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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> How to use front brake - 101 /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1383844945 Message started by Afan on 11/07/13 at 09:22:24 |
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Title: How to use front brake - 101 Post by Afan on 11/07/13 at 09:22:24 Hi guys. I bought and started riding my bike in May. Already have over 3K miles. I really enjoy my bike. Though, I already dropped my bike twice. Both times no broken bones nor anything else bad. Just couple bruises. Both times the speed was really low. First time maybe 5mph. Second time a little bit faster, maybe 15 mph, changing lane while slowing down because of red light on crossing. Both times the reason is I hit front break hard and locked the wheel while turning left (right). I know it's basic NO NO in a book how to ride a bike. Now, I need suggestion how to "teach" myself to stop using front brake. I mean to stop automatically, muscle memory wise, reach for the break. Usually, when I "know" what am I doing, I use rear break first and if I need I would apply front break too, together with rear break. And keep my bike straight. I was even thinking to disengage front break to be sure I'm not gonna use it at the wrong time :D Thanks for any suggestion. |
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Title: Re: How to use front brake - 101 Post by oldNslow on 11/07/13 at 09:56:00 Quote:
You don't want to "teach"yourself to stop using the front brake. You need to teach yourself to use it properly. You need to learn to apply the front brake by progressivly squeezing the lever rather than just grabbing it and locking the wheel, especially at low speeds. Disconecting the front brake is a really bad idea IMO. 75% or more of the braking capacity of a motorcycle comes from the front brake. If you only use the rear brake you will dramatically increase your stopping distance in an emergency situation. Quote:
You should be using both brakes at the same time in most situations. Find an empty parking lot and practice stopping as fast as you can from 10 or 15 MPH using both brakes at the same time until you get comfortable doing a max effort stop at that speed without locking either wheel. Then try the same stops using just the rear to prove to yourself that what I'm telling you is correct. Better yet, find an MSF class near you and take it. |
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Title: Re: How to use front brake - 101 Post by danjray on 11/07/13 at 10:08:19 oldNslow is fully correct, not using your front brake is a recipe for disaster you should use both brakes every time so your muscle memory is to use both. This way in an emergency you don't have to think about braking, you just do it properly. |
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Title: Re: How to use front brake - 101 Post by ZAR on 11/07/13 at 10:16:51 Afan I rarely use the REAR brake! Almost all of my braking is done with the front brake unless I'm in gravel or on wet roads. Like oldNslow says,it's about progressivly applying the brake. Just like letting out the clutch,it's not an "all at once" kind of thing. And just to make things clear...I was once one of the people that refused to use the front brake... Heck, I had several bikes back in the old days that didn't even have a front brake on them! BUT.......after taking the MSF Rider Education course and learning how to safely and effectivly use the front brake...... I'm a firm believer in them! |
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Title: Re: How to use front brake - 101 Post by Afan on 11/07/13 at 10:44:58 Ok. First I have to "apologize" - I thought my sarcasm was more obvious :) Of course I'm not gonna disengage my front break. And I already took the MSF and all these things you were talking about are already clear to me. If I have plenty of time and space (red light far in front of me) I use rear break only. Otherwise both breaks together, at the same time. Just front break - not so often. So, everything is clear to me and I think I built pretty good habit about breaking process. If I "think" what should I do everything works perfect and I'm not afraid even to make hard stop with 40-50 mph. Never had an issue. But in "sudden" situation, w/o any thinking, like a muscle memory, I hit the front break (twice) and I fell. Now, should it be better at the time and more experience? Is there any "trick" to teach myself (brain) to NOT touch the front break if the bike is not strait or it's rainy outside or any other similar situation? I hope I'm more clear this time. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: How to use front brake - 101 Post by oldNslow on 11/07/13 at 11:26:29 Quote:
That right there tells me that you don't really have the concept down pat. The muscle memory you want to develop is using both brakes whenever you stop, without having to think about it. Otherwise in an emergency you will not be using your bikes maximum stopping power. You can still use the front brake hard in the wet or on gravel etc. as long as you concentrate on keeping the bike upright and the front wheel straight. Practice starting the front brake application very gently and then squeezing the lever progressivly harder as the bike slows and the motorcycle's weight transfers to the front tire. If the forks are bottoming in anything but an all out panic stop, you are pulling the lever too hard too fast. You should be able to do a normal stop without upsetting the suspension very much. It's actually more difficult to modulate the brakes at low speed - when your mishaps occured. The disc brakes on motorcycles are pretty powerful. They need a gentle touch at slow speed. I can't think of a trick. Just practice. |
