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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Squirrely? A Question to all RYCA OWNERS /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1381947326 Message started by MrPazloe on 10/16/13 at 11:15:25 |
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Title: Squirrely? A Question to all RYCA OWNERS Post by MrPazloe on 10/16/13 at 11:15:25 Hey gang There is no doubt this RYCA kit drastically changes everything about our lil thumper..I've been more than pleased with the look and fun factor. But, there is one thing. I'm curious.. Are your bikes a little squirrerly since the conversion? I'm not sure if it's my imagination but it seems like ever since I threw the kit on (plus the 18in rear tire and clip ons) it feels like the front is just not as smooth and steady?? I have a 19in Kenda tire on front and 18in Kenda on the rear. Tires have less than 300 miles on them. No fork brace. Would a brace tighten things up?? |
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Title: Re: Squirrely? A Question to all RYCA OWNERS Post by Serowbot on 10/16/13 at 11:27:06 Raising the rear and lowering the front reduces rake,.. which will make steering quicker and the bike more squirrely ... .. also the lower clip-ons will contribute... Tires are narrower, too... I don't think a brace would help that.. (it's not fork flex)... ... a steering stabilizer would... But,.. if you just keep riding it a while, you'll probably adjust, and a stock Savage will feel weird... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Squirrely? A Question to all RYCA OWNERS Post by MrPazloe on 10/16/13 at 11:43:41 I knew changing the geometry would affect steering(for the better) but I didn't know how squirrely the bike would become. Serowbot, any way we can counter this?? Aside from steering stabilizer(which is the same as steering dampener)? |
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Title: Re: Squirrely? A Question to all RYCA OWNERS Post by ToesNose on 10/16/13 at 17:12:06 Well the bike is no longer a cruiser, they are smooth and track nice and straight but don't corner fast quite so well. Now that it's a café racer it won't track as well straight, but is lots more fun in the curves! Yea a steering dampener will help with the straight lines, but research them, you'll probably want an adjustable one that you can tweak. What type of tires are you sporting? |
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Title: Re: Squirrely? A Question to all RYCA OWNERS Post by MrPazloe on 10/17/13 at 07:03:36 ToesNose, I was foolishly thinking that after the Ryca conversion the bike would retain straight line smoothness AND gain quicker cornering.. In a perfect world... I'm running Kenda tires ($100 price range), 19inch in the front and 18 in the back. Tires aren't the best, but far from the worst and they're brand new. |
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Title: Re: Squirrely? A Question to all RYCA OWNERS Post by SteveIsGr8 on 10/17/13 at 07:42:54 Get shorter rear shocks. You will lose some travel and a bit of ground clearance. Just try your stock shocks to get an idea of how much it will change. |
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Title: Re: Squirrely? A Question to all RYCA OWNERS Post by Fizzer on 10/18/13 at 08:56:33 I've had a bike get really out of shape before because I used to heavy a fork oil (20w) - that was an fzr400 If you could describe the symptoms a bit better that would help diagnose. For instance, the above problem was caused by heavy oil + cornering hard on a bumpy road. the front wheel wouldn't keep up with the contours of the road and lost traction, gave a small tank slapper. Overinflated front tyres will seem a little 'wandery' over white lines and the like. what pressures are you running? i take it you haven't worn the tyres out yet (I had a squared off rear tyre on a gs550L which made it weave alarmingly over 70MPH) This might also be just how things are compared to a savage, it will be a lot more 'pointy' because of the geometry change. have you got experience of this kind of bike to reference it to? |
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Title: Re: Squirrely? A Question to all RYCA OWNERS Post by Dave on 10/20/13 at 10:15:02 My bike has the RYCA geometry....and a bit more. I replaced the fork triple trees and reduced the trail by another inch. My bike is stable and doesn't seem to have any handling quirks, and I have ridden all summer without having any handling issues. The only "squirelly" thing about the handling is that if you are going down the highway and you intentionally wiggle the handlebars very quickly....the handlebars/forks feel like they could go into a "speed wobble" very easily....but as soon as you stop intentionally wobbling the front end it settles down. The bike is stable in corners, on the straight and over bumps. I did ride a Kawasaki Ninja 300 a while back and I noticed that the steering on that bike was much lighter than on my bike - my Cafe' conversion takes more effort to turn the bars quickly into corners and the steering feels much heavier on mine. I am interested to hear what your bike does that make is feel "squirelly" to you. |
