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Message started by Oldfeller on 01/18/14 at 10:03:19

Title: Intel selling Bay Trail at loss to get marketshare
Post by Oldfeller on 01/18/14 at 10:03:19

Some research into the pricing shown below indicates the use of loss leader marketing by Intel in an attempt to buy some mobile market share.

Intel has been caught out at it though and is currently getting down rated to SELL status by Wall Street as it may be seen as proof that Bay Trail is NOT EVER going to be cost competitive in the mobile marketplace.

:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

Here are two new bare board contestants and
what it would take to get them Ubuntu 12.10 ready.

First contender, the mighty INTEL Bay Trail board by MSI.

MSI J1800i is a Bay Trail board and CPU combo for just $60]

http://cdn.liliputing.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/msi-bay-trail-60.jpg
once again, we are shocked at the amount of other chipsets, capacitors and components that a Bay Trail processor requires in order just to function at all.
Bay Trail is really not integrated much at all, actually.

The j1800i is very similar to the ECS BAT-I. It features a 64-bit dual-core chip clocked at 2.41Ghz, and only a small aluminum heatsink is required for cooling. With a TDP of just 10W, the Celeron J1800 isn’t going to throw a whole lot of heat. Flanking the CPU on MSI’s new mini board are dual DIMM slots that can accommodate a maximum of 8GB of DDR3 RAM.

You’re limited to two SATA ports for storage, as it doesn’t look like MSI has included an mSATA socket on the j1800i. You’ve got plenty of display options, though, with VGA, DVI, and HDMI all at the ready. Legacy PS/2 keyboard and mouse ports are also provided, as are a pair of USB 3.0 ports, four USB 2.0 ports, and a gigabit Ethernet port (sorry, no dual NICs here).

While the MSI j1800i is priced very reasonably at $60, and even after you add in a case and power supply you’re still only around $110. That’s quite a bit cheaper than Intel’s Celeron-based NUC. Add $75 to max out the RAM and pop in your drive, and you’ve got yourself a complete mini-desktop or HTPC for around $250.

So, the hook it up and run it price is really about $250 which goes past a lot of large tablets out there right now with better processors.

The $250 Bay Trail is the very poorest one of the 3 low cost units compared in this low cost Ubuntu machine review.

=====================

Next contestant, the $59 ARM based Odroid U3

$59 ODROID-U3 Community Edition

http://dn.odroid.com/homebackup/201312222305368236.jpg

http://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G138733896281&tab_idx=1

KEY FEATURES

* The Powerful Linux Computer
* 1.7GHz Quad-Core processor and 2GByte RAM
* 10/100Mbps Ethernet with RJ-45 LAN Jack
* 3 x High speed USB2.0 Host ports
* Audio codec with headphone jack on board
* XUbuntu 13.10 or Android 4.x Operating System
* Size : 83 x 48 mm, Weight : 48g including heat sink
* Package includes the main board and the heat sink

This pupper really needs only a moderate sized SIMM card added to it for storage, or you can spring $40-$60 more to get some 2x faster EEMC storage if you like the quicker effect. Net cost after shipping and SIMM storage would be circa $110.

This 3rd generation unit comes ready to run, and it does OK for Ubuntu 12.10 and other FOSS software uses.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USnDPrTAUaE[/media]

Gaming looks like this:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xPzOM29v5w[/media]

====================

Last unit to compare is the current reigning champion of low cost computing, the Dell 780 or Dell 790 coming off 4 year lease at Dell's Auction site or from one of the Ebay based large off-lease resellers.

http://www.cedishop.com/content/products/images/full/21788_0.jpg

Coming to you with a dual core 3.0 ghz Core 2 Duo processor, 80+ gig hard drive, with a Windows OS for dual booting, 4 gigs of systems memory and a huge 6 megabytes per processor core L2 cache
(big enough to hold Ubuntu whatever version totally sitting right there in the processor cache)

Landed cost with shipping (Black Friday Special) is $80 total, which is an unbeatable value so far.

Additional cost for some really good gaming will be a better grade of video card, which is found here.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202002#top

So, full cost of the totally completed, finished, full gaming PC, ready for Steam or whatever major games would be $220.

Winner for "Just Use Ubuntu & FOSS programs" is Dell Refurb
Winner for gaming is Dell Refurb
Winner for the best "bang for buck" is still the Dell Refurb

#2 place goes to Odroid U3 which is everyday available for less than $130 (fully loaded with deluxe options) and it certainly can run your FOSS stuff in acceptable manner at that price.