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Title: Re: How to use front brake - 101 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/07/13 at 11:44:23 Tires have "X" amount of traction,,& No More,, Some of that traction is spent in the act of turning. If you demand the tire slow you more than it has traction to slow you with, it will slide,,When that happens on a front tire, gravity is Immediately involved in the equation & with gravitational acceleration at 32' per second per second that 2&1/2 feet between the seat & asphalt only takes a blink of the eye. I know, I touched with one finger the brake on a Guzzi setting up for a U turn on gravel,, Bad PLan,, My feet were still on the pegs when I ground to a halt from about 10MPH.. Wet, or dirty/sandy stuff are dangerous times for the front brake,,Ive dropped mine at a stop sign, going so slow it went down & I was standing up, legs spread, laying between my feet,, maybe 3 MPH. MMMM Barrassing! The front brake is crucial in keeping stopping distances down, but being every aware of road conditions is absolutely imperative so that it can be applied Judiciously.,Youre well on your way, having learned already that it can bite,, |
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Title: Re: How to use front brake - 101 Post by Gyrobob on 11/07/13 at 16:37:31 Always use both brakes. For maximum deceleration, you have to keep them both on the verge of skidding. You are your own ABS. The only way you can develop that skill is to practice. A lot. Especially at first. Find a road or a large lot where you can practice stops over and over and over again. Anything less than that and you are asking for a disaster. |
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Title: Re: How to use front brake - 101 Post by Dave on 11/07/13 at 17:21:48 I really don't know how to tell someone riding on the street to learn how to use the front brake properly and safely. I learned to ride in the dirt, and as I got more and more aggressive I learned to use the front brake really well. When you are going down a wet and muddy hill, the rear brake is worthless - the only thing that is going to slow you down is the front brake. Sometimes you might use too much brake and fall down.....not enough front brake and you got going too fast and fell down. Falling down in the dirt at slow speeds is far less painfull than falling on the pavement! Over time the front brake operation became part of the skill. When racing the guy that can brake the hardest is often the winner as he can go fast deeper into the corners and pass the riders that are braking sooner. The right hand and the front brake are a skill you need to develop, and when that dog runs out in front of you it needs to be instinctive that you apply the front brake properly....not just a squeeze for all you are worth. Use the front brake whenever you are slowing down enough to need brakes......and practice it a lot. It is not safe to ride around without having mastered how to stop in a hurry. In the dirt you would ride slowly and go faster as your skill developed.....unfortunately when riding on the street I believe a lot of riders are going faster than their ability.....and then you have all those darn cars to try and avoid! |
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Title: Re: How to use front brake - 101 Post by anebv8 on 11/07/13 at 23:54:31 the difference I find between my 2 bikes is my Kwaka has excellant front brakes,I hardly ever touch the rears,but cutting down the gears is not so effective,but "Randy" has excellent down shift braking,I chop down the gears and it pulls up real sweet so I only need to give the front brakes a light touch,mostly just to bring the brake light on so the tin tops know I'm slowing (back firing usually lets them know this though ;) ) and very rarely touch the rear brake |
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Title: Re: How to use front brake - 101 Post by DavidOfMA on 11/08/13 at 08:17:28 I suggest you take a look at Proficient Motorcycling and More Proficient Motorcycling. You should not be dropping your bike! Those books explain in detail the theory and then help you lay out a practice routine so that using both brakes properly in a variety of situations comes naturally. It's using them right in unplanned stops that will save your life. |
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Title: Re: How to use front brake - 101 Post by Steve H on 11/08/13 at 08:57:01 Riding around without knowing how to properly brake is not only very dangerous for you. It is dangerous for others on the road with you also. Please expend the time and effort to become proficient in using both brakes in concert. You will be able to stop much faster and in complete control. You never know when your life will depend on being able to stop quickly in the middle of a busy street. The person that runs over you after you fall and slide / roll in front of them because you don't know how to stop will thank you too for not having your accidental death on their conscience. |
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Title: Re: How to use front brake - 101 Post by DavidOfMA on 11/08/13 at 11:02:35 1209505352555758610 wrote:
And their insurance! |
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Title: Re: How to use front brake - 101 Post by WD on 11/09/13 at 08:23:52 Simple problem, simple solution... practice practice practice. And if you fnd (like I did) that the front brake as shipped is worse than useless, don't use it or switch to a drum front wheel. My 15 year old Savage has had one brake pad swap since new, and that was done in 2005 or 2006. This year it got a drum front conversion, yes, the stock set up on mine was that bad. And not just aesthetically... |
