|
SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> donor bike questions /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1392008661 Message started by Kirill Timofeev on 02/09/14 at 21:04:19 |
|
Title: donor bike questions Post by Kirill Timofeev on 02/09/14 at 21:04:19 Hi folks, today I bought donor 2003 savage, 7k on the clock, not sure what actually happened to it, you may see current state of it's piston. Cylinder has some couple of scratches and surface in the area of damage feels different. I have 1986 savage with 14k on the clock. Questions: 1. Does it makes sense to put engine from 1986 to 2003? 2. From your experience does it make sence to repair 2003 engine? 3. I've got title. If I'll decide to never ride this bike do I still need to do paperwork with DOL? Thanks, Kirill. |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by Kirill Timofeev on 02/09/14 at 21:04:55 Another piston view. |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by S-P on 02/09/14 at 21:38:48 Wow, that's some serious piston damage! It would seem to me that a check of the lower end would be a good idea. If your cylinder and heads are good on your '86 I don't see why you can't just swap your good top end onto the bottom end of the other if it is in good shape. From what I've seen here a top end can be good for well over 100,000 miles if it is maintained well. It might be possible to hone and put new rings in the damaged cylinder but you'd want to get it measured to see how damaged it was. |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by jcstokes on 02/09/14 at 21:43:01 Swapping the starter on to your existing bike might be a good idea. The techies can explain why. |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by Serowbot on 02/09/14 at 21:51:01 Yikes!... You win the worst piston I ever saw award... :o... You'll have to decide what parts are worth swapping with what... I wouldn't trust anything from that piston's engine... I would go ahead and title it in my name... (you can't legally even throw it away if it ain't yours)... |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by S-P on 02/09/14 at 21:59:36 242D3D3A21252B3D4E0 wrote:
Yep, my thoughts too. The starter limiter gear and side cover are a couple things to swap onto the '86 for sure, they might be worth the cost of the donor engine alone. Just be sure you take the limiter gear out in one piece (it will come out if you remove the starter gear first). DO NOT take it apart to get it out, you'll create a can of worms. Be sure you pay attention to the washers and where they go when you remove the gear from the newer engine. |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by verslagen1 on 02/09/14 at 22:48:43 I'd keep the '86 take the newer goodies why title it if it scrap |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by jcstokes on 02/09/14 at 23:44:04 And you might get the beautiful chrome covers off the head |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by Dave on 02/10/14 at 05:28:44 The only thing that I can think would beat a piston up that bad would be if the piston somehow got into the counterbalancer or crankshaft, and the only way that I think that could happen is if the rod broke. Pistons normally can't hit anything, and damage is usually just scoring or siezing when you run the engine out of oil or overheat it. |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by LANCER on 02/10/14 at 05:38:28 I may be on the fence here, but after looking closely at that piston I'd have to say that it is probably just a WEEEEEEE bit beyond repair. ::) I suppose that performance was compromised somewhat ? Yes ? ? :P |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by Kirill Timofeev on 02/10/14 at 07:49:07 Can't say anything regarding performance. Previous owner told me he suspects something was wrong with oil. 373A35383E29696C5B0 wrote:
|
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by Michael L on 02/10/14 at 10:17:30 darn that piston is seriously fried..! Some kind of meltdown must have been going on for sure.. :o I agree with the others.. But another thing that would be worth swapping to the newer engine is the 5 speed gearbox.. I have never ridden a 4 speed myself, it might not be worth swapping to 5 speed.. I didn't know there was a difference with the starter system from the old to newer engines? Can someone explain? Another thing.. Why does the site auto change "d a m n" to "darn" ? ;D |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/10/14 at 10:33:23 With that much junk knocked off the piston I wouldnt trust anything in the engine. Id save the engine for parts, but everything would need a very thorough inspection before it went into an engine. Ive only seen that kind of damage in hot rod engines. That was running wide open when it went south. & I agree with the balance weight/piston conflict idea.. & using the starter gear upgrade would be a great idea. I wouldnt title the thing,unless you think you have to to sell the frame, I dont know,,IDK the cost of titling, or value of having a title on a junker..I hope you didnt give much,, |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by verslagen1 on 02/10/14 at 11:30:44 043B7E7D7878480 wrote:
