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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Manual cam chain adjuster /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1389325035 Message started by verslagen1 on 01/09/14 at 19:37:15 |
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Title: Manual cam chain adjuster Post by verslagen1 on 01/09/14 at 19:37:15 The current verslavy mod was designed based upon a couple of tenets most of us have... make no change that's not reversible, and feasible by the average savage owner. the simplest way is... http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/IMG_20131230_120704.jpg but this entails opening the clutch cover every few thousand miles and making an adjustment since there's no simple way to add a port in the clutch cover due to the filter being in the way. Now I've thought of using something like a VW rear brake adjuster and position a lever near the oil fill hole so you peck a spring loaded lever with a screwdriver to adjust. But that would lead to an over adjustment with no way to back it off. So, my current thought is to design an adjuster like... http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/photo.jpg My concern is it requires a mod to the case or cylinder. This is not something the average savage can do. The hole size would have to precisely placed, angled correctly and clean. Hell, I'm wondering if I can do it. This will require a fixture to help you drill a hole in the right place. Several of them made and passed for member to member to use. And either a new design manual adjuster made or utilize one of the existing ones. thoughts? |
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Title: Re: Manual cam chain adjuster Post by Serowbot on 01/09/14 at 21:12:41 I like a manual adjuster... had one on an old bike... ... but,... the Versy mod is pretty easy,, and works good... I don't think I'd be willing to go to the extra trouble... I put it on at 25k... don't think I'll worry 'till 50k... when I'll put on a new chain and shoot for 100k... If I were looking for new mod to design... my preference would be a simple midset mod... ...or a cast aluminum intake manifold to replace the rubber one... An external spin-on oil filter would be nice, but I can't imagine an easy way to do it... |
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Title: Re: Manual cam chain adjuster Post by thumperclone on 01/09/14 at 23:22:34 come up with a belt cam drive |
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Title: Re: Manual cam chain adjuster Post by S-P on 01/09/14 at 23:43:35 Well... people are willing to send their old cam adjusters to you to modify and return to them, why not their side covers? The only difference is a few bucks of postage. This is a critical issue and either way folks are going to have to pay someone to fix, replace or modify parts. I have a junk motor I'd be willing to donate a side cover for an experiment. |
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Title: Re: Manual cam chain adjuster Post by PAPiekarski on 01/10/14 at 02:50:58 I would not order the new design, too much of a pain |
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Title: Re: Manual cam chain adjuster Post by Dave on 01/10/14 at 03:52:31 I have no mental or physical problem pulling my side cover of once a year to make the adjustment - but then again I have 4 months of down time every winter to work on my bike, I have a heated shop, and I have good lighting. If my bike sat under a tarp or carport I might feel differently about it. The question becomes how often would a manual adjuster need adjustment? I searched some forums on other bikes and one fellow had gone 10,000 miles without an adjustment on a sport bike, others claim they check theirs once of twice a season. I think the current automatic adjuster is too eager to grab a new spot on the ratchet. The chain might be a tad loose when the engine is cold - but I do believe it becomes over tensioned when the engine is warm. If we could modify the current automatic so that there was a small amount of give to relieve some of the stress once the engine is warm (in addition to the Versy mods).....I think the life of the chain could be longer. One potential way to keep the current automatic tensioner.....and also make it manual.....would be to establsh some sort of a lock on the ratchet pawl that could be released and reset from the outside. If the pawl on the ratchet could be locked in place to prevent the tensioner from extending automatically - you could ride until you thought it was time to allow the tensioner to reset. You could then release the lock, turn the engine over a few times and allow the tensioner spring and ratchet to take a new setting, then tighten the lock on the pawl again. At this point I don't know what form that lock would be to make it so you could operate it from outside the case.....but if you don't mind removing the outer case it could be as simple as a cotter pin through the pawl. I believe I am going to try making some sort of a lock for the pawl, and see how that holds up and see if I can go an entire riding season without an adjustment. |
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Title: Re: Manual cam chain adjuster Post by old_rider on 01/10/14 at 04:40:56 Someone going to throw up the sizes of the eyelets, nuts and coupling? Looks like they could be purchased at a local hardware store, and once every 10k would probably be a good time to open and adjust and check on the guide I would think. |
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Title: Re: Manual cam chain adjuster Post by Dave on 01/10/14 at 04:49:09 74777F69727F7E691B0 wrote:
Most of that manual adjuster scheme looks OK to me...other than the fact that the eyelets at the end are Heim Joints. The stock tensioner has mounts that do not allow lateral movement or rotation....and I am not sure that using ends that allow lateral movement is a good thing - as the stock tensioner does help to keep the rail in alignment. It also appears that the barrel nut and Heim Joints are fine threads which is a good thing - most local hardware stores are only going to carry the barrel nuts for threaded rod which are coarse thread. |
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Title: Re: Manual cam chain adjuster Post by old_rider on 01/10/14 at 05:49:20 A washer to use as a spacer would stop the twist (add to damage if it came loose), but locktite would stop a backout of tensioner bolt, or so I would hope, and you might have to shave a little off the eyelet insert so the lock tab would hold the other end in place. |
