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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Bike Jacked at Gunpoint /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1381836413 Message started by ToesNose on 10/15/13 at 04:26:52 |
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Title: Bike Jacked at Gunpoint Post by ToesNose on 10/15/13 at 04:26:52 I came across this vid of a guy getting bike jacked in Brazil......don't worry karma caught up to the gunman in a timely manor ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaU_g8jsNcg |
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Title: Re: Bike Jacked at Gunpoint Post by Pine on 10/15/13 at 06:02:53 That was odd. |
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Title: Re: Bike Jacked at Gunpoint Post by mpescatori on 10/15/13 at 09:28:01 I finally got to watch it - at home. That was not odd, that is what should happen in a perfect world every time somebody pulls a gun on you - you have a friendly COP right then and there challenging the hoodlum. That was not odd, that was FAIR. Divine Justice, express lane. 8-) A M E N |
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Title: Re: Bike Jacked at Gunpoint Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/15/13 at 10:12:15 Book him, Danno.. |
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Title: Re: Bike Jacked at Gunpoint Post by oldNslow on 10/15/13 at 10:17:14 Quote:
In a perfect world you would pull out your OWN gun and take care of the situation yourself right then and there. Relying on a cop being nearby is like hoping to finance your next motorcycle by winning the lottery. Of course most places prefer their citizens be unarmed and helpless, so most folks don't live in a perfect world. |
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Title: Re: Bike Jacked at Gunpoint Post by mpescatori on 10/16/13 at 00:10:18 oldNslow, I am sorry but I don't agree. You have a culture of carrying a chip on your shoulder for the heck of it. It worked as long as you were fighting Iron Age warriors in teepees. Apparently it doesn't work in the modern world. Relax and realize you can't be your own lawman - there's people trained and paid for that. That's why I said "in a perfect world". Unfortunately, the only point nobody made is that, in a perfect world, you don't get hijacked, period. |
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Title: Re: Bike Jacked at Gunpoint Post by oldNslow on 10/16/13 at 05:56:25 302D382E3E3C29322F345D0 wrote:
Defending oneself from a criminal, and being your own lawman are two entirely different things. The police have no legal obligation to act as the personal bodyguards for any particular individual, even if they happen to be on the scene. That's not just my opinion either. It's been decided in our courts. In almost all cases the police show up after the crime has been commited, clean up the mess and conduct an investigation. They also act as a deterrent if they happen to be in the vicinity. Most criminals take pains not to commit a crime in front of a cop. Sometimes they make a mistake like they guy in the video. Your own safety and the safety of the people you care about is ultimately YOUR responsibility, not the responsibility of a civil servant - even an armed civil servant. If you are comfortable relying on the police to be your protectors in the event, however unlikely, that you encounter someone who has the means and will to injure or possibly kill you, then I certainly won't argue. I have a different, and I think more prudent, point of view, and it has nothing to do with having a "chip on my shoulder". It's just a refelection on the plain fact that by the time the police show up, the crime has already been commited, and the victim is already robbed, injured or in the worst ,case dead. |
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Title: Re: Bike Jacked at Gunpoint Post by apache snow on 10/16/13 at 06:34:35 Police have no duty to protect individuals... http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1976377/posts http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0 |
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Title: Re: Bike Jacked at Gunpoint Post by mpescatori on 10/16/13 at 07:43:07 0B3534382A3637590 wrote:
Defending oneself from a criminal, and being your own lawman are two entirely different things. The police have no legal obligation to act as the personal bodyguards for any particular individual, even if they happen to be on the scene. That's not just my opinion either. It's been decided in our courts. In almost all cases the police show up after the crime has been commited, clean up the mess and conduct an investigation. They also act as a deterrent if they happen to be in the vicinity. Most criminals take pains not to commit a crime in front of a cop. Sometimes they make a mistake like they guy in the video. Your own safety and the safety of the people you care about is ultimately YOUR responsibility, not the responsibility of a civil servant - even an armed civil servant. If you are comfortable relying on the police to be your protectors in the event, however unlikely, that you encounter someone who has the means and will to injure or possibly kill you, then I certainly won't argue. I have a different, and I think more prudent, point of view, and it has nothing to do with having a "chip on my shoulder". It's just a refelection on the plain fact that by the time the police show up, the crime has already been commited, and the victim is already robbed, injured or in the worst ,case dead.[/quote] Grammatical misunderstanding. In the English language "you" is both the singular 2nd person and the plural 2nd person. I was using the latter. I sincerely do not believe you, as a singular 2nd person, ever fought against people dwelling in teepees, however oldNslow you may claim to be. As for the rest of this ethical and philosophical discussion, you and I cannot use our own domestic laws and precedents to comment what is fair in a 3rd Country. What happens in... Brazil? wherever... is NOT the resposnibility of a US Court, much less of a US Constable. That is why I commented "in a perfect world"... ...because the first thing that happens when you are in distress is to cry for "HELP!" and you wish the best help there is would come at once. I hope I have made my point this time. |
