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Message started by hangsout on 02/20/14 at 13:42:29

Title: Self starter drained battery...
Post by hangsout on 02/20/14 at 13:42:29

Hi savages. I'm a new member and am just starting what will probably be a long list of questions. So here we go with some background info.... 86 650. New to me. 18,000 km. Po said it was running last summer but it came with a 2001 license plate on it. No battery. I hooked up a spare battery via boostercables. The bike started turning over on its own. I disconnected the battery pos. Pos wire very warm. Starter very warm. Tried again. Smoke from pos booster clamp. Disconnected again. Hmmm. I think I have an electrical problem. :'( . So I went and bought a multi meter for testing purposes. Problem is, electrical is not my forte... I have no idea where to start. I did a search for starting troubleshooting but got no hits. Long post short, can some one point me in the right direction to start testing? Or direct me to a troubleshooting walkthrough? Any help is appreciated. Oh, and after reading over 100 pages on rsd I gotta say this is a very informative site with lots of helpful ppl. Love it. Thanks...

Title: Re: Self starter drained battery...
Post by verslagen1 on 02/20/14 at 14:04:17

can be either of 2 things... stuck starter relay or bad decomp controller.

starters going to be warm cause of auto start, don't try again till it's cool.

give the fender a sharp wrap just under the ig switch to unstick the relay.

Title: Re: Self starter drained battery...
Post by hangsout on 02/20/14 at 14:11:00

Okay I will try beating the relay. I should add that my seat is already off and my relay is unbolted from the fender by po. Does it need to be attached, grounded to work?

Title: Re: Self starter drained battery...
Post by verslagen1 on 02/20/14 at 14:33:20

You'll have to check, but I believe one of the small wires is ground (black w/wht trace usually)

check 1 small wire is powered all the time, then for sure bad decomp controller.

couple of guys have had the problem where the starter would start up by itself in the middle of the night.

decomp controller had filled up with water and corroded in a couple of spots.

Title: Re: Self starter drained battery...
Post by hangsout on 02/20/14 at 14:47:44

Thanks for the quick replys Okay so.... I beat the relay and then hooked up power. Now all lights came on. Switched key on. Pulled clutch hit starter and high speed clicking from relay. No smoke no heat. Battery is back on charger (battery tender). Battery went from 12.3 v to 11.3 v when disconnected. I will wait for another full charge and try again. Is there instructions on the tech page for testing the decompression solenoid? Thanks again.

Title: Re: Self starter drained battery...
Post by verslagen1 on 02/20/14 at 15:03:14

I don't think so.
normal operation is decomp on for 1/2 second, and starter on before decomp clicks off.

BTW...
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1288911670

Title: Re: Self starter drained battery...
Post by hangsout on 02/20/14 at 15:36:16

Thanks for the link. I'm sure I could hear the decomp clicking lightly each time I hit the starter button. I think if I get a good charge on my battery things may happen. We will see...

Title: Re: Self starter drained battery...
Post by Oldfeller on 02/21/14 at 08:28:38

797E6B646F6B6D666F790A0 wrote:

OK, you need some more info about batteries.

A battery tender WILL NOT FULLY CHARGE YOUR BATTERY from a below a 12.5 volt state.

You need to go acquire a no more than 2 amp real battery charger.

You need to fully charge the battery for no less than six hours (and no more than 8) such that it maintains 12.5 volts when measured 2 hours after you disconnect the real battery charger.

If your battery will not maintain over 12 volts it is likely a bad battery. 11.3 is really bad -- that 11.3 volt battery cannot crank the bike over and maintain enough voltage to fire the black box (make a spark at the spark plug). Whacky thing is it can still turn the bike over .... (known issue).

Get back to us when you have a known good fully charged over 12.5 volt battery.

==============================

Next item, how old is the gasoline in your gas tank?

