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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1381871817 Message started by slickiverson on 10/15/13 at 14:16:56 |
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Title: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by slickiverson on 10/15/13 at 14:16:56 I´m doing a complete overhauling on the cylinder cover/head & cylinder on my 1987 Suzuki Savage. I ask you Savage-gurus to help me make a list over what parts, gaskets, bolts etc. I should replace? Should i buy a new camshaft chain? Mine is stretched, but I have the Verslavy Tensioner. My Savage is almost at the 50000km mark. |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by Serowbot on 10/15/13 at 14:19:58 5847424840425D4E595844452B0 wrote:
You might as well... as well as new guides... |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by verslagen1 on 10/15/13 at 15:33:58 I would consider the starter torque limiter upgrade. oversized piston, rings and bore job. cylinder base gasket, head gasket, figure 8 o-ring, head plug, copper washers, sealing washers, clutch gasket, alternate lengths of clutch rods, |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by slickiverson on 10/15/13 at 18:07:07 Thank you "verslagen1"! This upgrade you are talking about, is this a "upgrade cylinder kit"? If so, where do I buy it? A friend of mine mentioned a 666ccm kit for the Savage? I need to repair my cylinder because it is cracked between the cooling fins. Some idiot that have been working on the bike in the past apparently don't know what a torque wrench is.. If the trim-kit you are talking about is cheaper then fixing the old original one, well, then I may have to buy a kit. I recon I have to juice up the carburetor as well? |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by slickiverson on 12/09/13 at 20:45:30 My cylinder cover/head & cylinder is now done at the engine repair shop. I am almost ready to reassemble the engine, but should I buy a new cam chain, tensioner for the chain & cam chain guide? Do I need to remove the clutch in order to change the cam chain? If so, is there any seals/gasket etc that I should buy? Any tips or tricks? |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/09/13 at 21:46:21 Everything cam chain should be new, Buying a Suzuki tensioner is not the answer, Get Verlagens unit, You mite consider having the cylinder treated,,talk to Serowbot.. I think his is treated. |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by cafecarl on 12/10/13 at 03:39:08 I changed my cam chain without removing the clutch on my '86. After they went to a 5 speed trans, I'm told the clutch needs to be removed. You should be OK on your '87. +1 on the torque limiter upgrade, good idea, I will do mine next time I'm in there. |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by verslagen1 on 12/10/13 at 07:26:16 after '86, they changed the primary ratio and the clutch has to be removed to get at the cam chain. |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by Dave on 12/10/13 at 07:40:08 657661607F7274767D22130 wrote:
Verslagen. So......if the earlier 4 speed clutch basket and crankshaft sprocket were used in a later 5 speed bike - Would the bike turn fewer rpm's at cruise? |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by verslagen1 on 12/10/13 at 08:11:38 576C6176676B70766D656877040 wrote:
Verslagen. So......if the earlier 4 speed clutch basket and crankshaft sprocket were used in a later 5 speed bike - Would the bike turn fewer rpm's at cruise?[/quote] let's see, when I change the speed on the drill press, smaller driving, bigger driven it goes slower... So no, more rpm's for the same speed. hmmm, I wonder what the gear ratio's are in an '86 ;D |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by slickiverson on 12/10/13 at 13:00:53 I am talking about the tensioner-arm. I already have the Verslagen-tensioner. The cylinder is treated and I also bought new piston-rings. 657A7C7B6661506050687A763D0F0 wrote:
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by slickiverson on 12/10/13 at 13:03:50 Ok, is there anything special I have to be aware of when I disassemble the clutch? Do I find everything I need to know in the "Clymer" book? 352631302F2224262D72430 wrote:
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by verslagen1 on 12/10/13 at 14:13:06 4857525850524D5E494854553B0 wrote:
[/quote] undo the 4 bolts on the spider, remove the main nut, and replace the spider and at least 2 bolts. This will keep the clutch pack together an avoid some problems. Stuff some rags in all the oil return holes at the bottom of the case, so you don't loose your watch, wedding ring or anything else. when you pull the clutch off, there's a ring behind that holds a pin. collect that pin before you loose it. On that ring is a gear, note how it's installed. Reversing it can cause loss of oil pressure and disaster. |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/10/13 at 16:19:25 IDK how many miles are on it, but Id put fresh chain guides in it if they look worn.The Verslagen is, IMO, the single most important mod to make on one of these.,Not for performance reasons, of course, but simply to protect the engine. Ditching the stock petcock for a Raptor is next, IMO. I think the chain guide that the cam chain tensioner attaches to is more important to replace than the other one, BUT, IF the other one needs replaced, IIRC, That one means ya gotta pull the head, so, have a good look at those 2 parts. |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by JayDuta on 12/11/13 at 00:54:55 Mind if I ask a question here? I just got the Verslagen mod and as I was installing the guides back in, I damaged the cam chain guide. I just received the replacement part, but know I'm wondering if I should also replace the cam chain tensioner and chain as well? Is it necessary to replace? The tensioner is double the price of the guide. I have a 96 with about 4,XXXXmi on it. I'm hoping its ok just to replace the guide and not have to drop more ends. |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/11/13 at 09:07:31 If by "Tensioner" youre referring to the cam chain guide that the Verslagen attaches to, theres no need to replace it at such low miles unless is damaged, |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by verslagen1 on 12/11/13 at 09:29:00 5F677071606174150 wrote:
clear as mud. you got a verslavy, so why would you buy a new tensioner assembly? You damaged the... rear guide, so you're replacing it... ok and it can be installed from below if you pull the clutch and primary gear. you have 4,xxx or 4x,xxx miles? and what ends are you dropping? |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by JayDuta on 12/11/13 at 09:58:55 Thanks for verifying Verslagen. And thanks for the mod. I have about 4k miles. I was just wondering if it was necessary to replace the tensioner guide as well if I got a new rear guide. I guess there isn't a difference. |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by verslagen1 on 12/11/13 at 10:20:53 you must be talking about the front guide, it can't be replaced w/out removing the head. And because it's straight wears much less. The rear "tensioner" guide, has a heavy plastic molding on it. I've seen it crack and one guy had it come off and clog the pump intake. |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by slickiverson on 01/14/14 at 06:07:01 How do I remove the cogwheel mounted in front of the cam chain? |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by verslagen1 on 01/14/14 at 06:16:13 With a left handed wrench |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by slickiverson on 01/14/14 at 09:28:41 667562637C7177757E21100 wrote:
I only have a right handed wrench. ;) What I mean is, how do I keep the cogwheel from spinning while trying to loosen it? Maybe a stupid question, but I dont want to damage anything. |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by Dave on 01/14/14 at 10:05:25 7F60656F67657A697E7F63620C0 wrote:
I only have a right handed wrench. ;) What I mean is, how do I keep the cogwheel from spinning while trying to loosen it? Maybe a stupid question, but I dont want to damage anything.[/quote] You either need to use an impact wrench, or you need a tool to hold the crankshaft from turning. Sometimes you can wedge a rag or leather belt between the gear teeth, sometimes you can wedge something between the crank throws and case if the cylinder is off, sometimes you can put a strap wrench on the magneto side if you have that engine side cover off. The left handed wrench statement might not be just a joke - I can't remember but that nut might be a left hand thread. |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/14/14 at 10:50:24 An impact for poppin the clutch nut off isnt absolutely essential, but it sure makes it easy, BUt goin back together? Ohh, man, that impact is THE answer. I used a piece of leather in the gears, too. I know theres a left hand application in there somewhere,, been too long for me, but I Think its the clutch basket. If there are threads visible, study them. Or wait for someone to say, just , know before ya go,, |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by verslagen1 on 01/14/14 at 11:24:03 637C79737B79667562637F7E100 wrote:
I only have a right handed wrench. ;) What I mean is, how do I keep the cogwheel from spinning while trying to loosen it? Maybe a stupid question, but I dont want to damage anything.[/quote] Yes, the nut is left handed. there's an "L" stamped on the nut. I stack a couple of penny's together and stick them in the gears to the clutch. BTW: clutch is not left handed. I don't like using impact wrenches to tighten any thing. and unless absolutely necessary, I don't use them to loosen either. |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by slickiverson on 01/20/14 at 16:46:47 Hey, me again! The next step is to do the camshaft drive chain to camshaft alignment, but as I removed the left-hand crankcase cover I noticed something. The big cogwheel attached to the alternator rotor has a broken tooth. In other words, one tooth is missing. I have ordered a new cogwheel, but my question is: Can I continue with the camshaft drive chain to camshaft alignment, or do I wait till a new cogwheel is in place? |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by slickiverson on 01/21/14 at 21:16:35 Anybody? |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by Serowbot on 01/21/14 at 22:42:57 Any alignments depends on all gear teeth being there... Correct the physical mechanics first... before you try to get them all to cooperate with each other... What's the point in jumping the gun?... Get all yer' teeth in place.. then set the gears for correct timing... Without thinking what connects to what,... I'd just wait 'till all the teeth were in place... ...( I think you are referring to the starter drive,... which wouldn't matter,... but why rush?)... It ain't goin' anywhere anyway... |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by verslagen1 on 01/21/14 at 23:48:13 you know you need a special tool to pull the rotor to get at that gear don't cha? |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by slickiverson on 01/22/14 at 06:54:48 Yes I know, but do I really need to buy the 46mm flywheel socket special tool? Isn't this just a regular 46mm socket? It is expensive, and I already have access to multiple 46mm sockets. 5B485F5E414C4A48431C2D0 wrote:
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by slickiverson on 01/22/14 at 07:04:03 I just received an email from my local Suzuki dealer. $486 for the "Clutch set starter". It doesn't seem it is possible to buy just the cogwheel. Does anybody have a used one in good condition to sell me? The bike is a Suzuki Savage LS650 from 1987. Thanks for the help guys! This forum is awesome! :) |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by Dave on 01/22/14 at 07:06:20 You don't need to remove the flywheel to work on the starter clutch. The flywheel nut requires a 46mm deep socket - as the crankshaft sticks out too far to allow a normal socket to be used......but it doesn't matter to you for the replacement of the starter clutch gear. Why did the bike lose a tooth? Does your bike have the starter torque limiter? Has the case or left side cover been broken as well when the tooth was broken? |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by verslagen1 on 01/22/14 at 07:21:18 errr... yes you do. we are talking about the big gear behind the flywheel right? not the little torque limiter? The flywheel fits on a taper with a key. A 46mm socket is worthless by itself. Only there to aide you when you use the flywheel puller. |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by slickiverson on 01/22/14 at 07:22:31 Hello Dave! So how do I replace the starter gear then? 300B0611000C17110A020F10630 wrote:
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by verslagen1 on 01/22/14 at 07:27:21 and BTW, this is a known problem. The late model bikes have a torque limiter gear that replaced the pinion gear. Here's a link to the fix... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1288911670 |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by Dave on 01/22/14 at 07:48:10 I still believe you don't need to remove the flywheel - but you do need to remove the rotor, and you will need the rotor puller to do that. In the following diagram you can see that you do not need to remove the nut listed at #7....or the flywheel. Not sure the size of #7 nut...maybe the 46mm nut you are referring to is the one that holds the rotor in place....and not the flywheel. |
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Title: Re: Cylinder cover/head & cylinder overhauling Post by verslagen1 on 01/22/14 at 08:43:42 Ah... ok... it's early yet. The big spinny thing on the end is a 'rotor'... ya gotta pull that off. The big spinny thing behind everything else is a 'flywheel'... no need to do anything with that. another cuppajo if you please :-? |
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