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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Cold belt...... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1388510840 Message started by raydawg on 12/31/13 at 09:27:20 |
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Title: Cold belt...... Post by raydawg on 12/31/13 at 09:27:20 I ride in winter out of need, and my belt makes one hell of a noise until it warms up. I know as fact when it was new (2 years ago) it didn't, so I believe a remedy lies somewhere out there. Any ideas wizards? and HAPPY NEW YEAR to all you savages :-* |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Serowbot on 12/31/13 at 09:39:46 What you need, is a belt warmer... :-?... ;D ;D ;D... |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by engineer on 12/31/13 at 09:56:57 Many maintain that the squeaking comes from the sides of the belt. Some claim good results by sanding the sides of the belt in order to expose fresh material as opposed to the aged and oxidized surface. I had a Ford with a serpentine belt that squealed like crazy on damp cool mornings to the point it was embarrassing. It was quickly fixed with a squirt of WD40. The permanent fix was achieved by buying a new belt. If it were mine, I would try lightly sanding the edges with medium emery cloth and if that didn't work I would lubricate the edges only with silicone. I wouldn't mess with the toothed part of the belt. |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Dave on 12/31/13 at 10:00:53 Make sure you are running the belt right down the center of the rear pulley. You should be able to see a gap on both sides. If you need to move the belt over.....loosen the axle and tighten the tensioner on the side you want it to move "away" from. If you want to keep the tension about the same - loosen the opposite side the same that you tighten the the other one. Repeat as necessary until you get it right.....if the belt is not touchin' the sides it should not be squeeking. |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by raydawg on 12/31/13 at 10:18:45 2A3C2B362E3B362D590 wrote:
Yeah....I wonder if they have a multi-purpose one that could warm belts and cold cun..... uh, you know what I mean :-* Thanks guys, I think therein a fix exist. I'll let you know :) |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by stinger on 01/02/14 at 02:45:04 Make sure your belt is not too tight. You should be able to bend it almost 90 degrees. |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by stinger on 01/02/14 at 02:49:09 I purchased one of Serowbots belt warmers and altho quite expensive at $125, he gave me a great deal at $75 if I paid the shipping. He is most thoughtful to all of the members in here and I'm sure he will cut you a great deal also! |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Serowbot on 01/02/14 at 07:56:46 Glad you like it, Sting... :-?... http://www4.images.coolspotters.com/photos/92113/bic-lighter-profile.gif |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Bubba on 01/06/14 at 07:36:37 Prior to getting the belt perfectly centered in the pulley I was using a block of parrafin wax on the edges of the belt...worked fine for a few days but centering the belt works better... |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by thumperclone on 01/07/14 at 23:56:47 I live on the west slope of the Colorado Rockies in a valley at 4500 can be up to 100 in the summer "down" here and ride up to 11,000 where it can be in the 40s.. belt twist, centering, are all up to specs but temp change during a ride here voids those paramerters silicon spray is my answer liquid wrench is the spray I have access to there are some old posts of riders using bees wax temp swings are the nemesis here |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by raydawg on 01/18/14 at 07:54:29 1C272A3D2C203B3D262E233C4F0 wrote:
Dave, I think you are right, as my belt lays up against one side. I tried your fix, but I am not centered, tho after a short ride I think the noise has abated. My question is, do you really have to tinker with it a lot to get it centered? I am using the notches on the frame to guide me, but of course that is not an exact science either.....small adjustments best, or lets say 5 turns to the adjusting bolt each time, or divide equally on both sides, one tighten, loosen the other side as you suggested? Thanks |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Dave on 01/18/14 at 08:03:23 Raydawg: You can use the notches to get you close, then if you have a jack and can get the rear wheel off the ground - you can make minor adjustments with the axle nut a bit loose and it only takes a few minutes to do some tweaking. You make a slight adjustment and rotate the wheel....and see where the belt moves. Once you fiddle a bit and get it centered, then you can tighten it and go for a ride and see if it stays in the center. |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by raydawg on 01/18/14 at 08:51:15 744F4255444853554E464B54270 wrote:
Ok, that makes sense, get the wheel off the deck, THANKS! |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by arteacher on 01/18/14 at 16:08:56 I use mustache wax. I made up a pint of it and heat it up to melt it and brush it on the belt. It is easy to make- 60% bees wax, 40% vaseline. It lasts about 4 months. |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/18/14 at 16:44:24 My Momma never had a problem with a cold belt. She knew just where to warm it up.. |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Serowbot on 01/19/14 at 01:09:02 Just what I need... ...a waxy mustache... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by raydawg on 01/19/14 at 15:29:34 5442554850454853270 wrote:
