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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> 80 mph in 3rd gear on a S-40 ? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1392942945 Message started by MMRanch on 02/20/14 at 16:35:44 |
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Title: 80 mph in 3rd gear on a S-40 ? Post by MMRanch on 02/20/14 at 16:35:44 I just finished up the pulley conversion on my S-40 and went for a ride ! I put the Kawasaki 454 front and Kawasaki 750 belt pulley on the rear. No time for pictures yet , I got back after dark. So I had the factory speedometer and a GPS (Garmin) to go by. After ridding around a bit I pulled into a main hwy and opened it up in third ... The GPS was on 80 before I shifted to 4th , it was still pulling but had a lot more RPM's than I like. ::) The percentage conversion between GPS and Speedometer is 50mph on speedometer and 62mph on the GPS ... 24% overdrive. So I headed for the big hill going toward the next town over. I used to have a S-10 chevy pickup with the 2.5L engine and it would top the hill at 45mph no matter how fast I hit the bottom of it. Well the S-40 stock engine with 150 main jet and the 24% overdrive still gains speed going up the same said hill. I just maintained my 62mph but had plenty of power left over. I'm looking forward to an interestate ride next time. :) |
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Title: Re: 80 mph in 3rd gear on a S-40 ? Post by pgambr on 02/20/14 at 17:00:19 I'm curious to hear how 4th & 5th gears work. Please let us know, thanks for posting. |
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Title: Re: 80 mph in 3rd gear on a S-40 ? Post by Dave on 02/20/14 at 18:13:58 I finished up my pulley conversion just before winter set in, and I only went for a 10 miles ride with it before the bike came apart to be painted. I was turning 3,300 rpm at 60 mph in 5th gear. It will be great for cruising. I am expecting the top mph gear to now be 4th, and the cruising around on the highway gear to be 5th. |
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Title: Re: 80 mph in 3rd gear on a S-40 ? Post by jcstokes on 02/20/14 at 19:26:16 Very interesting, sounds like a worthwhile mod, keep reporting. Stock bike is about 4000 rpm at 100 kmph or about 62 mph. Let us know how you get on passing rigs and things |
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Title: Re: 80 mph in 3rd gear on a S-40 ? Post by Dave on 02/21/14 at 09:43:31 Let me start by saying that MMRanch gets the credit for teaching me about the use of the Kawasaki Pulleys.......I just got to my camera faster! Here are a few photos to show what goes on. The stock LS650 pulley is 23 tooth (black in photo), the Kawasaki EN454 pulley is 25 tooth (silver). As you can see in the photo, the silver pulley has extra material at the center on both sides, and this has to be machined off in order for the Kawasaki pulley to work on the Savage. I had a machine shop use a carbide cutter in a milling machine, some have used a lathe.....this stuff is really hard and is tough to cut. http://i60.tinypic.com/2hs45tx.jpg http://i61.tinypic.com/nc0578.jpg Additionally there are some space issues on the engine block that have to be addressed. One of the mounting tabs for the pulley cover has to be trimmed. http://i57.tinypic.com/14kgrid.jpg And a hex head bolt has to be removed and replaced with a flatter screw head. http://i61.tinypic.com/2namekj.jpg And a small amount of material has to be removed from the pulley cover. http://i60.tinypic.com/10p60cn.jpg I was able to reduce the amount of material that needed to be removed by flattening the tabs on the Kawasaki pulley a bit. I used a flat punch and a hammer. http://i57.tinypic.com/2n06fra.jpg http://i58.tinypic.com/68em48.jpg http://i62.tinypic.com/120hwjp.jpg This front pulley modification can be used with the stock rear pulley, as long as you don't have a real tall rear tire or an 18" rear wheel conversion. The change from 23 teeth to 25 teeth is a 8.7% increase, so 60 mph rpms would drop about 320 rpm. |
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Title: Re: 80 mph in 3rd gear on a S-40 ? Post by Dave on 02/21/14 at 10:04:23 The rear pulley conversion to the Kawasaki KZ750 cannot be used alone and has to be used with the 25 tooth front pulley. The belt is too long to long if you only use the rear pulley. http://i58.tinypic.com/28miseo.jpg The Kawasaki pulley has the wrong diameter bolt circle, and the center hole is too big to center on the pulley hub. The stock pulley is 68 tooth, and the Kawasaki pulley is 65 tooth. This change with the front and rear pulley setup makes a 548 rpm drop from 4,000 to about 3,452 rpm at 60 mph. On my bike with an 18" rear wheel I am turning 3,300 rpm at 60 mph. http://i57.tinypic.com/2ia4kfp.jpg I first made a spacer to slip onto the pulley hub so I could center the pulley to drill the new holes in the pulley that matched the Suzuki spacing. This photo shows the spacer before it was pushed down onto the hub. I then used a Hole Center punch through