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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Uh oh! Exhaust header bolt. /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1385322242 Message started by nrausch on 11/24/13 at 11:44:01 |
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Title: Uh oh! Exhaust header bolt. Post by nrausch on 11/24/13 at 11:44:01 Greetings gents! So now that the cold has arrived in the northeast I have started the long list of things I wanted to do to Suzy throughout the year. She's a 2003 we have had for a year or so. - I bought a dyna muffler a few months ago - I bought a versy cam chain tensioner - switching the oil from Mobil tvwin synth to rotella T 6 - needed to replace front brake cable. No problem. So my entire muffler was rusted. Finally with tons of wd40 specialist penetrant I was able to get it removed. If you have not tried this stuff I highly recommend it. The liquid wrench stuff would not do the job. Taking off the two header connection bolts, one of them snapped off. I think it may have been stripped going in last time someone removed it. It came out half way then just locked up. Then snapped. Dooougghhhh! I went ahead and did the versy cam chain tensioner with no issue. It was great to open up the clutch cover, because in my mind everything In there was rusty and worn out. But alas in reality it looked well oiled, hermetically sealed and factory beautiful. Except the factory cam chain tensioner which was darn near done and close enough to popping out, that I was glad I didn't wait any longer! I was finAlly able to separate the header pipe from the factory muffler using tons of wd40 penetrant and a rubber mallet. So now I can follow the instructions for putting the dyna on. However, I'm stuck with this broken bolt. Where the header meets the block. I started drilling it out, but am afraid that at the accessible angle I might accidentally drill into the block. I have already ordered 2 new replacement bolts from bandit. Along with a new gasket. Has anyone been in this predicament? Is there anything else I can try before I have to trailer the bike to a shop with my tail between my legs and pay more to have it fixed that I payed for the bike itself? Any help appreciated. Thanks! |
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Title: Re: Uh oh! Exhaust header bolt. Post by verslagen1 on 11/24/13 at 12:07:08 I would recommend talking to a shop before going any further. most likely they'll want the head off the bike to work on it. so you can save yourself some money by removing it yourself. ask and decide upfront. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh! Exhaust header bolt. Post by Dave on 11/25/13 at 05:23:26 I am with Verslagen on this one. The only way to get this out reliably is to mount it on a milling machine or drill press and do it right. Any attempt to do it by hand will likely not succeed. If the bolt is so tight that it snapped off the original bolt......you are not likely to get it out with an easy out. The bolt will have to be drilled hollow and the thread collapsed into the hole.....not easily done by hand. If the threads cannot be saved, then an insert will be necessary, and there is not much room to play with. You might also consider a replacement cylinder......they are not horribly expensive for a good used one, and you might find one cheaper than the cost of the machine shop work. Dave |
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Title: Re: Uh oh! Exhaust header bolt. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/25/13 at 07:40:21 It came out half way then just locked up. Then snapped. Dooougghhhh! Locked up? Wouldnt screw back in? If you didnt try to go back in, squirt the oil to it, then work it out & in & out & in,, you didnt go at it quite right. Ive seen even that fail, but thats the best way to try. & Yes, thats a skinny little bolt, pretty deep threads, odds of drilling that free hand? OHH not good..machine shop time |
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Title: Re: Uh oh! Exhaust header bolt. Post by Serowbot on 11/25/13 at 09:11:46 A pic would help... is the bolt snapped flush?, or is there any sticking up?... |
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Title: Re: Uh oh! Exhaust header bolt. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/25/13 at 15:27:01 No kidding! If youve got enough to get ahold of, put a penetrating oil on & try to go in with it. Get it turning back & forth, keep it well oiled & work it till ya win,, IF you spun it fast & it was hard, it may have galled the threads.. Thats death to getting it out. Youd be amazed at how much heat is created on a surface like that. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh! Exhaust header bolt. Post by Badass94Cad on 11/25/13 at 15:55:55 If you have some bolt to grab onto, then do as Justin said. Or, you could weld a nut onto it and use that. Works better than Vise Grips, if you have access to a welder. If it broke flush with the head, the same thing happened to me - click the link. (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1375534214/0#0) I ended up drilling it out, re-tapping the hole, and using some studs and nuts instead of new bolts. 8-) Good luck! |
