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Message started by Dave on 01/08/14 at 10:48:32

Title: Is the motorcycle market saturated?
Post by Dave on 01/08/14 at 10:48:32

On occasion I go to Craiglist and just poke around looking at the motorycles that are for sale. The Cincinnati version includes a large amount of land area and has pages and pages of motorcycles listed. If you are willing to drive 2 hours to pickup a bike you also can include the Lexington and Louisville, KY and the Dayton and Columbus, OH lists as well. There are thousands of motorycles to choose from - and most of the same bikes are on the site for as long as my memory and attention span can recall. There are usually about 10 - 15 Savages to choose from on these 5 lists, and if you have a bike like a Kawasaki 250 Ninja you can pick from a hundred of them......more models and years of Harleys than I can count.

If you are in the market to purchase a used bike......you have a great many bikes to choose from. It seems that we buy and drive our cars and keep using them until they are worn out and sent off for scrap.....or we trade it in on a new one and somebody else buys it and uses it up. For motorycles it seems that far less are used up and scrapped - they tend to be used for a while and then offered for sale when the owner wants a new one. Sure there are insurance company bikes that get written off - but most of them are recycled and put back on the market with Salvage titles or parted out to repair other bikes. Our Craigslist has a seller called Racer411 that offers salvage bikes almost exclusively.

I just can't help but believe that motorcycles sales have far outpaced the rate at which people can sustain it.....and that if you want to buy a bike you have a great chance of finding a nice one. If you are selling.......it can be really tough!

Title: Re: Is the motorcycle market saturated?
Post by Arnold on 01/08/14 at 11:25:53

Same for guitars, I used to sale on CL pretty often, now if you dont renew everyday your ads get so far down the pages that no ones ever sees them. A buyers market there too and my collection is growing but it's only good if you dont need cash.

Title: Re: Is the motorcycle market saturated?
Post by old_rider on 01/08/14 at 11:44:59

Yeah, I just dropped the price on the Harley site on my Road Glide another $500 and have not gotten any hits and i'm about 5 grand under list price for it.
Really tuff to sell right now. Folks want me to give it away, and that isn't going to happen.

Title: Re: Is the motorcycle market saturated?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/08/14 at 22:56:57

Wait for Sp[ring to sell bikes, winter for skis, summer for tennis rackets,

Title: Re: Is the motorcycle market saturated?
Post by jcstokes on 01/08/14 at 23:20:10

Since a lot of you guys can't ride in winter, JOG2 sums it up.

Title: Re: Is the motorcycle market saturated?
Post by Dave on 01/09/14 at 03:36:47

637C7A7D60675666566E7C703B090 wrote:

Wait for Sp[ring to sell bikes, winter for skis, summer for tennis rackets,

I realize the market is probably better for selling bikes when the grass is growing - but the same situation exists spring, summer and fall. There is a seemingly endless supply on Craigslist. Unless you have some really rare or unique bike - there are 20 other guys selling the exact same thing every day.

Title: Re: Is the motorcycle market saturated?
Post by WD on 01/09/14 at 11:43:27

The only bikes that sell with any rapidity down here seem to be Honda VLX600, Honda CMX450C, and Kawasaki VN800A models. The rest sit on the sites until the ad expires and doesn't get renewed, or in some cases, for years. I've seen the same overpriced Shovelhead chopper on Craigslist for over 2 years. $5500 is too much for a 1970s AMF oil leaker.

And you still literally can not give away a Savage/S40 down here. Scrappers don't even want them.

Title: Re: Is the motorcycle market saturated?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/09/14 at 11:53:53

I guess I scored big then. I sold mine to a guy who walked in the shop & saw it. Got $2,500.00 for it & all the accumulated goodies & special tools & stuff, including the shop manual,, I think he got a good deal, a fully sorted & tuned machine and the book? & spare parts & of course, me, for when its time to do anything to it, but he can pay for that..

Title: Re: Is the motorcycle market saturated?
Post by Dave on 01/09/14 at 13:55:53

One of the reasons I posted this, is that when I was looking for a road bike that I could put my wife on with me.....I just kept seeing the same bikes over and over and over. Some of them appeared to be good prices and in good shape - others were taped together basket cases. I was not sure what I wanted, a friend had suggested that the BMW K bikes were very reliable and although not flashy - they were a good value. I kept seeing really nice bikes week after week and they were very affordable. Then I wondered about the Kawasaki Concours, and looked at them for a while and once again, the same bikes were listed for months. I had also toyed with the idea of getting a 250 Ninja to keep for a year or two as they were darn cheap and I thought it would be fun to own one for a year and then move it - but there were so many of those for sale that I never was able to keep track of them and I suspected when it came time to sell it I would have to give it away. It just seemed to me that there were far more bikes than could ever be re-sold on the used market.