Gee.....that sounds like it would make it easier to slip off :-? OK, I did the loosen axle and tightened the side the belt was "rubbing" against, and backed off the same number on the opposite side, tightened all down, and spun the wheel. After moving 10 rotations in, and 10 out on the other side, I still can't get it centered, tho I do have gaps now on both sides, BUT....I am one complete notch off of the big notch (optimal center I guess) one forward of, the other side one behind.... Is this ok? Do I have a bad wheel, or? I have never dropped the bike or hit anything, could my spokes me amiss, not true? Seems to ride fine, the squeak is all gone....perhaps I need to quit reading Bot's paranoid post, as now I am freaking over...well hell, I don't even know, I guess I'm just a freak! :-* |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Serowbot on 01/19/14 at 15:51:00 ;D... no noise, no problem... ;)... |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by verslagen1 on 01/19/14 at 16:17:05 just as long as it's a even number mark you're fine. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/19/14 at 16:20:37 Put a string under the belt on the front pulley & roll it till the string is at the closest point to the motor. Run string back to rear pulley. If its cocked, it aint right, Thats how we lined up big pumps to their drive engines in the oil field,,& when youre runnin 4 to 6 or even 8 belts, its gotta be lined up or some will be slack, others tight. & You dont wanna belt comin off & kicking the others out & gettin mangled up,., |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Dave on 01/20/14 at 05:13:05 It is possible that the rear hub has too much wobble....and the pulley is not lned up with the rear wheel. I am not sure why the bearing and hub setup allow so much wobble. My bike is pretty low mileage, and I found that the rear hub had too much wobble. Grab your rear pulley and see if you can wobble it very much forward and back. If it moves a tiny bit....it is OK. If it has a lot of wobble, try cutting some shims to take up the extra play. I used some left over rubber floor mat that I bought at Lowe's. I put a small dab of RTV on the back of each one to hold it in place when it is being installed. Don't use something too thick, the hub still needs to be able to compress at the axle so that the bearings are all held tightly. |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by old_rider on 01/20/14 at 06:21:58 Dave... that pic always confuses me. Do you add the new rubber on top of the current rubber pieces? or on the struts like you have them in the picture? I am hoping on top of the rubber, because you have them shaped the same..... |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Dave on 01/20/14 at 06:40:26 2B2820362D202136440 wrote:
old_rider: If you saw the blades on the pully hub....the photo would not be confusing. The rubber pieces I cut span the space between the pulley hub blades......and the new piece sits on top of one half the original cushion and extends over to the adjoining cushion. If you look a the pieces at the direct bottom and bottom right in the photo....that is where the new pieces sit when installed. I left the other ones kind of random so people could see what was underneath them. |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Serowbot on 01/20/14 at 08:01:48 That's the same rubber matting that I made my tank stripe and knee pads from... I also resoled an old pair of boots with it... ;D... Handy stuff... :-?... http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/serowbot/vg005.jpg |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/20/14 at 10:19:24 & I tightened up the rubbers with strips of inner tube, too. What Dave is doing fills an important gap, I took out play in the rotation. I wish I had done what he did AND what I did. |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Dave on 01/20/14 at 10:39:06 I really don't understand why there is not some form of "bearing" interconnection between the pulley hub and wheel hub? The outstide of the pulley hub has a bearing so that it can stay centered and rotate along the axle - but the back portion of the pulley hub is unsupported except of the interplay with the rubber cushions. I understand the goal of the rubber cushions is to allow the hub to rotate a bit and take up some shock - but there should be a bearing or bushing on the backside of the pulley hub that aligns the pully hub with the wheel hub....while still allowing some rotation (not wobble)? The tension of the belt tends to make the pulley "lean" forward....which will make the belt slide toward the outside of the pulley. |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Serowbot on 01/20/14 at 10:42:43 79424F5849455E58434B46592A0 wrote:
This is the reason I don't bother with the "belt alignment"... It's gonna' move... I just align the wheel... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by verslagen1 on 01/20/14 at 11:23:53 467D7067767A61677C747966150 wrote:
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by diamond jim on 01/20/14 at 11:43:24 Centering worked best for me with the rear tire off the ground, adjust, start engine, put it in first and watch the belt. Fine tune as needed then tighten it all up. Is there any benefit to taking the belt off and soaking it overnight in some type of solution to add lubricity to the belt? Not sure what just wondering. |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/20/14 at 14:20:08 I wouldnt go there, BUT, If ya do ever pull the belt, mark it & put it back on so its working the same way.,may not matter, but, its cant be a bad idea. |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by raydawg on 01/21/14 at 16:19:06 OK......the grand finale :o Rode today, to work. Right outta the stall in upper 30's not a peep outta her, could even hear the whirl of the belt working, which I recall on my very first "test" ride on her with ZERO miles. Belts have a distinct sound, almost like the belt noise on a turbo. Got up to 70 for a short stint, all is good! Could be my imagination, not sure, but it seems my rear brake has less travel in it now too.... I don't use it very much. Thanks for the help all! :D |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by engineer on 01/21/14 at 19:21:54 Congratulations Raydawg on the great fix. Maybe I missed some of the progress but exactly what did you do to it to make the improvement? Way back on page 1 of this thread you were planning to center it per Dave's instructions. Is that what you did? |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by raydawg on 01/22/14 at 03:59:40 Yes...exactly as Dave said to do.....but I also let bot wax himself too! :-* |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Dave on 01/22/14 at 05:13:28 32213924213727400 wrote:
If you moved the right side of the axle back - you would have tightened up the brake cable a bit. Make sure that there is still a bit of free play in the brake cable.....back the adjusting nut off a little bit if you want the feel where it used to be. |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by raydawg on 01/22/14 at 17:51:55 655E5344555942445F575A45360 wrote:
If you moved the right side of the axle back - you would have tightened up the brake cable a bit. Make sure that there is still a bit of free play in the brake cable.....back the adjusting nut off a little bit if you want the feel where it used to be.[/quote] Again Dave, you nailed it.....but I do have free play, not much, but it works fine, thanks! |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Dave on 02/16/14 at 17:32:19 I am dragging this thread back up to the top for a bit.....to discuss the fit between the pulley hub and wheel hub, and to discuss the wobble. I took my rear wheel apart today and looked at the fit between the pulley and wheel hubs. The pulley hub does have a machined stub that slides into a machined bore just outside the bearing on the wheel hub. The outside of the pulley hub has a bearing......so with the inside and outside of the pulley hub being supported it should not wobble. The problem is that the outside diameter of the pulley hub is 1.806" where it slides into rear wheel hub - which has a 1.838" inside diameter. The fit is a loose 0.032"....which is enough to allow a wobble. For the moment the rubber floor mat cut into pieces may be the best solution until somebody tries making a bushing to tighten up the fit between the two hubs. |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Oldfeller on 02/16/14 at 18:39:41 Yes, the inner race of the pulley bearing is both totally trapped and 100% aligned by the big bolt and wheel bearings, inner spacers, brake hub, outer spacers, etc. When you clinch the big bolt and nut down, you are putting tons of clamp pressure on the inner races -- they aren't moving around like you might think they are. What allows the "lateral movement" of the rear pulley to the degree you actually see it is the radial and lateral clearances in the ball bearing itself, expressed out over the radial distance from balls and races out to the rim of the big pulley. It gets a multiplier projection effect which only gets larger as the bearing gets some wear on it. By using the rubber mat pieces, you are trying to stop the total range of motion permitted by the inner race/balls/outer race clearances from totally expressing itself. You are also putting a slight side load on the ball bearing system which will wear in to accommodate it eventually. It is a good trick ...... but misalignment and noise will still occur on occasion as your matting wears to allow it (or your bearings wear, take your pick). Another path to take is to BEVEL the tooth portion of the belt with an angle grinder at 10-15o angle, removing more material at the tips of the belt teeth and stopping the grind marks when they reach the relatively thin but wide corded portion of the belt. Also using the grinder to very lightly bevel the burr edge of the inner edge of the stamped steel guide plate is also a good idea since burrs on that stamped surface can cause noise and excessive belt side wear. Kissing off the stamped steel flat guide on the inner edge of the big and little pulleys and beveling the TEETH portion of the belt itself yields a system that does not make noise and that can withstand misalignment without getting indigestion and making noise all the time. Some of us use really FAT tires, and we have to do some fairly severe intentional misalignment of the belt system in order to get it all to fit in the space provided. We have learned how to run a misaligned belt without it making noise all the time. Check it out this summer on the