Title: Re: Self starter drained battery...
Post by hangsout on 02/21/14 at 08:44:15

Thanks OF. Yes I am aware that the tender is not a proper charger. It's been on all night and is now sitting at 13.1v with the tender disconnected. I will be picking up a proper charger today from my buddy. My intent was to see if I could get thebike to turn over. I'm sure the relay was stuck. After smacking it a few times and thenhooking up power, the lights came on but I feel the battery was too low to do much more than click click click from the relay. I'm just about to go out and try again and see what's what. Gas has been drained from tank and carb and will be replaced with a gallon or so of fresh before I try to actually start the motor.

Title: Re: Self starter drained battery...
Post by Oldfeller on 02/21/14 at 08:59:58

I wouldn't hook that battery tender back up to anything if it is outputting way up at 13.1 volts.

"Battery tenders" are odd critters, they attempt to hold the battery's charge at 12.0 to 12.2 volts simply to maintain the battery's chemistry at the very best level to keep sulfides from forming.

There are some hybrid chargers out there that are somewhat computerized. They follow a charge cycle which is CHARGE until a certain battery voltage is reached, then they kick down into trickle mode.

What battery charger do you currently have?

Title: Re: Self starter drained battery...
Post by hangsout on 02/21/14 at 09:17:10

OF.... So the unit is a Deltran battery tender junior. It came with my vstar so I don't know much about it. Without it hooked up my battery reads 13.12v. Withit hooked up my battery reads about 14.5v. It says output 12v at 750 Ma

Title: Re: Self starter drained battery...
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/21/14 at 09:59:15

It should be shutting off once the battery reaches that kind of voltage, It sure shouldnt be jacking it up into the 14 range. Id check the output of just the charger, just for fun, just before I dropped it in the trash.. Based on what youve said, Id call that thing junk,
Having a good float charger is a great thing,, but holding a battery @14+ volts is gonna cook water off, innitt?
Check the water & charge it up slow & easy. But,, If I buy an old anything with anything less than a trustworthy battery, Im gettin a new battery, soon, BUT, I would iron out the electricals before I put a new battery in,

Title: Re: Self starter drained battery...
Post by Oldfeller on 02/21/14 at 10:07:53

It is a 4 step computerized charger, so it might just have been interrupted part way through its cycle. Unhook it, unplug it, plug it back up and hook it up again and use your volt meter to judge what it is doing as it goes through its 4 cycles.

Justin is right, if it leaves you up at 13+ volts endlessly it will hurt your battery.

I suspect being a smart charger it is struggling with a not so optimum battery (yours) and may be doing some strange stuff.

Perfect for all lead-acid, flooded or sealed maintenance free batteries (AGM and gel cell).
Complete 4-step charging program (Initialization, Bulk Charge, Absorption Mode, Float Mode).
Automatically switches to float / maintenance voltage after fully charging the battery.
If the battery voltage drops too far under load, full charger output power resumes.
Solid state two color LED indicates stage of charger.
Spark proof.
Reverse polarity protected.
12' output cord.
5 year warranty

Title: Re: Self starter drained battery...
Post by hangsout on 02/21/14 at 10:48:15

Okay...so. Tried the battery. It turned the motor over. And then quickly crapped out. So I hooked the cables up to my car. That spun the motor over. Tried that about 5 times with fresh gas and set to prime. Each try was about 3-5 seconds of cranking. It back fired through the exhaust 2 times. Then..... Nothing. Lights are on. Starter clicks but no spin....dang. I thought I was gonna get fire.

Title: Re: Self starter drained battery...
Post by hangsout on 02/21/14 at 13:22:01

So... Im guessing it's not a good idea to try to jump start a motorcycle off a car. Took my starter apart. Care to guess what I found inside? That's right... Broken magnet parts. Dang. So trying to start it is on hold for now. Time to try and sort out other issues on this machine. Signals come on but don't flash and the front caliper came in a separate box. So on to it I guess.