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Title: Re: Uh oh! Exhaust header bolt. Post by Badass94Cad on 12/02/13 at 09:23:34 Any luck? |
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Title: Re: Uh oh! Exhaust header bolt. Post by nrausch on 12/08/13 at 20:15:27 Thanks all for the advice. In short, no luck. The bolt had snapped unevenly, and not even flush with the hole. it's a bit recessed and the first few threads of the hole are exposed and trashed. So attaching a nut, vise grips, or anything else was impossible. It looks like the threading is all jacked up inside too. Guessing that happened on the way in and that it stripped going in and some muscle man just powered it in. Drilling it out failed horribly. I'm sure I made it even worse. IF the hole is completely trashed, and I managed to drill out and extract the remnants of the bolt, is there still a way to do what you did in your post? http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1375534214/0#0 Thanks again! |
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Title: Re: Uh oh! Exhaust header bolt. Post by S-P on 12/09/13 at 19:04:38 Have you looked at an "easy out"? I'd flood the bolt a few times with a mix of 50-50 automatic tranny fluid and acetone and let it sit. (You can get a quart of acetone at Home Depot for about 7 bucks). It works 5x better than WD40 at penetrating threads. If you can get it backed out you might be able to drill and tap a new set of threads in it. Good luck. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh! Exhaust header bolt. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/09/13 at 21:54:23 Seriously, if you have no experience in this area, the odds of you winning & not tanking the head go way down, I think youd be ahead to stop trying to fix it & take it to a machine shop.,. At least go visit with someone, take pics. Ride around, look for a shop that does engines, hope to see one with a bike parked out front, Youd be surprised how easy goin some of those guys are.. Not that theyre likely to do it for free, but theyll give ya clues & tell you if they need the head off the engine if you cant do it. , etc,, One thing about it, as long as you get a stud in close to "On-Line" with the original, it otta work,,If you have to drill out the collar & go a little bigger with a stud, I dont see that as a big deal, You CAN win it, but I wouldnt even try it in the frame,, Get that thing out where you can get youself positioned & drill strait down, Empty the oil, stand it up. Build whatever you have to build to support it, The penetration oil mix( tranny fluid/acetone) is supposed to be better than anything you can buy, Acetone evaporates, so mix small amounts. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh! Exhaust header bolt. Post by old_rider on 12/09/13 at 23:31:36 I'm thinkin' about now a picture (or two) would be worth a thousand words and maybe get a little more input. Sounds like you got the bolt out but are not sure wether to re-tap the hole or drill it out and helicoil it. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh! Exhaust header bolt. Post by Dave on 12/10/13 at 15:22:48 There is only one way that I can think of to do the work on the bike without taking the engine out. I started to type it all out - but then if you don't have the tools I would be wasting a lot of time typing. If you have access to a drill press, and a lathe, and the proper drills, taps and insert tools - you can make a jig to drill the hole in the proper place. It would involve making a plate that can be bolted to the remaining stud, and the plate would use the exhaust port and the remaning stud to positively locate the point to drill out the existing bolt. The plate would be made with a threaded boss over the bad stud. First you would thread in a piece that has a 1/8" hole in the center....and you would drill a 1/8" hole down the center of the broken stud. Then you would remove that piece and thread in an insert with a hole that allows you to drill just slightly smaller than the stud, and hope you can pick out the remaining thread pieces. If that doesn't work, then you drill it oversize and put in a proper thread repair insert. You need the tapping tool and inserts. If you can find a machine shop to do this for you.....they might be able to do it with the engine still in the frame. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh! Exhaust header bolt. Post by nrausch on 12/11/13 at 08:13:57 old_rider: the bolt is certainly not out. I'll try the penetrant mix and an easy out. I'll get some pix this weekend when I get back to the garage. I'll try to get an estimate from a shop this weekend too. Not giving up yet but... How crazy would this be if all else fails: - Use the existing bolt on one side, then weld the pipe on. Hopefully get two more years out of the bike without needing to remove the pipe or open the clutch cover. Then scrap the bike for parts or give it to someone and let them know about the issue and that they would need to replace the parts. OR better yet… weld in a threaded stud that I can nut from the outside so the pipe could be removed if needed? |
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Title: Re: Uh oh! Exhaust header bolt. Post by S-P on 12/11/13 at 08:28:42 Welding the pipe on gives me the shivers! Something cheap could go wrong in the clutch case and yer screwed and looking at a whole new bike or engine. :o |