Title: Re: Is the motorcycle market saturated?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/09/14 at 14:42:41

Well,, that doesnt make buying to resell look great, but buying dirt cheap to keep? Sounds good,,Getchya one O them little Ningees,, ride the poo out of it,, watch the sale prices & once youve "enjoyed" it enough to be able to accept the dollar loss selling it would create, sell it.. You just "rented" a bike for a year or more,, for cheap., I hear they have a 300 out, so the 250's arent quite the hot ticket they were. You mite wait for the 300's to start hitting the For Sale column. Thatll drive the 250s down harder. They are good fun, from everything Ive heard. Dependable & solid, really good handling, just low on power. I call all that good. Takes skill to keep speed thru a corner when youre low on power,

Title: Re: Is the motorcycle market saturated?
Post by verslagen1 on 01/09/14 at 15:03:56

The BIL's concourse sees little action. and I've ridden it once around the block. I'd have to stretch the bars back so I could sit up and I'd have to find more room for my feet. I've heard they're top heavy, so once they start to go over... good luck bringing it back.

250's being bounced from newb to newb might not be a good buy unless you're comfortable with straightening it out. but it might be a good alternative to the savage for commuting as long as you don't have a lot of stop and go.

Title: Re: Is the motorcycle market saturated?
Post by Boofer on 01/09/14 at 20:02:13

I have been on CL about 4yrs buying and selling. A couple of yrs ago I started noticing the quality and high prices of cars and truckjs and the types were luxury. People have lost jobs, hours, interest income dwindled, etc. I think some are just selling for cash flow, and a motorcycle bought on a whim is not a necessitiy.
.

Title: Re: Is the motorcycle market saturated?
Post by old_rider on 01/10/14 at 05:08:42

250 ninja's a couple years old are really cheap here, I actually bought the wife a new one for 3,000 bucks, it was only 4 months old and had 400 miles on it.
She didn't like the way it sat when full of fuel it was a little awkward for her (top heavy).
I sold it for what I bought it for and got her the savage.
I myself have a 300 ninja and love the little thing, its a blast to ride and gets really good gas mileage, water cooled , fuel injected and low maintenance. The riding position is what I don't like on the really long rides, which is why i'm selling my Harley to buy a savage for me.
There are 2 LS650's on CL down here and one S40, priced from 1,500 to 2,400, the low priced one has a lot of case corrosion but is said to run really well, I've got to sell the Harley first, not enough room in the garage at the moment and don't want to store it outside.

Title: Re: Is the motorcycle market saturated?
Post by Dave on 01/10/14 at 05:31:49

I think the Ninja 300 is a far better bike in looks and performance than the 250 - but my goal at the time was just to have a really cheap bike to ride for a year or two and then get rid of. The 300's are affordable bikes....but not cheap. Ihave a young cousin that just bought a new 300 last summer and he gets bored with stuff really quickly.....so maybe that one will come along soon. He got a speeding ticket a few months ago and his motorycle insurance has been canceled.....so maybe it will be available sooner than expected!

Now that I have the ST1100 I am not looking for anything else at the moment. The amazing thing is that the used ST1100 bikes are very affordable - it is a whole lot of bike for not much money. I don't believe the bikes have a whole lot of personality to ride.....they just go and go for a lot of miles and thy are smooth and reliable......but not fast or nimble. I am out of the "buyers" market for a while and not visiting Craigslist much anymore. I will ride this for a year or two and see what happens next.....however my Cafe' Savage is still my bike of choice when riding solo around the local rural roads!

Title: Re: Is the motorcycle market saturated?
Post by old_rider on 01/10/14 at 05:38:43

Well, talk to his dad and bring the 300 over to your house so you can "keep it running good", until he figures out what to do with it. Ya know....since he got the ticket and can't insure it, will keep him from riding it and get in trouble....hint....hint... :D

Title: Re: Is the motorcycle market saturated?
Post by Dave on 01/10/14 at 05:42:00

51525A4C575A5B4C3E0 wrote:

Yep....I would also have him bring the stock exhaust over and take that loud thing off that he put on.....and then take the Power Commander off that he put on to stop the backfiring that showed up after he put on the new $ 800 exhaust.....Yada, yada, yada! Kids.....It was such a nice bike when he got it, and he almost instantly started bolting expensive stuff on it.