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Title: Re: Manual cam chain adjuster Post by verslagen1 on 01/10/14 at 08:17:46 66656D7B606D6C7B090 wrote:
If I remember correctly, the housing side is 10mm and the plunger side is 9mm. |
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Title: Re: Manual cam chain adjuster Post by verslagen1 on 01/10/14 at 08:35:22 02393423323E252338303D22510 wrote:
Currently, on the mileage champ, ~35k miles for ~13mm of plunger extension (assuming they start with 6mm extension) for 2700 miles per mm. Let's estimate we can double that to 5000 miles per mm. How much slop can we live with? That puts it right on par for the required cylinder head bolt retorqueing that we never do and clutch inspection/rod replacement that we might need to do. Quote:
I think I like this idea and can see an easier way to do it. Replace the stock pawl spring with a heavier one so the pawl will lock the plunger in place. Replace the shoulder bolt that ties the plunger to the front guide (tensioner) with one that has a pin extending to the case. make a formed wire that can be inserted thru the oil fill and grab that pin and give it a tug to extend the plunger. |
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Title: Re: Manual cam chain adjuster Post by youzguyz on 01/10/14 at 10:10:29 A thought.. from looking at pictures. Would it be possible to put the access hole to get to the adjuster inside the cavity where the oil filter is located? On the back wall? The access hole could be threaded like the oil filler plug to cap it. Or just a rubber cap? |
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Title: Re: Manual cam chain adjuster Post by verslagen1 on 01/10/14 at 10:49:18 if it were low pressure all the time, would be acceptable. but it goes to 50 psi at full speed. and having to deal with undetectable leaks I don't think it's a good idea. |
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Title: Re: Manual cam chain adjuster Post by youzguyz on 01/10/14 at 11:00:57 Threaded hole and plug should hold OK. But it could only be done by those with a large tap. The oil pressure would help hold the rubber plug in place. And the oil filter is sitting there so it can't back out. Sure, it might weep a bit, but just back into the crankcase. |
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Title: Re: Manual cam chain adjuster Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/10/14 at 12:20:52 We need an accurate lower case pressure. Someone needs to pull the oil plug & screw a pressure gauge into a bushing & see what pressure builds to at speed. It MITE be possible to build it so all the case requires is a window to run the adjuster thru, like drum brakes. If so, AND the pressure is low enough AND the case wall is strong enough to allow a window sliced, then those drum brake plugs are cheap & easy access.. |
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Title: Re: Manual cam chain adjuster Post by Dave on 01/10/14 at 12:32:48 I don't believe there is any reason to get into where the oil filter and pressure is - you could probably just put the hole in the offset where the filter cover is if you want to yank on the guide and tensioner plunger. That spot is not subject to the oil pressure - just the crankcase huffs and puffs of the running engine. I still would prefer just finding a way to lock and release the pawl. Put the larger spring in as Verslagen has suggested - then find a way to pull on the pawl to release it temporarily while you rotate the engine over a few tirmes......rather than pulling on the plunger. |
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Title: Re: Manual cam chain adjuster Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/10/14 at 12:42:24 Pull the oil fill plug & measure case pressure there. Unless we know how many PSI air builds to we dont know what its gonna take to close a hole. |
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Title: Re: Manual cam chain adjuster Post by Dave on 01/10/14 at 12:49:24 67787E7964635262526A78743F0D0 wrote:
I am not sure how you are going to measure that pressure......the pressure changes with each stroke of the piston. At 1,000 rpm the piston is going up and down 17 times a second....the pressure gauge is going to bounce around with it. The positive pressure is going to be limited to whatever is leaking past the piston as blowby, which will be quickly vented out the breather tube. The crankcase really only has a very small amount of pressure - but a whole lot of oil spray and vapors moving around. |
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Title: Re: Manual cam chain adjuster Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/10/14 at 13:37:25 Then my approach would be to build an adjuster that adjusts like a brake drum & slot the case for access & use a brake drum access plug. Mite even be able to start with a brake adjuster,, fine threaded,its got a "no back off" adjuster, I think theres room there for it, Id like to see a pretty stiff spring involved, so it could be a tad slack when its cold. |
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Title: Re: Manual cam chain adjuster Post by verslagen1 on 01/10/14 at 15:52:22 http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/3screws.JPG http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/paper_gasket.JPG Not easy to see with 2 odd scaled pic's. but the pawl is directly under the "U" in SUZUKI. An access port in the upper left corner under the filter cover would be under the housing to the left and below the pawl. |
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Title: Re: Manual cam chain adjuster Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/10/14 at 16:06:24 Can ya lay a side on its back & take a pic of the inside? Does the oil filter go on the end of the crank? Ive forgotten how it all fits. That pic is not encouraging, maybe access from the upper edge? Lookin like "straight in" would mean Thru the oil filter door.. HEY!,, Maybe pop the oil filter access off, & go in there?? |
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Title: Re: Manual cam chain adjuster Post by youzguyz on 01/11/14 at 06:53:04 495650574A4D7C4C7C44565A11230 wrote:
JOG, That's what I was trying to say. |
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Title: Re: Manual cam chain adjuster Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/11/14 at 07:12:57 Well!,,,, WHY didn ya SAY so? Huhh? Sorry dude,, sometimes Im just SLOW,, |
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