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Title: Re: Uh oh! Exhaust header bolt. Post by oldNslow on 12/11/13 at 08:57:14 Quote:
The head is aluminum and the pipe is steel. Don't think welding the pipe in is possible anyway unless you mean just welding it to the one bolt that is still intact. Not a good idea IMO. Tapping the hole for an exhaust stud is a possible solution though, once you get the broken bolt out. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh! Exhaust header bolt. Post by Dave on 12/11/13 at 08:59:12 Perhaps the best "stab" would be to get it to someone with some decent tools and skills. I know that I could make something work - but I betcha I would have about 4-6 hours in it. I seriously doubt that you are going to have any luck getting the piece out with an "easy out" or extractor. Those work great when the bolt was sheared off or worn through - but not so well when the bolt broke off because it is stuck to tight that it breaks the original bolt off while trying to remove it. It is stuck tight, galled, or cross threaded. The best "home remedy" that I can think of is to drill the broken off piece as best you can in the center, and as straight as you can. If you can't centerpunch and get a drill started in the center....then use a Dremel and a small stone or cutter until you can get a drill to start in the center. Then drill a small hole, and keep increasing the drill size until you have made a large enough hole that you have hit some threads. Then take a punch and try to collapse the bolt inside the hole. If that doesn't work - use the Dremel and work on getting the thick side of the stud weakend until you can collapse the stud and get it out. Then run a tap in to clean up the threads. If the threads cannot be cleaned up and you can manage to get a stud threaded into the hole.....forget using the original bolt and insert a threaded stud, and use a nut on the stud to hold the exhaust in place. And lastly, if you can't get the threads clean, drill a bit oversize and either have someone install a thread repair insert or use the next size metric or US thread and tap the new hole and drill out the header flange hole. You really, really, really need to get a good mechanic or machinist to help you......you need tools and experience to make this have a happy ending. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh! Exhaust header bolt. Post by verslagen1 on 12/11/13 at 09:02:14 6C70637771616A020 wrote:
certainly the better of the 2 options certainly make you wonder why this isn't done from the factory. a couple of noncorrodium studs and you'd be set for life. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh! Exhaust header bolt. Post by nrausch on 12/15/13 at 11:14:27 Final Update! I finally got all the pieces of the bolt out using a right angle dremel type tool with various tiny drill bit sizes, re-tapped the hole (Which was TRASHED). I got the cam chain tensioner mod, the dyna muffler mod, new gasket on the clutch cover (Which may have fixed a very minor oil leak), and switched up to Rotella based on the high recommendations on this forum. I ran around the neighborhoods for a while, then jumped on the highway for a bit. Other than the smoke from all of the oil, penetrant, wd40, etc burning off the engine… she is running like a champ and best of all SOUNDS LIKE A REAL MOTORCYCLE! The factory muffler had kind of a lawnmower/ chirping sound. Next, I'll tackle the oil leak coming from that pesky plug on the top of the head. I'm thinking it's the one everyone here talks about being a common leak. I was back-burnering it, but it seems to be getting worse. Thank you all SO MUCH for your patience and advice. It really empowered me to keep going and git r' done! Happy Holidays all! |
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Title: Re: Uh oh! Exhaust header bolt. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/15/13 at 11:52:49 Dude! I am Proud of you! That took guts. & some serious Getting down there & gettin on it. YOu must have young bones,, Anyway, Im impressed. You dint come across as someone with much experience with a problem like this AND where it was made it even harder And, couple that with the consequences of failure, Im shocked you stayed in it, Congratulations, Man,,Im impressed & happy for you. Youll learn to stop cranking when a bolt stops. Go back in, add penetrating oil & work in & out & in & out & add oil & watch it,, Once it becomes clear its NOT coming out, you have the option to cut it off instead of twist it off. At least then ya have a flat to work with. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh! Exhaust header bolt. Post by nrausch on 12/15/13 at 16:06:31 Here she is... back in bizness! |
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Title: Re: Uh oh! Exhaust header bolt. Post by S-P on 12/16/13 at 08:06:44 Awesome! There's nothing like putting your bike back together and hitting that starter button with fear and trepidation and hearing it fire up. Hard lessons learned along the way, but congratulations on gutting it out and figuring it out! |
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