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Title: Re: Squirrely? A Question to all RYCA OWNERS Post by Face on 10/20/13 at 17:18:20 Hey, Dave. You say you reduced trail with a different triple? If the offset of the new triple is less than that of the stock one, that would move the axle centerline back thereby INCREASING trail. Or did you get a triple with a greater offset than factory? I'm curious because I too would like to replace the triple for my roadster conversion. |
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Title: Re: Squirrely? A Question to all RYCA OWNERS Post by cafecarl on 10/20/13 at 17:20:42 Are you running the front fender? If not I would get a brace. I cut the stock fender down a little. But it's still a fairly good brace when it's in place. My Ryca conv. goes down the road and handles great even with the standard grade Kendra tires. I also did the Progressive spring upgrade. Good luck. |
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Title: Re: Squirrely? A Question to all RYCA OWNERS Post by Dave on 10/21/13 at 03:26:11 707B69757469691A0 wrote:
Oops! Your right......I have increased the trail! Maybe that explains why mine handles fine - but does steer a bit stiff. I used 1980 RM400 triple trees.....it was a lot of work. The fork legs are the right diameter, but are a bit narrower and the stem needs to be modified as it was originally ball bearings and the Savage is tapered roller bearings. |
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Title: Re: Squirrely? A Question to all RYCA OWNERS Post by MrPazloe on 10/21/13 at 08:48:26 Hey Dave, My tires are 30psi. I can't really describe the "squirrely" feel any further. I don't get anything near a tank slapper in turns, but it just feels..umm..not steady. Every other bike I've ridden (two harleys, hyosung gv250, several streetbikes, triumph speed triple s) have all been more stable. No hands riding was easy, for example. actually turns isn't the problem, I just dont know why it feels a bit wobbly while straight riding. I'm not running a front fender, no brace either. Dave, according to your fork modification, your bike should be noticeably more wobbly?? Now, I'm even more confused. :- :-? |
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Title: Re: Squirrely? A Question to all RYCA OWNERS Post by Face on 10/21/13 at 17:41:12 MrPazloe, Look a couple posts up, I believe we've determined that Dave's triple conversion has actually made his bike more stable at the expense of turning ease. Here's what needs to be understood. This bike was never designed to sit like a Ryca. It was designed as a cruiser. The Ryca kit forces it into a sportier stance, but the rake angle is still WAY off from a sportbike or even a standard like the bikes you've ridden. Those bikes were designed with proper geometry in mind to get the trail and handling where they need to be for comfort and safety. While the Ryca does reduce trail and wheelbase from that of a stock Savage, it can't make up for the steer tube angle. So even though it has technical numbers (trail) that make it seem like it would perform more like a sportbike, in practice that just isn't the case. Put your front fender back on and see if that helps. Then just be patient and re-learn how to ride. Customizing is all about compromise. Some things are just going to be the way they'll be. |
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Title: Re: Squirrely? A Question to all RYCA OWNERS Post by Gyrobob on 10/21/13 at 17:56:55 I had the same squirreliness. I am using the Progressive springs upgrade and the RYCA rear shocks with ATF as fork oil. It would get almost scary in a 70mph leany-over turn. Not a tank slapper, but a genuinely felt oscillation until I straitened it out. I have Avon Speedmaster tires. Casey (or was it Ryan) said a fork brace would fix it. It made it less of an issue, but it still has some instability in relatively high-speed sweepers. I installed a T-Kat brace. I also have a CB550 front fender. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh253/Gyrobob_theOriginal/Motorcycle/RYCA%20CS-1%20LS650%20S40%20Savage/DSC08993Large_zps26cf1114.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/Gyrobob_theOriginal/media/Motorcycle/RYCA%20CS-1%20LS650%20S40%20Savage/DSC08993Large_zps26cf1114.jpg.html) |
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Title: Re: Squirrely? A Question to all RYCA OWNERS Post by MrPazloe on 10/22/13 at 05:53:35 Face and Gyrobob, Thanks for the great input. I will look up Dave's post on his triple conversion. Face, what you said makes perfect sense. And you're not the only Savage Veteran dropping knowledge on bike geometry. I can liken this situation to that of Mariano Rivera..I know he's retired, but, I still keep believing he will jog out of that outfield bullpen this coming spring :'( I've thrown the fender back on and it makes no difference. I've looked into getting a T-kat brace. All reviews on them are split 50-50 on whether or not they work. You really think it makes the steering more stable?? If it all just comes down to geometry, I guess I can learn to live with her being a bit shifty |
