach.

http://www.opswat.com/about/media/reports/antivirus-august-2013

This is the current year's report on who could benefit financially from the writing of paid hacker viruses.

Be sure to make the distinction between those who always get paid by customers and those who provides the fixes for free.

Security Essentials may be big, but MS provides it for free ....

Consider the SHEER SIZE of the anti-virus industry. It is huge.

"According to Gartner, the security software market grew from $7.5 billion in 2005 to an estimated $16.4 billion in 2010".

There is a lot of coin to be made from MS's poor programming habits that IS their stinking OS system. So much money that somebody figured out they could prime the pump occasionally to keep the milk flowing.

"Computer viruses used to be the domain of digital mischief makers. But in the mid-2000s, when criminals discovered that malicious software could be profitable, the number of new viruses began to grow exponentially."

MS does have a very large corporate business serving whatever needs the corporation has, and that includes fixing attacks and damages done to the customer's systems. They do get paid BIG BUCKS to do so.

However, for people's personal computers, MS gives Security Essentials away for free. It doesn't stop much, so when you need your machine flushed you still have to go to a pay-me company to get the real fixes.

Point made on several articles was that when XP dies then the AV people are going to have a license to print money off of it.

And all the criminal hackers are saving up their best new nasties so as to get top dollar for them when MS's support ends and you are have to pay out the nose to stay running.

===========================

Contrast Linux please,

Exploits are hard to find because the code is tight and very well written. Once exposed, a vulnerability is patched in a day or so and the source code in the kernel gets fixed and released with the next scheduled release.

MS patched XP for 13 years and it is still septic with bugs and exploits.

Linux is so well written that the actual viruses can be easily counted (and a record kept) of every exploit that has ever been found.

And here is the entire Linux list of malwares ....

http://www.unixmen.com/meet-linux-viruses/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_malware#Viruses

Note: many of these malwares were written to attack Windows machines but can be carried by any computer system -- so they are by default also listed as Linux viruses. Since the net runs on Linux these sorts of "carrier only" viruses are a legitimate concern for the Linux folks.

Title: Re: Win XP dies April 8th
Post by Oldfeller on 03/03/14 at 09:33:04

What is MS offering you to replace your XP machine with?

In a desktop, nothing --- no plans to offer any special OS upgrade deals either. Old XP class machines can't run Win 8 effectively anyway, no touch feely screen and most XP class machines are far too slow to run the bulky Win 8.0 OS and don't have the systems memory to do Win 8.0 anyway.

However, there maybe possibly is a way to upgrade your OS and get a free copy of Office for a $200 total price tag which you might be able to move to another device later on (assuming MS lets you actually do that when the time comes).

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/miix-2-8-32gb/2341001.p?ref=199&loc=TnL5HPStwNw&siteID=TnL5HPStwNw-ustInGaICWyFXp9eASF6Wg $100 off subsidized deal

http://pisces.bbystatic.com/image2/BestBuy_US/images/products/2341/2341001_sa.jpg;canvasHeight=500;canvasWidth=500

This is an 8" tablet with a quad core Bay Trail processor, 32 gigs of system storage memory running full Win 8.0 and containing Microsoft Office. It actually has a lot more processing power than your old XP box ever did.

But it is a tablet. :(

But that is what MS sees as being a competitive product to the old XP product now days.

Rest assured that at $200 you are getting the full Intel Bay Trail loss leader pricing and a free copy of Win 8.0 as it is a "under $250" Windows device and is entitled to both company's low price leader full price cuts.

Just don't expect any ARM like run time off the battery system unless you let the energy nanny chipset on the motherboard choke the processor down to some sub ARM performance levels.

;)

Title: Re: Win XP dies April 8th
Post by Cloudy on 03/03/14 at 15:16:49

My issue with using Ubuntu or something similar is that some programs just won't run on it. I know you can fool it to make it think its running on a windows OS but that won't always work. I know about the only piece of software i us for actual work just does not run on anything but windows. :-[

Title: Re: Win XP dies April 8th
Post by Oldfeller on 03/03/14 at 17:12:06

What piece of software is that?

Title: Re: Win XP dies April 8th
Post by Cloudy on 03/04/14 at 00:30:25

Its called MINDA, a farm animal management program put out by LIC (Live stock Improvement Corp) in NZ