the wheel pulley hub to mark the location of the holes I needed to drill. http://i58.tinypic.com/2hs985y.jpg http://i60.tinypic.com/ff4ccw.jpg Then I had to cut off 0.107" of the face to allow the front pulley and rear pulley to align correctly. This measurement could vary with however your front pulley is machined, and is best measured by mounting the rear pulley and putting a straight edge along the outiside edge of the pulley. http://i62.tinypic.com/2ev56vd.jpg Before you mount the pulley on the bike, the rear shock bolt needs to be trimmed to clear the pulley. I trimmed some of the hex off and left enough to grab with a wrench. http://i58.tinypic.com/bhgm77.jpg http://i57.tinypic.com/2qxuiid.jpg This is what what it looks like mounted. The axle is set waaay back in the adjustment travel. I had to use a couple of washers under the pulley nuts, as the threads did not go deep enough for the nuts to go down and tighten the pulley to the hub. http://i62.tinypic.com/14n1biq.jpg |
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Title: Re: 80 mph in 3rd gear on a S-40 ? Post by Dave on 02/21/14 at 10:16:22 Is the chain coversion easier? Yes....on a stock bike it is. But a lot of us like the belt as it is clean and needs little care. On a RYCA or Cafe Conversion or a stock bike with longer shocks .....it is not easier. The chain uses smaller diameter sprocket, and with the longer shocks the chain hits the swing arm. If you have rear set peg mounts.....the peg mounts have to be clearanced to allow the use of a chain. |
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Title: Re: 80 mph in 3rd gear on a S-40 ? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/21/14 at 10:24:10 Nice job clearancing & adjusting stuff to fit.. YOu can go into a detailed report on the lathe,, & any other stylin stuff ya have that would make me jealous.. |
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Title: Re: 80 mph in 3rd gear on a S-40 ? Post by Dave on 02/21/14 at 10:51:20 3C2325223F3809390931232F64560 wrote:
Oooh, I love my lathe, and my bandsaw.....and tools! I don't hunt or fish, or go to any organized sporting events. I hide out in my garage and make stuff! ;D |
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Title: Re: 80 mph in 3rd gear on a S-40 ? Post by ToesNose on 02/22/14 at 05:37:45 Great walkthrough Dave, thanks to MM for getting him rolling =D |
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Title: Re: 80 mph in 3rd gear on a S-40 ? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/22/14 at 10:22:51 MMMMM,, Bandsaw,, ( Homers voice, dreaming of a donut) & a drill press! Ive used a drill press as a lathe of sorts, stacking washers on a bolt & spinning them up & working a grinder on them to bring the OD down to fit right under the clutch springs. And, somewhere theres a series of pics in photobucket of a repair job on a Honda Civic air register, where I used it like a mill to make a coupla parts out of a gray mop bucket, Im waiting on a trip to OKlahoma,, theres an early 70's, hardly used Sears drill press up there a buddy is gonna let me have for cheap.. I expect it comes with a travelling vise ( XY axis) & a solid vise,, Im no great machinist, but if I had a lathe I think I could use it, occasionally. You use the replaceable tools or sharpen the carbide tips? That takes some learing, getting the edges shaped right, proper relief.. kinda like free hand sharpening drill bits, which I can do.. THATS something I got from working in a machine shop, very good to know.. but dang those 14" & smaller bits,, theyre heck to sharpen,, |
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Title: Re: 80 mph in 3rd gear on a S-40 ? Post by Dave on 02/23/14 at 17:29:20 Well, if ya'll know me yet, the idea of stacking up two washers to take up the extra room on the bolts was not making me feel really good about the project......and the original holes in the pulley hub didn't look all that great either. So with an opportunity to use my drill press and lathe.......I got busy yesterday and made an aluminum piece to replace the washers and cover up the extra holes. ;D http://i58.tinypic.com/11ral1u.jpg |
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Title: Re: 80 mph in 3rd gear on a S-40 ? Post by MMRanch on 02/23/14 at 21:00:01 Dave That plate to cover the holes is Great ! You sure do a good job with the pictures ... I just kinda stuck mine on , compaired to the way you fixed yours. I used a 4" angle grinder against the front pulley spinning in the lath and only cut-down one side of it (Kawasaki rear side). Then put it on with cut side out , and used thread lock on the nut instead of a keeper. The rear didn't get off-set any and the bolt-head that was in the way got replaced with a flat head 1/2" bolt with an allen head. Its working fine but doin't look anywhere near as good as your setup. I did have to do some "Warpping" on the chain guard to keep it from rubbing (side-by-side comparison would show the difference) ... the belt runs about 1/8" to the outside compaired to factory . I though the Kawasaki rear was 64 teeth ? Good job with the thread ! :) |