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Title: Re: Squirrely? A Question to all RYCA OWNERS Post by Dave on 10/22/13 at 06:30:29 Here is the link to my build......the triple tree work is included in that thread. It was a lot of work....it would be interesting to ride another RYCA and see how differently they handle. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1358099938/0 I did the triple tree conversion to bring the forks closer to the steering stem, and to allow me to drop the fork tubes to lower the front end without installing the stops.....I wanted to keep my fork travel and reduce the harsh ride and limited travel the spacers can cause. It might be easier to adapt an entire triple tree/fork/front wheel assembly from another bike. |
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Title: Re: Squirrely? A Question to all RYCA OWNERS Post by MrPazloe on 10/22/13 at 10:42:22 HMM. Just got back from lunch and while riding the bike I paid careful attention to the front tire.. I think the FRONT TIRE is spinning with a wobble! Maybe that's why I keep thinking the steering is a bit squirrely?? I have spoke wheels. Anyone know how often these have to be re-spoked and trued??? |
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Title: Re: Squirrely? A Question to all RYCA OWNERS Post by Dave on 10/22/13 at 11:55:34 645B79485345464C290 wrote:
Well....I am used to dirt bikes with aluminum rims that take a hammering and not sure about road bikes with steel rims. But at least once a year I check the spoke tigbtness and check to see if they are true. The light aluminum rims on trials bikes are very soft and need a lot of attention. Jack the front of the bike up and secure it, then spin the wheel and see if the wheel and tire are true. Check the spokes by tapping on them, and they should have a nice "ping" sound to them when you lightly tap them with a wrench. Any loose ones will make dull "thud". Get on YouTube to search how to tighten and true a wheel......if is explained very well in most of those videos. |
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Title: Re: Squirrely? A Question to all RYCA OWNERS Post by MrPazloe on 10/22/13 at 12:25:39 I've seen some of the videos up on YouTube, very informative indeed.I believe there's a post here from one of the members who built a homemade truing stand. I have a spoke wrench, no reason I cant true the wheel myself. Dave, the streets in my city are in really terrible shape, could this contribute to a wheel becoming wobbly sooner rather than later? |
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Title: Re: Squirrely? A Question to all RYCA OWNERS Post by Gyrobob on 10/24/13 at 09:28:30 The T-Kat brace only helped a little. While on the interstate at 70-75 mph, the thing is still oscillating back and forth a little,.. it's more something you can feel rather than see. -- It's enough, though, that it feels like if I let go of the grips, it would turn into a tank-slapper. -- When I put a lot of force on the grips, either pulling or pushing, the oscillation stops,... which tells me there might be a slight bit if movement on the front wheel from side to side and that the additional mass (arms and upper torso) more firmly attached to the grips is changing the resonance of that movement/oscillation. I'm wondering if a steering stabilizer/damper might settle this down. The big time crotch rockets often come with these units as standard equipment. Ebay has them from $40 to a few hundred bucks. |
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Title: Re: Squirrely? A Question to all RYCA OWNERS Post by MrPazloe on 10/24/13 at 14:41:41 I hear you gyrobob. I'd rather play in traffic than take my bike over 65mph! Feels like I have zero control. I lifted the bike yesterday and proceeded to true the front wheel. It wasn't that off to begin with. I suspect the rotor is slightly warped, it seems to be spinning funny. |
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Title: Re: Squirrely? A Question to all RYCA OWNERS Post by Fizzer on 11/03/13 at 12:34:06 I can think of two other reasons why you may be wandering in a straight line: Tyre profile: I've had a squared off rear tyre cause a weave between 70 and 80 on a gs550l before. A new rear tyre cured it. No problems in corners or below that speed. It got rather alarming but you could ride through it if you kept it nailed (I was V stupid when younger). I do wonder about the 'classic' tyres people are fitting to ryca's and whether they may cause similar problems... Steering bearing wear: If you didn't replace or check the tapered roller head bearing recently then check now. If it wears out, it creates a groove in the race in the center steering position. This means that when going straight you're constantly trying to push the roller out of the groove to travel in a straight line. (hope that makes sense) Andy |
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