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1288911670 |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by Tempted on 02/10/14 at 12:17:16 Your 86 is a 4 speed, the 03 is a 5 speed. |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by Steve H on 02/10/14 at 16:37:18 You will get no advantage from the 5 speed over the 4 except having to change an extra gear. The ratios in high the same. And, like others have said, the rest of that engine is real suspect. It may have some serious hidden damage that you would find splitting the case. As far as the title. I would keep the bill of sale, title, etc., not title it unless I wanted to use the frame to make a rider of some sort or sell the frame to someone who wanted to license the bike they built with it. If you have all of the paperwork to prove that it's yours, you can sell it to someone else without ever having the title in your name. Your state may have some law that requires you to title in x number of days of purchase whether or not you intend to license and ride it. If so, there's a way to get title only without worrying about plates and stuff. If you have a law like this and don't title within the allotted time, you might be subject to a big late fee when you try to transfer it to someone else or license it yourself. |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by S-P on 02/10/14 at 20:46:11 7F4005060303330 wrote:
I have an '86 4 speed and it runs fine. I checked out the specs on the 5 speed and at the top end there is only 200 RPM difference. I think the 5 spped was just for tighter gearing in the mid range. |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by Kirill Timofeev on 02/10/14 at 21:37:39 Thanks for input folks. Today I called DOL and they told me that since I've got title I need to register bike. I'll talk to them during visit to understand better situation, but looks like in Washington state there is not much choice. This leaves me with 2 options: 1. Take off all nice shiny parts from 2003 and install them on rusty 1986 (including starter stuff). 2. Install starter stuff on 1986 engine and install engine on 2003. Since 1986 runs just fine now I hate to "fix what is not broken". But may be I'm missing something, any thoughts would be highly appreciated. Answering justin_o_guy2 question: I paid $50. After that I paid $80 for uhaul cargo van. And looks like I'll pay something to DOL. Nevertheless I think this was unbelievable deal. |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by verslagen1 on 02/10/14 at 21:41:19 you can sell the bare frame with title. every once in a while someone needs it. If you title it, non-op it. In CA, it's a one time fee. |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by Kirill Timofeev on 02/10/14 at 21:48:14 Thanks Verslagen, but may I ask you to clarify what "non-op" means here? Mark it as non operational? In case I'll decide to put 1986 engine to 2003 bike would I be able to mark it operational again? |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by verslagen1 on 02/10/14 at 21:58:00 312E636D6C6D635A0 wrote:
yep on both accounts. If you're looking to maximize resell value, put the '86 in the '03. |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by S-P on 02/11/14 at 19:14:55 Quote:
I have a low miles '86 engine in a 2005 frame. In AZ I believe the frame is titled but the engine is not so you can swap motors all day long in your frame with a title. |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by Kirill Timofeev on 02/11/14 at 19:59:55 Thanks folks for clarification. After some thought decided to install starter stuff from 2003 on 1986, ride this bikes until it has valid tabs (till next october) after that would install 1986 engine to 2003 frame. |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by Kirill Timofeev on 02/17/14 at 11:36:15 I took off engine from the bike and got alternator cover off. From my point of view it makes sense to swap starter gear and cover so I'll not have to drill the old cover. What bothers me is that after removing cover I found part of piston and filings. What do you think, would it be safe to wash cover with coils and install it? |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by verslagen1 on 02/17/14 at 11:59:58 Now you see why we don't recommend rebuilding the busted engine. Check for any shorts of the coil windings to ground and each phase, then should be good to go. |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by Kirill Timofeev on 02/17/14 at 18:19:47 Thanks Verslagen! No shorts found, each coil is 0.21 ohms, looks good. I'll wash out all trash and would try to install it in the nearest future. |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by Kirill Timofeev on 02/27/14 at 23:17:12 Torque limiter gear with generator cover moved from 2003 engine to 1986 engine. Are there any other parts, that were improved on 2003 bike and can be moved to 1986? |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by Dave on 02/28/14 at 05:06:22 Kirill.....or any others that have both a 4 and 5 speed. Next time you have the clutch cover off either or both of the engines, count the teeth on the crankshaft gear and clutch gear of the 4 and 5 speed engines....and see if they are the same. If they are different it might be a way to alter the gearing a bit. |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by verslagen1 on 02/28/14 at 08:07:25 probably only the '86 has a different ratio. I know the '88 has the same as all the rest. |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by verslagen1 on 02/28/14 at 08:10:08 Quote:
that's pretty much it. |
|
Title: Re: donor bike questions Post by Kirill Timofeev on 03/01/14 at 17:59:27 Hi Dave, please find photo of the gear from 2003 engine attached. If my math is correct it has 37 teeth. Unfortunately most likely I'll open 1986 engine not earlier than next autumn. I'll try to remember to take a photo of internals as well. 477C7166777B60667D757867140 wrote:
|
|
SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |