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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Death by neglect... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1390546317 Message started by Serowbot on 01/23/14 at 22:51:57 |
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Title: Death by neglect... Post by Serowbot on 01/23/14 at 22:51:57 Use it or lose it.... Most bikes I buy,.. are dead by neglect... I buy them cheap. and get them running again... Many things die of neglect... I have a dishwasher I never use... it's probably dead... a clothes dryer too... (they came with the house)... So,.. I have an odd problem... Black mold... in the toilet... I've been attacking it multiple ways for a couple of years... until I came across a U-tube vid... that informed me, it's hopeless... This mold grew inside the bowl ring while the house was sitting dormant... and you can't clean it out from the outside... The clever trick... is to use a submersible fountain pump... You shut off the water, empty the bowl, and fill the bowl with vinegar and bleach... then let the pump circulate flow from bowl to tank for several hours, or overnight... So,.. I'm seeking a pump... and whilst browsing Harbor Freight, I find a super power fountain pump (open box discount) for $7.00... As I'm standing in line,.. I'm reading the box and it pumps 620GPM 11.5ft up... ...is that too much?... I have a frightening vision (not pretty)... and cut out of the checkout line to return the pump to the shelves... How much pump do I need?... I'm looking at one with 160GPM flow, and 1.2M lift... ... but, I don't know why... :-/... It's a 1.6 or 1.8 gallon flush commode... 60 seconds / 3 second flush = 20 flush per minute to make constant flow x 1.8 gallon = 36 gallon per minute... but, I need at least 1 meter rise just to be sure?... I suck at maths... (I don't want such a feeble flow that it won't fill the ring, but I don't blow myself up in a... you know)...(a Shitstorm?)... :-/... Any ideas?... :-?... Ain't life complicated?,,,, :P... Pardon my being so far off the motorcycle related topic,.. I wouldn't ask if I didn't find it such a ridiculous predicament... ...and there weren't some fairly clever, engineering type people in here... What size pump do I need?... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Death by neglect... Post by mpescatori on 01/24/14 at 00:19:55 AFAIK... as long as the pump doesn't splash out on the floor, it's good... 620 gals/min. is a heck of a pump ! Are you sure you can't adjust the rate ? Maybe by fiddling with the AC input ? I mean, if it pumps 620gals/min at 125 VAC, maybe if you use a transformer to reduce voltage to 110 or even 90 VAC it'll slow down... ::) |
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Title: Re: Death by neglect... Post by arteacher on 01/24/14 at 03:12:01 Go ask at an aquarium store. |
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Title: Re: Death by neglect... Post by raydawg on 01/24/14 at 04:05:13 buy a new pooper..... |
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Title: Re: Death by neglect... Post by Dave on 01/24/14 at 06:32:48 Serowbot: Are you sure the flow rate is not listed as 620 gal/hr? Something that will pump 620 gallon per minute will need a really big hose! I have a sewage lift station in one of the towns I work at that are 3 ph, 5 hp, and they pump through a 4" diameter pipe, and they flow 100 gpm......and each pump weighs about 400 pounds! Don't worry too much about the height listing......it will pump lower or higher.....that is the height at which the flow rate was measured. The only critical things about powerful pumps is to not allow too little resistance that will let the rotor cavitate.....This happens when a pump is too big or running too fast and the fluid loses contact with the back side of the impeller blades. I can't see this happening in a $ 7.00 pump. If....the pumps are 620 gph that is about 10 gallon per minute.....and that is probablly fine for a toilet. If you need a bit less flow from the pump, just make a small bypass that allows some of the flow from the pump to squirt back into the bowl and not get pumped up to the tank. The overflow tube a the top of the tank will do that for you anyhow if the tank becomes too full. Another thing you could do to help retain some of the flush water in the ring, is to use good duct tape and block off some of the holes to help slow the ring from draining too quickly. Maybe flush one side at a time........ You sure know how to have fun out there! ;D |
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Title: Re: Death by neglect... Post by Serowbot on 01/24/14 at 07:02:54 Oooops!... Dave, yer' right it was 620GPH... That would work, ya' think?... |
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Title: Re: Death by neglect... Post by verslagen1 on 01/24/14 at 07:37:05 Careful my friend! From Wikipedia... Vinegar is a liquid consisting mainly of acetic acid (CH3COOH) and water. Chlorine-based bleaches are found in many household cleaners. The concentration of chlorine-based bleaches is often expressed as percent active chlorine where one gram of a 100% active chlorine bleach has the same bleaching power as one gram of chlorine. These bleaches can react with other common household chemicals like vinegar or ammonia to produce toxic gases. Labels on sodium hypochlorite bleach warn about these interactions. Chemical interactions[edit]Mixing a hypochlorite bleach with an acid can liberate chlorine gas. Hypochlorite and chlorine are in equilibrium in water; the position of the equilibrium is pH dependent and low pH (acidic) favors chlorine,[13] Cl2 + H2O \rightleftharpoons H+ + Cl[ch8722] + HClO Chlorine is a respiratory irritant that attacks mucous membranes and burns the skin. As little as 3.53 ppm can be detected as an odor, and 1000 ppm is likely to be fatal after a few deep breaths. Exposure to chlorine has been limited to 0.5 ppm (8-hour time-weighted average—38 hour week) by OSHA in the U.S.[14] Sodium hypochlorite and ammonia react to form a number of products, depending on the temperature, concentration, and how they are mixed.[15] The main reaction is chlorination of ammonia, first giving chloramine (NH2Cl), then dichloramine (NHCl2) and finally nitrogen trichloride (NCl3). These materials are very irritating to the eyes and lungs and are toxic above certain concentrations; nitrogen trichloride is also a very sensitive explosive. NH3 + NaOCl [ch8594] NaOH + NH2Cl NH2Cl + NaOCl [ch8594] NaOH + NHCl2 NHCl2 + NaOCl [ch8594] NaOH + NCl3 Additional reactions produce hydrazine, in a variation of the Olin Raschig process. NH3 + NH2Cl + NaOH [ch8594] N2H4 + NaCl + H2O The hydrazine generated can react with more chloramine in an exothermic reaction to produce ammonium chloride and nitrogen gas:[13] 2 NH2Cl + N2H4 [ch8594] 2 NH4Cl + N2 Atmospheric carbon dioxide and water react with bleaching powder (CaCl(OCl)) to release hypochlorous acid which gives a characteristic smell to the bleaching powder. Hypochlorous acid decomposes readily to atomic oxygen. This atomic oxygen acts as bleaching agent through oxidation.[citation needed] 2CaCl(OCl) + H2O + CO2 [ch8594] CaCO3 + CaCl2 + 2HClO HClO [ch8594] HCl + [O] 2HCl + [O] [ch8594] H2O + Cl2 However, the place of atomic oxygen in accounting for the formation of chlorine is not as plausible as another theory based on the so-called 'chloride system' employed in modern hydrometallurgy to dissolve ores with weak acids in highly ionic and concentrated salt solutions.[citation needed] Salts particularly effective, in this regard, include MgCl2, CaCl2, FeCl3 and, to a less extent the mono-valent NaCl. This is, in effect, an application of the non-common ion theory, or as discussed in Wikipedia under Solubility Equilibrium as the 'salt effect'. With respect to Bleaching powder, which has been described as a compound salt of the form Ca(ClO)2.CaCl2.Ca(OH)2.xH2O, the presence of CaCl2 in very concentrated solutions can greatly increase the 'activity level' of weak acids. So, in this particular proposed application, H2CO3 from CO2 and moisture on the Bleaching powder, acts on the CaCl2 to release some HCl which acts on the HClO releasing Chlorine: HClO + HCl [ch8594] H2O + Cl2 or, the increasing acidity creates more HClO which moves the following known (and old, see Watt's Dictionary of Chemistry[citation needed]) equilibrium reaction to the right: CaCl2 + 2 HClO = Ca(OH)2 + 2 Cl2 Now, the strength of the particular application of this theory is that a similar release of Chlorine is not as easily observed with concentrated NaClO solutions[citation needed] (which it should be if one subscribes to the action of atomic oxygen on HCl). As the latter Chlorine bleach also contains NaCl, and as the NaCl is not quite as effective as previously noted as, for example, with CaCl2, the ionic strength is not as great for noticeable Chlorine formation. |
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Title: Re: Death by neglect... Post by Serowbot on 01/24/14 at 07:45:59 Geez, Verse... "They found the body slumped over the toilet with a bizarre pump contraption,... death by toilet gassing"... Not epitaph I'm hoping for... :-/... Maybe just use straight bleach?... or 50/50 water/bleach?... |
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Title: Re: Death by neglect... Post by thumperclone on 01/24/14 at 08:20:44 bleach will ruin any rubber seals of age @tank to bowl & tank mount washers discharge tube down into bowl throat unless its time for overhaul |
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Title: Re: Death by neglect... Post by Dave on 01/24/14 at 08:31:20 The pump should be fine.....worth a $ 7 try. When you get the thing hooked up and decide what chemical to use....go ahead and stretch some Saran wrap over the top of the bowl and the top of the tank to keep the vapors from moving around more than necessary. The overflow tube will act as a vent to supply any air that needs to enter or leave the system. (Remember to remove the Saran Wrap from the bowl before you have any company come over for a visit!) ;D |
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Title: Re: Death by neglect... Post by verslagen1 on 01/24/14 at 08:35:30 Interesting note about chlorine and rubber. You can probably guess what'll do to your HF pump. |
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Title: Re: Death by neglect... Post by Serowbot on 01/24/14 at 08:42:46 Plan on running the pump hose down past the flapper to bypass the tank,.. so it'll be mostly running through ceramic... the tank will be empty... Any suggestions other than bleach?... |
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Title: Re: Death by neglect... Post by verslagen1 on 01/24/14 at 08:52:12 OK, I might attack this slightly differently. I got a mold spray that does a pretty good job against the crap, but that's surface bound and easy to get to. Yours is in a passageway. Flowing water thru it might not fill it up and treat the entirety of the problem. get some cork, plug each of the little port around the bowl. [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif] find some small diameter tubing and shove it into one of the ports. use a funnel, syringe whatever to pour straight bleach into the tube filling the passageway till it comes out somewhere else. let sit for as long as you can stand it, or 24 hrs. that should do it. |
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Title: Re: Death by neglect... Post by Serowbot on 01/24/14 at 09:06:39 That's a lot of corks... I'll have a look around and see if I can find anything appropriate... (I was kinda' looking forward to turning my toilet into a turbocharged bidet)... ;D ;D ;D... |
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Title: Re: Death by neglect... Post by verslagen1 on 01/24/14 at 09:26:44 4157405D45505D46320 wrote:
BUHAAHAHA |
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Title: Re: Death by neglect... Post by Dane Allen on 01/24/14 at 09:59:54 4C5F4849565B5D5F540B3A0 wrote:
BUHAAHAHA[/quote] Also solves the dishwasher problem at the same time ;D ;D ;D You know, you can get a new toilet at Home Depot easily for half the cost of your personal labor rate. Under $150 for sure... |
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Title: Re: Death by neglect... Post by Serowbot on 01/24/14 at 10:09:41 I've come up with a plan,.. involving a bicycle innertube and a 158GPH pump...(combining Versy and Dave's recommendations into one... (the 620GPH was sold)... Should be fun... Maybe I'll make a bird fountain out back when I'm done... ;D... |
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Title: Re: Death by neglect... Post by runwyrlph aka limpaway on 01/25/14 at 07:01:43 "...Found slumped over the toilet with an assortment of corks and a black rubber device, purpose unknown...." That coroner's report/ epitaph is not looking good :-? |
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Title: Re: Death by neglect... Post by RatdogWillie on 01/27/14 at 07:13:21 Why not just fill with a gallon of white vinegar, top of with water before retiring for the night? .....may not need a pump.....just a long soak. |
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Title: Re: Death by neglect... Post by Dave on 01/27/14 at 07:52:21 635045555E5666585D5D5854310 wrote:
Cause it will run out the drain in the bottom in about 5 seconds. The mold issue is at the ring at the top of the bowl....the one you have to stick your head in the bowl while dipping your hair in the water to see! The mold is up inside the part that sends the water to all those little holes that distribute the water around the perimeter of the bowl when you flush. (I sure hope Serowbot doesn't post a photo!) |
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Title: Re: Death by neglect... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/27/14 at 07:55:50 Id take it apart & replace the seals,or clean them up, but bleach doesnt sound like the plan,, However, it is important remember that just killing black mold is not enough. The dead molds, spores and mold components are also capable of causing allergies and toxicity symptoms. Read more at Buzzle: http://www.buzzle.com/articles/black-mold-removal-with-bleach.html |
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Title: Re: Death by neglect... Post by Serowbot on 01/27/14 at 08:12:23 UPDATE... ;D... (I know yer' all riveted)... It worked... 158gph was weak, so I plugged 75% of the holes to get a good fill and flow to the front... (the 620gph probably would have done better, but might have been too big to submerge)... Ran the pump for about 2 hrs, then pulled the plugs and ran for 1 hr more... Door closed, and window open... (I stayed out most of the time)... Thanks for all the advice... ;)... |
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Title: Re: Death by neglect... Post by Dave on 01/27/14 at 09:26:44 6C7A6D70687D706B1F0 wrote:
I can't wait to see how this pump gets......"re-purposed". :) |
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