Title: Re: Self starter drained battery...
Post by hangsout on 03/05/14 at 15:34:16

Hi again. So after hunting down a starter on ebay and waiting for it to arrive (used starter 27.00$ + 25.00 shipping) here is where I'm at. Installed starter, hooked up power,neutral, clutch in, hit the switch and it turned over really well. Ok... Pulled choke out and tried again,and again,and again. No fire. Opened up carb drain to make sure there was fuel in bowl. Yup. Tried a couple more times and got a couple bangs and a couple blow backs through the carb. Removed spark plug to check for spark. While I was turning it over to check spark I noticed a large amount of fuel blowing out of the cylinder. I have good spark btw. So I pulled the carb and brought it into the house for some kitchen table surgery.took off top and bottom, it looked reasonably clean. Cleaned as much as I could with half a can of seafoam (its all I had on hand) and a can of computer air. Put the jets back in and buttoned everything back up. Back out to the shed, reinstalled carb. On prime. Turned it over a couple of times and it coughed. Pulled choke (duh) and it fired and ran for about 5 seconds. Tried again and... Click,click,click... Drained battery!!!! Dang. But im happy that it fired up atleast. So battery is charging and im typing. I'm pretty sure I will have to do a real carb clean but man, I am so happy that thing fired up even though only briefly. While waiting for my starter I was having nightmares thinking I had bought something that was unsalvagable. But i see hope for it now and can't wait to start modding it. Plans are kinda up in the air for it. On one hand it will be my wife's bike and will get painted to match my vstar (silver with lots of chrome). On the other hand, maybe she won't like riding and it can become my bobber that I have wanted forever but never had the heart to strip down my vstar to do it. Anyways, have a great day everyone...

Title: Re: Self starter drained battery...
Post by verslagen1 on 03/05/14 at 18:16:57

don't burn up another starter, make sure to let it cool down.

Title: Re: Self starter drained battery...
Post by hangsout on 03/05/14 at 18:41:42

Good advise verslagen. I have a sneaking suspicion the the original starter was on its way out before I even started... When I was trying it, it would only turn the motor over like 2 revs and then it would hang. Release starter button try again and the same 2 revolutions. I think the magnet was already cracked or the glue had already let go. Who knows. This starter spins that motor like no one's business. I'm gonna try a bit more tomorrow to see if I can actually make it run for more than a few seconds. Also gonna grab a can of carb cleaner so I can shoot it into the passages well. Question... When I took the carb apart today, I stripped the head out of the screw that holds down the plate and valve so that didn't get cleaned in there. If I cut the head off,do you think I will be able to grab that screw with vise grips and get it out? Someone has been inside there before me and the screw was a little wonkered to start. Now it's fully stripped out. Any suggestions?

Title: Re: Self starter drained battery...
Post by Dave on 03/06/14 at 06:49:28

Make sure that the decompression solenoid is not pulling on the lever at the left front corner of the head. There needs to be a little bit of slack in the cable.

When I put my Mikuni carb on I could not get my bike to start....and blamed the carb initially. The starter turned the engine over quickly and it would occasionally cough....but it would not start. Eventually I found that the decompression cable I had installed for my manual lever was too tight and it was holding the exhaust valves open slightly....which killed the compression and the bike would not start for nothing. As soon as I got the lever were it was supposed to be - it fired right up.

Title: Re: Self starter drained battery...
Post by hangsout on 03/06/14 at 07:16:15

Thanks for the tip dave. I have already been looking at that cable just to make sure the decomp was working. It is. And there is some visual slack in it. I suspect my starting problem lies in a dirty carb that sat for a long time. PO said the bike was running last summer (as told to him by the previous po) but it had a 2001 license plate on it so I have my doubts that the bike has seen much running for quite a few years. I'm just about to go out and give her another shot. We'll see what happens. Thanks.

Title: Re: Self starter drained battery...
Post by hangsout on 03/06/14 at 11:39:59

Woohoo... It starts. And runs. And idles well. And revs up well. Put it in gear and let it roll a couple feet. I wish there wasn't a foot and a half of snow in my back yard but man, I'm way stoked. Woohoo again. This forum rocks. Thanks for all the info people. I have now read 180 pages in the RSD and just keep sucking in more great info... More to come.