Title: Re: Is the motorcycle market saturated?
Post by old_rider on 01/10/14 at 06:08:01

Yup, he got online and had to keep up with all those other kids that bought them. I only added power adapters to mine, 12v marine plugs X2 and a six slot extra fuse box, so I wouldn't have to break into the bike harness.
Dang thing runs so good I don't see why they would even think of adding all the stuff they do. I guess if you got money extra because you didn't buy the 10,000 dollar one, you spend it elsewhere.

Title: Re: Is the motorcycle market saturated?
Post by seedubs1 on 01/10/14 at 16:43:23

I buy in the winter and sell in the spring, summer, and fall for bikes. It snows here in the winter, so there's not many buyers in the winter and there's tons for sale.

Just picked up a 2001 savage with 5900 miles on it in minty condition for $1400 (hence me being new to the forum ;D)

And you're right. Craigslistis a gold mine for buyers. Especially this time of year. If you can drive 2 hours, you can find a great bike for pennies.

Only downside is that selling is a pain. When I sold my gsxr and drz a couple years back, the craigslist sites were so inundated with bike sales that if you didn't relist every day or two, your post got completely buried. Not to mention the scammers, people who schedule to meet and don't show up just to waste your time, and the lowballers. Even when I had my bikes listed for super cheap, I'd get some idiot offering me $1k for a mint k6 gsxr 600. It's infuriating sometimes.

Title: Re: Is the motorcycle market saturated?
Post by Blinky-FSO on 01/10/14 at 17:44:20

Saturated? Probably so. Three reasons come to mind.

The number of low mileage bikes listed seems disproportional to bikes that reflect the mileage that you would expect for the model year. As an example, the 2007 C50 I bought in March of last year had a whopping 2,200 miles on the clock, less than 400 miles a year. There seem to be a lot of guys that have never ridden that buy a new bike then scare themselves or figure out it is hot, cold, or wet out there and then just park it in the garage until they get the nerve to tell the misses and try to sell it. How many times have you read in the ad that the seller "no longer has any time to ride"? A rider always has the time.

Then there are the riders that need to have a new one every few years. Lots of low mileage trade-ins for the shiny vanity bikes.

But maybe the main reason is the way we view bikes in the US. Now there are a fair number of riders on this forum and out in the real world that rack up enough miles to wear out the bike by commuting on their rides. However, most of us use them for recreation and would have a hard time racking up enough miles to use up the bike before we got tired of it and migrated to another bike. Again, as a personal example. I bought my first bike, a used 2007 S40 in February 2012. It had 3,200 miles on it when I bought it and 9,200 when I traded it in on a used 2007 C50 13 months later in March 2013. The C50 had 2,200 on it when I bought it and 7,500 on it now. I fully anticipate holding on to it for the 2014 riding season but have already convinced myself I need a better tour bike with ABS and alloy wheels when I retire and hit the road full time in 2016. So, there will probably be one more C50 for sale with less than 20,000 miles in the spring of 2016.

Sorry to be so longwinded but as an old sales/marketing/advertising guy, it is an interesting topic.

Good hunting

Title: Re: Is the motorcycle market saturated?
Post by seedubs1 on 01/10/14 at 18:12:35

You're right Blinky. There's no median. Bikes either get tons of miles put on them, or they sit in a garage unused. Like you said, lots of new riders get a bike, ride it a few times and scare themselves out of riding.

Any way you look at it, it's good for a lot of us who do ride. There's tons of cheap bikes out there with almost no mileage on them.

But it does suck for someone who racks up mileage to try to sell a bike. It's hard to sell one with 50,000 miles on it when there's 15 other bikes on craigslist that have under 10,000 miles on them. It's why a few guys I know have pretty much just succumbed to the fact that they're going to keep their bike until it goes to the salvage yard.

Title: Re: Is the motorcycle market saturated?
Post by Trippah on 01/10/14 at 20:28:48

I think the aging population, a lot of Harley Dressers going on the block as Gramps can't handle it anymore. Not so many young un coming on board for sports bikes, as a great number don't have jobs that cover rent, food, girl friend and bike. When I look at the number of Ducati Monsters for sale, egaaads. When on the WIldguzzi forum the question of number of bikes sold new in USA, the numbers are so small you wonder why they bother. :'(

Title: Re: Is the motorcycle market saturated?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/10/14 at 23:01:27

Just wait.. The continuing downturn of our economy is gonna drive prices Waaay down.. The only pressure is gonna be in the economy bikes prices. I expect to see the Kawa 250 bounce back up in value in 2 years, because it is so cheap to run & so bulletproof.