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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> cone filter question /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1390791931 Message started by Kirill Timofeev on 01/26/14 at 19:05:31 |
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Title: cone filter question Post by Kirill Timofeev on 01/26/14 at 19:05:31 Hi folks, do you think this filter can be used with savage: http://www.ebay.com/itm/60MM-CHROME-AIR-FILTER-Cone-Honda-Kawasaki-Suzuki-Yamaha-KTM-Motorcycle-H-AF26-/181024628996?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a25e8a104&vxp=mtr ? Thanks, Kirill |
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Title: Re: cone filter question Post by Boofer on 01/26/14 at 20:55:26 No. You need 57mm inside diameter. I'm going from memory, but it should be 2 1/4". Lancer or one of the other "old regulars" posted a source and price in Technical. 'Also keep in mind the passage on the edge of the circumference of the carb neck so you dont block it. Rejetting may be required and remember to account for the complete flow from air in to exhaust out. Lancer, any advice? :) |
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Title: Re: cone filter question Post by Kirill Timofeev on 01/26/14 at 22:28:42 Filter on ebay is 60mm, can it be installed using some kind of adapter? Or there are other reasons why it shouldn't be used? |
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Title: Re: cone filter question Post by PAPiekarski on 01/27/14 at 03:54:07 I just bought the same one for my savage 3mm difference between 57 and 60 should be able to be clampped |
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Title: Re: cone filter question Post by Dave on 01/27/14 at 09:53:38 For those of you wanting to do the Cone Filter conversion, there is a detailed description in the Technical Documents area. Members are encouraged to look at this section, especially the Table of Contents with links at the top that has the threads indexed. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1181745927 Cone Filter thread: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1183926901/0 Also, if you are putting on a filter - be sure it does not block the flow to the oval shaped vent at the top of the carb throat. If you block this off with the rubber grommet of the filter.....your bike is going to run very poorly. |
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Title: Re: cone filter question Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/27/14 at 10:53:23 Quote:
Read Like Crap |
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Title: Re: cone filter question Post by verslagen1 on 01/27/14 at 11:46:13 5C4345425F5869596951434F04360 wrote:
All pod filters tend to run like crap. Air flow thru the filter doesn't have time to straighten out and stabilize before entering the carb. A short straight section is recommended... how long? same as the stock rubber ducky on there now. |
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Title: Re: cone filter question Post by Boofer on 01/27/14 at 19:22:03 1F0E1F262A242E3D3C24264F0 wrote:
It's kinda' like dialing a phone number. Close ain't good enough; especially when the correct size is available. And only change one thing at a time, so you can start over if it doesn't run. ;) |
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Title: Re: cone filter question Post by Kirill Timofeev on 01/27/14 at 19:42:36 Thanks a lot for information and thanks for the links Dave. I read those threads, but unfortunately nothing was said if 60 mm filter can fit 57 mm flange. Filter on ebay I was asking about claims to use washable no oil design. It would be interesting to hear from anybody who used this filter how it affected performance and what are service intervals between filter cleaning. I tried to find performance impact information on the internet and here are links I found: http://www.fastcar.co.uk/2012/05/04/performance-car-air-filter-test/9/ http://blog.perrinperformance.com/foam-filter-qa-why-they-are-the-best/ According to those articles cone filters are less restrictive than standard airboxes (at least for cars) and foam filters a superior to others. I wonder if this correlates with experience of people, who played with different filters on their savages. Thanks, Kirill. |
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Title: Re: cone filter question Post by Serowbot on 01/27/14 at 22:20:10 An unrestricted intake... like an unrestricted exhaust,... will make maximum HP... All other things being equal... ...but, it is at the expense of narrowing the powerband... This works for a 1/4 mile racer... because they will go full throttle for a few seconds in a straight line...(drag racers launch at full throttle and slip the clutch... they can't take off from idle because they have no powerband)... In the real world,... torque rules... A wider powerband, will accelerate, from idle... give performance in all gears,.. and be forgiving when the unexpected happens... And never sound like it's working hard... Also,.. (although, I've never heard of a washable no_oil air filter),... it would be, in effect, a non-filter... it might as well be a velocity stack)... which will work well for a narrow range. high rpm, drag engine, that is intended to be rebuilt every 10 or 20 passes... (that's a 5 mile engine life)... You need filtration for engine life... ...and you need restriction in intake and exhaust, to widen the powerband... Particularly with a low rev big thumper,... because it will never turn 12k rpm... it needs to have wide torque... Sacrificing torque for HP in a thumper, is taking away the only advantage a thumper has... and trying to make it act like a high rev engine... A large mass, low rev engine, makes torque... A low mass, high rev engine, makes HP... You can't make apples out of oranges... Our bike requires some restriction in breathing, in order to perform at it's best... Fortunately,.. this will also make an engine last longer too... Filtered air, is as important as clean oil, in making an engine last... Once you have limited rpm (in our case it is limited by the weight of the larger moving parts)... you can only gain HP, by reducing the powerband.... and that just ain't good math in a low rev bike... |
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Title: Re: cone filter question Post by Kirill Timofeev on 01/27/14 at 23:25:08 Thanks for good explanation Serowbot. I was not thinking of increasing hp, I thought of simplifying things a little bit (e.g. for taking off carb) without sacrifycing filtering quality. If best filtering quality can be provided only by stock filter and airbox I definitely wouldn't switch to cone filter. Thanks, Kirill. |
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Title: Re: cone filter question Post by wambr on 01/28/14 at 06:42:41 Kirill, are you russian? where are you from? |
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Title: Re: cone filter question Post by Kirill Timofeev on 01/28/14 at 08:30:50 Yes, I'm russian, I'm from Saint-Petersburg, currently in Seattle. |
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Title: Re: cone filter question Post by Kirill Timofeev on 01/28/14 at 20:27:46 I come across this article today: http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Airboxes.html Do we have resonant airbox on savage? If yes stock filtering system can't be substituted with anything smaller. Otherwise theoretically it should be possible to create small air filter that would have characteristics (in terms of flow restriction and filtering quality) similar to stock filter. Or I'm missing something? |
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Title: Re: cone filter question Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/28/14 at 21:05:12 I am no real student of optimizing airflow thru a motor, BUT, I did read some before I started messing with the air filter. What I read was, The volume behind the filter needs to be at least as big as the volume of the cylinder. I spent quite a bit of time working inside the air box to increase the volume. I probably gained 70 or 80 CCs with the stuff I did,, If I had it to do over, Id leave the intake alone, stay stock, paper filter,, Its not gonna make a difference to speak of,, If someone just wants the open look,, okay, I get that,, BUT, Before I made a change like that, Id run it against a stop watch, Id run it wide open, pay attention to temperature & humidity, because when those change, performance changes,so, before & after tests need to be on days close in temp & humidity,, If someone is trying to gain performance, they really should do it scientifically.,.know how it runs before change is made, compare to performance after,., Thats something this board has not done, |
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Title: Re: cone filter question Post by Kirill Timofeev on 01/29/14 at 20:41:27 Yes, it would be very interesting to run dynamometer tests using different air filters. Does anybody here have dynamometer at hand :)? |
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