trip, I have run so misaligned for so long the teeth on my big pulley have a positively crooked wear pattern to them, yet no belt noise .... |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Oldfeller on 02/16/14 at 18:56:39 And now, for the lasting enjoyment of all the meticulous belt tracking tuners out there .... Jack it up and crank it up and get it to tracking perfectly in first or second gear the way you think it ought to be ..... Be meticulous, like you always are .... get her plumb perfect, jest the way you like it .... Now put your bike in neutral and turn the rear wheel backwards 10 times by hand to simulate a deceleration load from rolling off the throttle abruptly (or down shifting and decelerating). Sucker goes flying over to the other shoulder within a turn or two, don't it? Builds up a bit of pressure by the 5th or 6th turn, don't it? Won't track worth squat in decelerate mode if you tune it to perform perfectly in accelerate mode, huh ??? Now that you know this factoid, be mindful of when your belt actually squeaks on you mostly. Acceleration or deceleration? Heavy throttle or slowing to a stop? So, which surfaces and belt edges are actually doing the rubbing/squeaking? Durn, it makes you think some, don't it? Have you ever looked for burrs on the flat stamped parts on your smaller front pulley? It plays on the front side too, you know. Your pulley system does this sort of stuff on you all the time ..... moving from rubbing on one side over to rubbing on the other side. ::) Hint: Bevel your belt's tooth edges (both sides) and bevel the inner edge of the stamped steel part of the rear pulley and on the front pulley too, lube her up good with your favorite wax or silicone and be done with the issue permanently. |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Dave on 02/17/14 at 05:32:13 I agree that the inner races of the wheel bearings are all locked into place when you crank down on the axle nut......they aren't going anywhere. I also agree that the 3 outer bearing races rotate around the axle at the same rotational speed as the wheel - with the exception of a tiny movement of the pulley hub forward/backward as the rubber cushions are compressed under acceleration or engine braking. I also agree that the 2 wheel hub bearings are tight....and not moving around. I also agree that the rubber floor mat spacers are taking up play and placing some pressure on the pulley hub bearing.....although I am not sure it is more pressure than the wobbly pulley places on the bearing as the belt pulls the pulley out of alignment with the rear wheel. The pulley hub bearing is also a tight interference fit in the pulley hub and it is not moving around. And I also agree that this pulley bearing is subject to becoming a bit loose as it gets miles on it. The point I am trying to make is that the "wobble" that occurs at the rear pulley is not an ideal situation. It causes the pulley hub to continually move out of alignment with the rear wheel when the bike is moving....the pulley hub is acting like a Univeral Joint. If the pulley hub and wheel hub had a tighter fit where the two slip together....maybe even a bushing to prevent the two pieces of aluminum from galling, the pulley hub wobble would not exist. As built, the pulley hub is placing an eccentric load on the pulley hub bearing without the benefit of adequate support from the wheel hub. |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Oldfeller on 02/17/14 at 09:50:21 Yep to all of that. That is a very nice summary of the design and its limitations. Point I was trying to make is that folks who "adjust the tracking of the belt" using the axle adjusters when the wheel is being driven forward by the motor are missing half the action --- and indeed they are setting themselves up for trouble when decelerating. Mine always squeaked pretty good on deceleration because it had a strong decel bias because I had set the tracking up only when accelerating. MMRanch was the first one to tell me about beveling the belt edges, I tried it and it worked. :) Now I don't have to sweat the adjustment of the rear wheel to suit the pulley tracking, instead I can go for my best wheel alignment and not have to worry about "belt tracking" at all. (for me best wheel alignment includes a lot of oddball concerns you don't likely have, such as keeping the belt from hitting the guard and the tire from hitting the swing arm) |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by verslagen1 on 02/17/14 at 10:00:10 I have a feeling some are having issues either with mfg tolerances or bent swingarm. Since there's a bearing on the pulley, it's being held in position with the spacers and hub. Maybe the bearing should be a tapered bearing. Anybody know what kind of bearing is in the pulley? |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Dave on 02/17/14 at 10:24:25 Verslagen: The pulley bearing is a simple ball bearing......located just about inline with the center of the pulley. What was a surprise to me however is that the backside of the pulley hub has a machined stub that slides inside the wheel hub - the problem is there is too much clearance to keep the pulley hub in alignment. As Oldfellor commented - the pulley bearing initially takes the load and keeps things pretty straight until it gets some wear. I will get some photos tonight. |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Oldfeller on 02/17/14 at 10:41:33 It is a single row caged ball bearing, a LARGE one so it has some inherit ability to "pivot" built into it's ball race clearances. What we call side to side movement is actually a pivot motion, a linearly extended magnification of what the inner and outer races are able to do offset to each other (the balls have some clearance in them to the races after all). Inner race is trapped, but both it and the top race have clearance to the balls. The top race is trapped by the pulley but the whole affair can rock back and forth some. Normally, the rubber bumpers don't interfere with this motion as they only buffer back and forth. |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Dave on 02/18/14 at 06:25:28 This is a photo of the rear wheel hub. The wheel bearing is pushed into the wheel hub, and the same bore that the wheel bearing slides down is the receiving bore for the extension of the back side of the pulley hub. http://i57.tinypic.com/2805g06.jpg This is the backside of the pulley hub. The extension in the center with the machined surface slides into the wheel hub......Loosely. If the fit were tighter, it would eliminate the ability for the pulley hub to wobble. (The metal axle spacer is removed for this photo so you can see the backside of the bearing on the other end of the pulley hub). http://i59.tinypic.com/15hk45y.jpg This is the outside of the pulley hub. The rubber seal is just outside the bearing that rides on the axle shaft. http://i57.tinypic.com/2881a55.jpg It would not be ideal to install a bushing in the wheel hub to take up the extra clearance - as you would have to remove it to replace a wheel bearing (It is also impossible to put the entire rear wheel in a normal sized lathe to make a bushing). It therefore would be best to make a bushing to fit onto the pulley hub. |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Oldfeller on 02/18/14 at 09:19:19 OK Dave, put the through axle bolt through all the spacers and clinch it up tight -- can the "extension in the center with the machined surface slides into the wheel hub......Loosely" move any laterally at all or is it supported internally by the axle OD and compression bound to the inner bearing race and other inner bearing race OD sized spacers on either side to make a clamped-together very firm assembly? Yes, it has some room left for it to rock on the bearing -- the motion of the bearing rock could be stopped by the decreasing the defined clearance space you refer to to keep the pulley from rocking as much. But might that space be there to keep the ball bearing from getting damaged by pinching the balls and busting the race due to axle nut clamp up pressure if that surface were do drag during assembly? Thinking about it simplistically, if the spacers and bearing races weren't allowed to 100% stack up correctly (say by that flange dragging) then a ball bearing could get destroyed by compression forces when you clinched the nut up tight. Certainly the wheel would not be free rotating for long if a bearing was put under any sort of strong side load for any reason. Me, I think the rear pulley is allowed BY DESIGN to rock on the ball bearing some, making a broad but pretty short arc out at the belt end of the rear pulley rock motion. If Suzuki left room in the "extension in the center with the machined surface slides into the wheel hub......Loosely" to allow the bearing clearance rocking/pivot motion, well, they might possibly think they are preserving the pulley bearing's life from some sort of loading that they thought might be adverse to the life of the bearing? ================ But in the end we are all saying the same thing, the rear pulley by design moves freely side to side in a short arc, and that arc tells the belt to track from one side to the other which is determined by whether it is accelerating or decelerating at the time. Rubbing of the entire flat side surface of the toothed belt across a flat side of a pulley flange makes a really irritating squeak sound, yep it does. We all agree on that point, I think. So, Dave has arranged to decrease the range of his arc by stuffing some extra material inside the hub. He accepts that he is perhaps side loading his pulley bearing slightly by doing so but he has decreased the side to side arc and improved his tracking. (tracking error being a thing which can aggravate the squeak condition) Oldfeller and MM have added a loading ramp to the belt edge and added some deburring and a bit of infeed ramp to the small and large pulley. Because their belts can load and unload freely now and only rest on the flange on the thin wide fiber-filled section of the belt their noise has abated permanently. (and the broad plastic teeth on the belt no longer rub the sides of anything to make that aggravating squeak sound) :D Two different ways to skin the cat -- anybody got a third way to skin the kitty? |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Serowbot on 02/18/14 at 09:36:32 Here's a pic of the amount of bevel I put on my belt... It's been running like that for 25k miles, so there's no harm... I used an angle grinder with the rear wheel lifted, and spun the belt around by hand... (it ain't too pretty, but it does quite it down)... http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/serowbot/belt2.jpg |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Oldfeller on 02/18/14 at 09:51:33 Mine has a more shallow angle and I stopped at the root of the tooth (only the flat wide part was left unsanded). You can see from the rough grind marks that your belt wasn't very tight when you ground it, and it wasn't moving very fast either. Using a sanding disc on the same grinder can give a smoother surface. Still, the free load and unload bevel action does stop the flat side squeak, now don't it ..... ================== Here is a pic of an old, many miles side ground belt, showing all the polish that takes place as the miles roll past. It also shows the Bando belt's original construction style, the cloth supported tooth surface, the raw plastic inner core of the teeth (the part that makes the squeak) and the cord and fabric nature of the thin flat section that carries the load. Sero, your belt looks a bit like a toothed rubber belt ??? http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/DSCF00162.JPG |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by verslagen1 on 02/18/14 at 10:22:03 beveled by mishap... the lower belt guard was kicked in causing the belt to bevel. |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Serowbot on 02/18/14 at 16:53:23 11323A383B32323B2C5E0 wrote:
Nope,.. mine's the same,.. you just can't see any of the cord in that particular spot... it is showing a bit in some others... I think I didn't grind as deeply as you did... |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by raydawg on 02/19/14 at 03:57:20 I have come to find body fluids work very well in quieting it down, and I don't have to run back into the house to empty before I mount, a twofer sorta ;D |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Dave on 02/19/14 at 05:26:37 Last night I was thinking about how to make a bushing.....and I got thinking about some very sturdy aluminum tape I have. The tape is made for sealing duct work, and it is fairly thick aluminum with an adhesive and a paper backing. You peel the paper off and stick the alumunum on the duct joint. Since the interface between the pulley hub and wheel hub is a broad area the load will not be spread out uniformly - it might be possible just to use this tape and a little grease or sticky chain wax to take up the extra clearance. |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Oldfeller on 02/19/14 at 05:44:57 Tape would be good in that if you got some sudden spot load the tape could give a little and let the balls and the race survive the spot load. I like Dave's very meticulous, very thorough approach to things. His bike is wonderful for having a variety of neat tricks, clean executions and completely reliable performance. His is the only frankie bike that "just runs like Linux" and looks like a million dollars while doing so. ..... and that is high praise coming from me |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Dave on 02/28/14 at 05:39:46 Well Oldfellor was right. The bearings from 2 of the pulley hubs I have are from bikes with unknown mileage, and they do have some noticeable play in them. The bearings have been subject to some eccentric loads while in use, and they have developed some clearance and wobble that is probably not in a new one. I have a low mileage bearing in the pulley hub that is from my bike....and I may buy a new bearing if they aren't horribly expensive. The pulley hub bearing is about twice the size of the wheel bearings. http://i61.tinypic.com/5dqook.jpg I bought some brass from Online Metals to make a bushing for the pulley hub. My goal is to make the fit between the wheel hub and pulley hub one that will not allow the pulley to wobble and wear out the bearing. This brass has a 2" OD and a 1.75" Id. http://i62.tinypic.com/68bins.jpg I then mounted my pulley hub on the lathe and machined the hub so the 1.75" brass ID would be a tight fit onto the pulley hub. http://i61.tinypic.com/2j0cm1l.jpg Then I installed the brass and machined it to be around 1.784", which is a slide in fit into the wheel hub. http://i57.tinypic.com/2l978gl.jpg I will put the bearing and seal back in the pulley hub, then fit it back into the wheel hub to see if the wobble is gone. I currently have all the rubber spacers out of the wheel hub so I can check the fit without the rubber interfering with the results. It does look like this will go a long way toward eliminating the wobble, and keeping the pulley hub bearing tight for a lot more miles. |
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Title: Re: Cold belt...... Post by Dave on 03/03/14 at 06:15:01 I was able to get things back together this weekend. I stopped by the local auto parts store and got a brand new bearing. The pulley hub bearing is a 25x62x17 and the auto store got me a brand new one for $ 8.10 including tax....the factory part is almost $ 30. The bearing they got me is a sealed bearing from Federated, Part number PTC 305ss....works for me! With it all bolted together in the bike - the pulley wobble is completely gone! I can rotate the pulley just a tiny amount and feel the rubber snubbers come into contact with the pulley hub, which confirms the pulley hub can freely rotate as it should - but it does not wobble anymore. I think this fix will work great - now it is in the durabitiy testing stage. Maybe brass is not the right thing to use as a bushing with aluminum and a harder metal would have been better - but a few hundred miles and I should be able to tell. If it works this is a great solution for anyone with access to a lathe. The brass was only a couple of dollars from Online Metals - getting access to a lathe is the only difficult part of this fix. |
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