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Title: Re: How to use front brake - 101 Post by DavidOfMA on 11/09/13 at 08:27:29 Just curious. What did you find lacking in the front brakes? I haven't really had any trouble with either the front or the rear on my 2007. They seem to do what they're supposed to do when I need them to do it. |
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Title: Re: How to use front brake - 101 Post by WD on 11/09/13 at 08:42:06 67616C6C68616A6D676671030 wrote:
Anything over 35mph and the front brake wouldn't slow the bike, at all. Rotor turned a nicely tempered purple, maybe Chiguy can put up a pic of it, he has the wheel and disc off my 98 these days. Did not work properly from the day it was purchased until the day I did the drum wheel conversion. Tried to get a new rotor under warranty within a couple weeks, no luck. So used the back brake almost exclusively. Front reserved for holding the bike on a hill, worked great for that. |
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Title: Re: How to use front brake - 101 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/09/13 at 09:51:31 Bummer, WD.. My front was very useable. After hearing the "Its not strong enough" complaint quite a few times I decided to see just how good it was.. I got 'er up to about 50 & started squeezing.. I let off when I heard the front tire start to chirp. With the rake & all, I had no illusions of doing a "stoppie". I knew that I had better let off before it slid out & I bit the dirt in a very literal manner. |
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Title: Re: How to use front brake - 101 Post by Igggy on 11/09/13 at 19:09:12 Never to late to take a certified MC course. If you are not an expert, you 'will' learn better techniques. Well worth the money, even as a refresher. |
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Title: Re: How to use front brake - 101 Post by jay313 on 11/10/13 at 17:30:27 A bunch of good advice. Practice, practice. Yes. Grabbing the brake at slow speed is a recipe for a fall. Any newbie who stops his bike with the wheel turned will drop it in a heartbeat. When turning at speed, do your slowing down before the turn, not during the turn. Slow in, fast out. That's the rule. And if you ever do a track day, the instructors will warn you not to use the rear brake at all. Too much risk of locking the wheel and getting high-sided. After just one day at the track, I almost never used the rear brake again, no matter what kind of bike I was on. Only time I touch the rear brake is for straight-line, emergency braking. |
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Title: Re: How to use front brake - 101 Post by Afan on 11/10/13 at 20:57:27 Ok. Here's the thing. I'm still getting answers I actually didn't ask. Like, for an example, when a cook unintentionally touches a hot pan and then you tell him to practice cooking... :) Anyway, English is not my first language and I'm sure the reason for all these misunderstandings: my question was not formulated well. So I asked my son to "redesign" it. Let's see if he has more luck... :) Okay, thank you guys for all the responses, but it doesn't look like I'm being very clear, and I apologize (English is not my first language). I didn't want to actually teach myself to stop using either of my brakes, I just have an issue where I automatically squeeze the brake and, without meaning to, lock the wheels. This resulted in two falls for me. I don't want to learn how to not use brakes, far from it. I wanted to know if you guys knew of a way to "train my brain" to prevent myself from impulsively and instinctively squeezing the front brake too hard and too fast and causing my falls. In general, I want to know a way (other than progressive practice) to keep myself from using brakes unintentionally. Ok. Let's go from scratch... :D |
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Title: Re: How to use front brake - 101 Post by old_rider on 11/10/13 at 21:53:16 You will have to think of your front brake like your car/truck brake, just practice straight line stops and use the front brake like your hand was your foot on a car brake.... does that make any sense to you? Just like a few folks have been saying, practice, practice, there are no quick miracle courses or fixes, you actually have to do it. I had my wife stopping in a large parking lot 3 days a week, straight line... go fast, slow squeeze first, slightly increasing pressure. Then do the slow stops, same thing, slow squeeze gradual increase... Hope this helps..... While in the parking lot practicing, for the first couple weeks use only the front brake, after those first weeks then you can start with both, just got to remember , use your throttle to start your deceleration (will help you slow down faster and keep your engine from high rev), then pressure as needed...hand-foot, hand-foot practice, practice, practice...(did I say that too much? ) Good luck :) |
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Title: Re: How to use front brake - 101 Post by Gyrobob on 11/11/13 at 05:42:56 Afan said "...I want to know a way (other than progressive practice) to keep myself from using brakes unintentionally." Not possible. The only way to carve the neurological paths required for you to use the brakes safely (and for maximum stopping power) is to practice, practice, practice. There's no magic bullet, no miracle ingredient, no spiritual karma to adopt. If you want to learn something, you have to pay your dues,,......study it and practice it. Let us know when and where you will be practicing, eh? ;-) |
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