#3 last place goes to Bay Trail -- it costs too much as it requires a lot of extra purchases, takes way way too much extra stuff to get it running and it is slower than the Dell Refurb unit by quite a bit when it is completed.

Title: Intel selling Bay Trail at a loss to buy marketsha
Post by Oldfeller on 01/19/14 at 09:20:45

http://liliputing.com/2014/01/bay-trail-tablets-cheap-intels-footing-bill.html

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9245530/How_Intel_is_buying_a_piece_of_the_tablet_market

Intel is selling Bay Trail at a loss attempting to generate market share

How Intel is buying a piece of the tablet market

"Intel’s hoping the move will increase its market share and help fend off the growing competition from Qualcomm, Samsung, NVIDIA, and other ARM-based chip makers.

The move means that Intel isn’t actually making much money from the sale of low-cost tablets like the Dell Venue 8 Pro or Acer Iconia W4. In fact, the chip maker is probably losing money. But Intel is hoping that paying now to help bring the costs down will be an investment that pays off in the long run.

It's not hard to see why Intel is being aggressive: PC sales are in the toilet and the chip maker has been left behind in the hottest market in personal computing. The vast majority of tablets today use ARM chip designs manufactured by the likes of Samsung, Apple, Nvidia, Qualcomm and China's Rockchip.

One cause of Intel's problems is that Bay Trail was designed for the high end of the tablet market, where Windows 8 has performed poorly. Intel now sees its biggest opportunity in lower-priced Android devices, but it's stuck with Bay Trail until new Atom chips code-named Broxton and SoFIA come out in 2015.

Analysts say Bay Trail is a good performer but doesn't have as much functionality integrated onto the chip as other tablet SOCs, so it creates a higher "bill of materials" for tablet makers. That means they need to buy additional components for functions like communications, or print additional layers onto Bay Trail circuit boards, Krzanich said Thursday."

===============

This fact is very interesting in that while selling your product at a loss to break into a new "locked up" market is not unheard of, it is unheard of for you to have to do it in your own home ground market, the one you already own.

What this signals is that there is new competition that has come into your old home "owned" market has an unbeatable price advantage on you.

Right now Wintel is still struggling to sell anything into the mobile phone/tablet world based upon making a profit or not. They can't do it while breaking even, so Intel is now officially selling chips at a loss (their own fiscal reporting says so). The fact they are doing this sort of action signals some sort of desperation moves on the part of Intel to get into the game at any cost.

Are they frantically buying some time until Win 9 can ride in and save the day? Microsoft is a bad bet to trust to save your company, ask Nokia about that if you don't believe us.

MS is going to be over a year TOO LATE when they do pump out Win 9, and right now the planned Win 9 does not seem to be ARM friendly in any new fashion any how. ARM-wise, Win 9 is a flop from the beginning.

Financially, it is perhaps a bad move for you to have done this below cost pricing because YOU ARE SETTING THE FUTURE PRICE POINTS FOR YOUR WINTEL PRODUCTS IN CONCRETE RIGHT NOW BASED OFF OF SOME DEEP DEEP LOSS LEADER PRICE POSITIONS THAT YOU ARE CURRENTLY TAKING.

And if you are still coming off as sorta high priced compared to the new ARM products that are functionally at the same performance level as the best your energy nanny technology can give (while being sold at a loss) then once again, you are in deep trouble.

And what you have actually signaled to the financial world is that your best shot, sold at loss leader pricing, is about to be overcome by the next wave of 64 bit 20nm ARM chipsets.

The new 2014 ARM 20 nm A15/A7 chipsets will boast some 3 ghz big core speeds which will then cleanly outperform Bay Trail at any given power consumption level. Bay Trail will then have no real advantage except Microsoft, which isn't really much of an advantage right now.

:-?

Wall Street has noted all of the above, and Intel is now being rated as a "Sell" by some of them.

:-? ...... yup, that new ARM general purpose OS will play very strongly into this equation as Intel is hoping folks addiction to Windows will be what saves them.

Problem is that this "Windows thinking" only really effects the USA and Europe really, all those new Asian markets HAVE no embedded Windows preference, indeed they think that Android is a swell OS because that is all they have ever known or used.

http://dn.odroid.com/homebackup/201312222305368236.jpg

BTW, the little Odroid unit up top of this thread can come with a complete, broad range general purpose ARM OS (Ubuntu 12.10) already loaded on it when it is shipped out the door. Surprise on you Intel, it even comes with a known and already accepted Libre Office product and even has Valve's Steam available for it as well.

And it sells at a profit for $59 and it does not require a huge circuit board full of other capacitors and chipsets like your Bay Trail does.