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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> How much would it really cost us /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1382982291 Message started by justin_o_guy2 on 10/28/13 at 10:44:51 |
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Title: How much would it really cost us Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/28/13 at 10:44:51 to deport them & actually control the borders? http://www.rense.com/general96/whyam.html Over 338 BILL YUNN Dawlerz a year!? |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by Midnightrider on 10/28/13 at 16:14:55 Jog, you know the deal as well as I do. The Globalist plan is Mexico, US and Canada becoming one country. That's why Obama is bustin his a$$ to legalise Mexicans. I saw where Rubio came to his senses and backed out. They shipped all our good jobs overseas and now they cry about food stamps and welfare, SS and such, what the hell do they expect? Every dam dime they spend on us they cry about but they spend money abroad, financing enemys just to keep the war machine going. That's what Ben Ghazi was all about! You've heard morons say corporations are people, well let the SOB"S pay taxes like people do. Food stamps amounts to a fraction of what they give to other countries, just like your chart above. Obama knows his time is running out and legalising the Mexicans, totally opening the border and gun confiscation will be his top priorities. He can still do a lot of damage in two years. Read his 23 executive orders. Everyone of them go directly against the Constitution and Bill Of Rights while Congress sets back and does nothing. They should all be vetoed. Twenty years ago Obama would have been impeached, maybe put on trial as a traitor. I can be executed with no trial! Dont argue with me until you have read the executive orders. I too have read about the grid shutdown, we'll wait and see if its true. |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by HartAttack on 10/28/13 at 18:41:16 This would be a perfect argument for Fair Tax. Implement the Fair Tax and now everyone who has not been paying taxes in this country is paying them. This would do away with the corrupt IRS, illegals are now paying, drug dealers, no more"pay for Fair share" because everyone is paying the same amount. Now even those with government subsidies are paying right back into the system that is sustaining them. It is not a perfect plan by any means but it is, in my opinion, better than what we have. This country has allowed political correctness interfere to the point that we would never pass a mass deportation effort. So if they're going to live here they can at least pay "rent." |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by Midnightrider on 10/29/13 at 20:05:38 Hart it's a good idea but most illegals have several ID's and work for cash. We cant afford them period. If our goverment really cared about us they would close the borders, cut off foreign aid and quit feeding the war machine. We need to take care of our own first, anyone with common sense should know that but the goverment is doing the exact opposite. Everyone wants to call me a conspiratist but all I do is compare common sense to what the goverment is actually doing. |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/30/13 at 08:20:19 The only fair tax is a national sales tax, called a value added tax in most European countries, coupled with a very modest, maybe about 10%, income tax. Is it regressive? Maybe, but you can solve that with a refund to those whose income tax return shows income below some pre-determined amount. Why is it fair? Because a VAT taxes consumption, not the accumulation of wealth and capital like income taxes do that reach high percentages. What to buy a $300 pair of shoes? Go ahead, you'll pay the VAT far more than a guy whose shoes cost him $75. Same for everything - buy a $60K car and pay VAT thru the nose compared to eth frugal guy who gets by with a $25K car. |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by Serowbot on 10/30/13 at 08:36:39 I can't see how a national sales tax is fair at all... Poor, and lower middle class people have to spend every penny they make to make ends meet... (even some that don't have).. It's a nice plan for the rich though... :-?... |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/30/13 at 08:37:48 VAT isnt a bad idea, except that so many today have no savings plans & are deep in debt. The rich can afford it & still save,, WE need tax relief, everyone,, top to bottom,, & instead of "Saving the housing market" by bailing out the banks, they coulda paid ALL the mortgages & saved the whole economy,, Its not MEANT to work, people,.,its a game, they pretend to be tryiing to fix things, while they sabotage the whole thing.. The globalist agenda marches on |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/30/13 at 08:39:40 JOG - That's nonsense. Sew - Did you see my comment about how to handle a VAT system for the poor? VAT works very well in almost all of the western European countries. |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by HartAttack on 10/30/13 at 09:17:10 08070B010A070C000710050710620 wrote:
The VAT tax was exactly what I meant. It is up to you to decide how much you are going to pay. It almost forces people to be mindful of their purchases. The reason anyone needs to be bailed out in the first place is because they are spending money they don't have. Just like the government. Drive through the ghetto or even lower enlisted housing areas on Federal installations. You will see people earning an annual salary under the poverty line driving $30,000+ vehicles. It's absurd! Yes, the goods we purchase on a daily basis will "cost" more, but there would be no more Federal and State taxes coming out of every paycheck, which at least for me, is around 32% of my gross income. Those who consume fewer goods, "the poor" if you must, will ultimately pay less in taxes. Those who consume more (people other than poor) will pay more. I don't see how this is not fair? |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by Paraquat on 10/30/13 at 09:18:18 I haven't heard that idea proposed. As much as it pains me (I kid, I kid) I actually agree with you on that idea, Jerry. --Steve |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/30/13 at 09:21:09 It sounds good, on first thot, but think longer. Who has $$? Consumption taxes impact those with least, most. The wealthy do Juuust fine,, |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by WebsterMark on 10/30/13 at 10:02:08 Define "just fine...." And so what if the "rich do fine"? Are taxes meant to punish success? |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/30/13 at 10:32:42 Ive already learned about you,, no point in trying to get you to see the pain that VAT causes,,I guess you havent noticed the folks who come here talking about how they can afford the parts, not the VAT due from import. YOU saving a ton, are ya? You really believe the taxes theyre getting now wont stay and they ADD the VAT? YOu believe theyll stay low? Yea,, theyll start low,,but theyll go up.,. What part of the budget is paid by our taxes? They go in debt for loads,, why should we even pay taxes? Just borrow it,, heck,, thats what they do when they wanna wage a war for gazzilions a day.. |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/30/13 at 10:33:23 WM - In this day and age, most middle class people want to see "the rich" punished any way they can be. I think it was Midnight who, the other day, was talking about how, in his youth, about everyone was middle class. Well, my family was definitely lower middle class- my parents never owned a home. My dad always had a job, but not a high paying one, and my mother worked too, the exception for a 1950s family. Yet, they always admired successful people, and told me that if I'd get an education and work, I could increase my standard of living over what they had. They actually held the really rich in awe. Not so today. |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/30/13 at 10:35:09 JOG - Read my earlier post. I already covered how to deal with the poor in equalizing VAT payments. |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/30/13 at 10:41:36 What VAT opponents are missing is that a VAT catches all revenue - there are no deductions, "loopholes", or means to dishonestly evade it. No forms to fill out by the average guy either. Buy a pair of jeans at WalMart and you pay the tax. Everyone pays - regardless of whether you're an illegal working off of the books somewhere, or a truly wealthy person buying an Armani suit. |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by WebsterMark on 10/30/13 at 11:16:47 Ive already learned about you,, .....You really believe the taxes theyre getting now wont stay and they ADD the VAT? No Jog; you've haven't 'learned about me', cause if you had, you'd know while the idea of a flat tax or VAT tax is appealing, I'm 100% against it because I know politicians (mostly liberals, but conservatives as well) would still push thru more taxes on top of it. How many 'temporary' taxes were later (and quietly) made permanent?. I don't trust any politician to do what they say. The very definition of a politician is someone who always keeps the door open... |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by WebsterMark on 10/30/13 at 11:20:52 WM - In this day and age, most middle class people want to see "the rich" punished any way they can be. I think it was Midnight who, the other day, was talking about how, in his youth, about everyone was middle class. Well, my family was definitely lower middle class- my parents never owned a home. My dad always had a job, but not a high paying one, and my mother worked too, the exception for a 1950s family. Yet, they always admired successful people, and told me that if I'd get an education and work, I could increase my standard of living over what they had. They actually held the really rich in awe. Not so today. J; As a young child, I was raised by my two aunts; older women who grew up during the depression. They were the same way. While they were yellow dog Democrats, they didn't hate the rich with the jealousy we see today and particularly on this forum. Not 100% certain what changed, but something sure did. I guess media exposure and advertising just overwhelms some people with the idea they are getting cheated. Everyone's a victim of what someone else did, never themselves. |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by Midnightrider on 10/30/13 at 12:15:35 6768646E6568636F687F6A687F0D0 wrote:
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/30/13 at 12:30:24 Midnight - Thanks for the compliment. A serious question, and not intended to just start an argument - What things has Goldman and AIG done that are illegal or otherwise "crooked"? As for the Morgan fine, $9 Billion helped the gov't, and the rest of us far more than putting some business executive in jail for a year or three. I personally think what the gov't did to Martha Stewart, for example, was abhorrent. She hurt no one, but some street criminal who mugs someone gets less time than she did. I guess I could have never been a prosecutor - believe it or not, I'm too much of a softly toward those crimes that do not cause, or threaten, any physical harm. I feel this way because I knew ( not a client ) a guy who got himself in a jam because his business was failing and he committed bank fraud to the tune of about $50K. They actually put him in jail for a little over a year. His wife and kids ended up on welfare while he has "away", and if there were any real victims, it was the wife and the two kids. When he got out, it took him another year to find a job working construction labor work. I guess I could not have done that to the family. You can't let a crime go unpunished, but better people than I can be responsible for figuring out how to do it and not create even more victims. |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/30/13 at 12:46:53 What things has Goldman and AIG done that are illegal or otherwise "crooked"? WOW!! That was the first real good laugh Ive had today,, Man, you need to pay attention.. Money Laundering ring a bell? They run employees into goob service & they control rules & regs & make sure Goldy gets the golden treatment., |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/30/13 at 12:52:05 JOG - Simple platitudes with no specifics. Have you got specifics? |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by Midnightrider on 10/30/13 at 13:04:23 Add to what Jog just said crooked mortgages, financed terrorist along with Bush and Obama and the Federal Reserve. Christopher Stevens was in with Al Quieda shipping weapons to Syria. Follow the money trail. Thats why you'll never hear the truth about Ben Ghazi. I have realatives in Washington (DEA and CIA) and I swore I wouldnt tell what I've been told but its not going to be pretty. Any reasonable person knows when the goverment spits on the Veterans somethings up and the big banks are going to help finance them. Thats why the goverment looks after them and the Federal Reserve. |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/30/13 at 13:08:56 Midnight - Sorry, but I don't buy all of that. AS for crooked mortgages, are you referring to the "liar's loans" that were made during the housing boom last decade? If so, remember that they were mandated by that stupid housing act passed during the Clinton era. No bank wants to lend money and not get it repaid. That's fundamental. But they were forced into the riskier loans by that misguided attempt by the gov't to increase home ownership. |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by Midnightrider on 10/30/13 at 13:28:32 Just follow the money trail Jerry. You're right Clinton started it but Bush and Obama are carrying on the tradition. After we realised the so called mistake was made in Iran, no WMD's why didnt we immediatey pull out? That would have been the correct thing to do but once again follow the money trail. |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/30/13 at 13:37:33 That "follow the money" is an old saw to me. Who, supposedly and specifically, made what money. Remember, I'm in the business of evidence, not hearsay, not what some internet site says, but real, hard, and specific evidence. And, also, don't tell me "oil". We get very little oil from Iraq, and as long as Bammy doesn't screw up our own booming oil industry since the advent of fracking, it's predicted that in five more years we'll be a net exporter of oil. |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by Midnightrider on 10/30/13 at 15:09:55 Thats simple, the war machine is where the money is going. Haliburton, Blackwater, etc. They get contracts with no one else allowed to bid. |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/30/13 at 15:58:08 454A464C474A414D4A5D484A5D2F0 wrote:
Maybe so,, but will we need to import water to drink? IMO, what theyre doing now is very dangerous to our aquifers. |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by Midnightrider on 11/05/13 at 12:06:47 I hold rich people in awe who invent something to improve the world, build factories and hire workers and pay decent wages and benefits, good doctors which are becoming less and less. A lot of that is due to the system which heards people through like cows. I wouldnt be here if it werent for good doctors. I despise CEO's who set on their a$$, appoint people to do their work. All they have to do is appease the shareholders by predominately taking away from the workers instead of R and D and trying to produce a new or better product. Their salaries are 475-1 now compared to their average workers. They're not in it for the long run, they know in 5 years or less they will leave with a golden parachute some by stealing their employees retirement, move on to another company and do the same thing, not to mention shipping our jobs overseas. Thats basically what Romney did. I hate Bankers, Credit Card Companies Management, Crooked Investment Firms like Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan, despise Bush and Obama for bailing them out. There's 18 million repossessed homes mainly from plants closing, jobs being shipped overseas etc. What I'm saying is its through no fault of the homowners. Those are the people who should have been bailed out. I like Warren Buffet because he believes in fair tax and I've mentioned this before. He said " Every Human life has the same value" I despise the wealthy shysters that run the Federal Reserve. I despise most wealthy double standard lying politicians, especially Mrs Feinstein. They have totally screwed this country up and made billions doing it, they even admit to offshore accounts that you know they dont pay taxes on. There are no consequences for any of these peoples despicable actions. There are very few rich people left like ones who improved the world like Henry Ford. One of my respected rich people was the CEO of Costco but I heard the other day he was dropping his employees health care benefits, might have something to do with Obamacare. I hate the war machine, Haliburton, Blackwater, etc. They get rich killing people. The division of wealth in this country fully backs up what I just said. I'll just stick to being poor and honest. |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 11/05/13 at 12:43:23 Midnight - Much of what you say may be true. But, remember that a great majority of the home foreclosures were due to buyers taking out those "liar's loans" that were impossible for the borrowers to repay. Don't blame the lenders - Clinton's Community Improvement Program legislation required the lenders to lend money to people who never had a snowball's chance of repaying. And if a borrower didn't realize than you can't repay a huge mortgage on a meager income, whose fault is it? |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by Midnightrider on 11/05/13 at 17:52:25 Jerry fracking could backfire on us. Have you seen the video of the farmer who turns on his water spigot, pulls out his lighter and and lights natural gas coming out of the spigot and all his livestock are dying because they are fracking nearby. I've heard of changing fault lines and contaminating our underground water supply. Some scientist claim the fracking in Ohio caused the earthquake on the east coast that cracked the Washington Monument. I'm not arguing because people expect Midnight to argue but it really scares me. I'm not sure we're gonna make it through the Japanese reactor catastrophe. Number 4 reactor keeps sinking and they cant stop it. Scientist have no idea how much damage it has caused or is going to cause. Energy companies are greedy when it comes to energy sources and lose all since of reason, like the BP disaster which by the way is causing cancerous shrimp now. The Koch Bros developed fracking and its a well known fact they could care less about the environment or the planet. They practically strip forest making plywood and complain if the goverment makes them replant. These brothers make 80 billion a year profit and they want more money and you wonder why I dont like many rich people. They're risking a lot to make money they can never live long enough to spend, 80 billion a year, thats mind boggling. I'm not a liberal tree hugger but I believe scientist that the Koch Bros cant buy off should study fracking some more before we mess up something that cant be repaired. |
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by Midnightrider on 11/05/13 at 18:38:08 39363A303B363D313621343621530 wrote:
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Title: Re: How much would it really cost us Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/06/13 at 10:54:39 So, we handed the banks billions to keep the foreclosures from wrecking THEM, instead of paying off the mortgages, which would have saved the banks AND the people AND the economy,, OHH,, BUt theyre not smart enough to figure THAT out,, OHH No,, Like Nafta,, Clinton couldnt see that coming! As IF the smartest guy to sit behind that desk since Ive been old enough to look at whats going on didnt KNOW what that would do to our economy,, Like Perot said "There will be a huge sucking sound as our jobs l;eave the country". |
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