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Title: Re: 80 mph in 3rd gear on a S-40 ? Post by pgambr on 02/23/14 at 21:09:20 Great work. I admire your abilities to do quality custom work. I'd like to do something similar to my KLR because they make replacement front sprockets. If I add 1 tooth to the front sprocket would that be the equivalent to decreasing the cruising speed by 400 rpm? Thanks. |
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Title: Re: 80 mph in 3rd gear on a S-40 ? Post by jcstokes on 02/24/14 at 00:11:29 This serious stuff and is probably more important than a lot of the tuning and exhaust stuff spoken about on this forum. Sadly I don't have the gear or skills to do it. I wish someone would tell Suzuki about it, but sadly they probably wouldn't believe or care about you. |
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Title: Re: 80 mph in 3rd gear on a S-40 ? Post by MMRanch on 02/24/14 at 20:49:32 Pgambr I'd like to do something similar to my KLR because they make replacement front sprockets. If I add 1 tooth to the front sprocket would that be the equivalent to decreasing the cruising speed by 400 rpm? Thanks. Add all you can to the front , you never ride off road anyway do ya ? ;) (new front sprocket/rear sprocket ) divided by (old Front sprocket / rear sprocket) = percent of RPM left at a givin speed. Percent is the key work here. :) |
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Title: Re: 80 mph in 3rd gear on a S-40 ? Post by pgambr on 02/25/14 at 11:21:53 Thanks MM, I ordered the biggest one available. I should be able to do 70 at 4200 rpm. Not bad ;) |
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Title: Re: 80 mph in 3rd gear on a S-40 ? Post by Dane Allen on 02/26/14 at 13:19:27 I do 55 miles of daily communting on the freeway, is doing just the front pulley mod a good fit for that? What about fuel economy with the new pulley? (such as it is with a 2.9 gallon tank.) |
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Title: Re: 80 mph in 3rd gear on a S-40 ? Post by Dave on 02/27/14 at 05:29:41 0B2E212A0E23232A214F0 wrote:
Doing the front pulley alone is a start.....is drops the rpm about 320. It does move the rear axle forward and if you have an oversize rear tire it might hit the swing arm. If you can move the rear axle all the way forward and still have clearance at the front of the tire - you will be fine. MMRanch can comment about how big of rear tire you can use with the front pulley conversion. |
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Title: Re: 80 mph in 3rd gear on a S-40 ? Post by MMRanch on 02/28/14 at 22:20:44 MMRanch can comment about how big of rear tire you can use with the front pulley conversion I have a 140/90-15 comander II along with the front pulley and ended-up with about 10% speedometer error in the right direction ! :) Now I also added the rear pulley and the speedometer error has gone to 20% ... 51 mph on factory speedometer = 60 mph on the Garmin GPS speed indicator. I stay in 4th gear till I get in a 55mph zone now , It sure is sweet having 60 mph where 50 used to be . There is no shortage of power to climb hills with either but passing works better with a downshift to 4th. (but 4th is higher than 5th used to be, so its OK ! ) |
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Title: Re: 80 mph in 3rd gear on a S-40 ? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/01/14 at 09:02:56 Just putting the taller rear tire on saves a few RPM.. but if your riding the slab more than not AND you wont cry about increasing the 0-60 time some, then do both pulleys. Thats IF you can do the math. IF the goal is to save $$$ on gas, then do the math. How much gas will you save in a year? How many years do you think youll have the bike? How much will doin the mod cost? Is gas the only consideration? Will the bike be "happier" ? Will the feedback it gives be more comfortable for you? Cant put a dollar figure on Buzzing in the pegs,, you have to decide the value of the projected difference youll feel. |
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Title: Re: 80 mph in 3rd gear on a S-40 ? Post by Serowbot on 03/01/14 at 09:34:00 I'd really like a taller top gear,.. but, when I tried the Kawa front pulley, I found that I didn't like the bottom 4 gear spacing as well... (I do a lot of city, and mountain twisty riding, and I like having 3 gear options for most any speed,.. the taller set limited gear choice)... Good for highway... not for twisties... :-?... |
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Title: Re: 80 mph in 3rd gear on a S-40 ? Post by pgambr on 03/11/14 at 18:34:42 On my KLR I added one tooth to the front sprocket and it dropped the rpm by 400 in 5th gear. I may add one more; although it was a pretty significant difference. 5th will now do 70 at 4,600 rpm and it will probably top off at 95 + mph. I don't have any desire to go that fast, but it is nice to know you have it. :) |
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