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Title: Re: Bike Jacked at Gunpoint Post by oldNslow on 10/16/13 at 08:58:34 Quote:
I think this may be the crux of our fundamental disagreement. Whether the "you" in that statement is singular or plural I believe that the statment reflects the wrong attitude. Crying out for, and expecting help when help may not be forthcoming, is tantamount to simply admitting that one is a helpless victim and incapable of dealing with a threat. Your first line of defense is always going to be yourself. If help comes that's great. But if it doesn't, just standing there and hoping isn't going to do any good. |
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Title: Re: Bike Jacked at Gunpoint Post by verslagen1 on 10/16/13 at 09:50:33 5E60616D7F63620C0 wrote:
To point out the obvious, in this case, you'd have to admit that he had brought a tongue to a gun fight. And that is best held till the gun is no longer pointed at it. Even if you had a gun with you, best not disclose that fact until his attention is elsewhere. |
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Title: Re: Bike Jacked at Gunpoint Post by Serowbot on 10/16/13 at 11:20:23 4C5F4849565B5D5F540B3A0 wrote:
True,... and, at that point, you are no longer in eminent danger, and you are killing a man over a motorcycle... Self-defense may not old up in court... Is your bike, A, worth killing someone and B. worth going to prison?... I know the guy is a scumbag,... but the police would likely catch up with him sometime soon... You may or my not get your bike back, but that's what insurance is for... |
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Title: Re: Bike Jacked at Gunpoint Post by verslagen1 on 10/16/13 at 11:49:41 3620372A32272A31450 wrote:
True,... and, at that point, you are no longer in eminent danger, and you are killing a man over a motorcycle... Self-defense may not old up in court... Is your bike, A, worth killing someone and B. worth going to prison?... I know the guy is a scumbag,... but the police would likely catch up with him sometime soon... You may or my not get your bike back, but that's what insurance is for...[/quote] merely making the belabored point that you don't spit into the wind... wait till it's pointed another way. Someone stooped over to pick up your bike is very vulnerable, and can be convinced to drop his gun if you have yours planted in his ear. And about the point that we cannot be our own lawman... it is legal for a citizen to arrest someone. You had just better be sure about it or you can be yourself arrested for unlawful detainer. |
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Title: Re: Bike Jacked at Gunpoint Post by oldNslow on 10/16/13 at 12:11:33 2432253820353823570 wrote:
True,... and, at that point, you are no longer in eminent danger, and you are killing a man over a motorcycle... Self-defense may not old up in court... Is your bike, A, worth killing someone and B. worth going to prison?... I know the guy is a scumbag,... but the police would likely catch up with him sometime soon... You may or my not get your bike back, but that's what insurance is for...[/quote] When someone has a gun pointed at you the reason he's pointing it at you - stealing your motorcycle, cell phone, wallet, whatever, becomes irrelevant; he's a threat to your life and you are justified in shooting back. Whether you wait to pull your own gun untill he's distracted, points his gun somewhere else etc. is a matter of tactics not law and will be dictated by the circumstances. There may well be situations where you simply can't win and will have to choose not to use your weapon. But that too is a tactical decision based on the situation. You're not shootong someome because he's stealing a motorcycle; you're shooting him because he's a threat to your life. There have been plenty of cases where the victim of an armed robbery handed over whatever the crook wanted and was then shot anyway. Are you willing to trust your life to the good will of a criminal? |
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Title: Re: Bike Jacked at Gunpoint Post by ToesNose on 10/16/13 at 17:31:04 I'm with you oldNslow, I feel that I have the right to protect my life. If someone blatantly puts someone else's life in danger by pointing a loaded firearm at them to commit a crime, they opened the door for themselves to be killed. |
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Title: Re: Bike Jacked at Gunpoint Post by mpescatori on 10/17/13 at 05:28:17 "There have been plenty of cases where the victim of an armed robbery handed over whatever the crook wanted and was then shot anyway. Are you willing to trust your life to the good will of a criminal? " Hmmm... maybe that's the fundamental difference between a latino/whatever robber at gunpoint over there, and a mafioso hitman over here: The latter still has a code of honor. |
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Title: Re: Bike Jacked at Gunpoint Post by oldNslow on 10/17/13 at 07:58:47 Quote:
Exactly right. What we have here in the US is a class of feral savages that our politicaly correct media refer to as "minority urban youths" Almost all of our large cities are infested with them and smaller towns and even rural areas are not immune either anymore. There was a case not long ago in Texas where three of these scumbags - all teenagers - went for a ride and shot and killed a college kid who was out jogging near his school. Robbery was not the motive. When apprehended one of these guys told the police that they were bored and just decided to go out and kill someone. They had no idea who the young man they killed was. They shot him because he was an available victim. When I was working - I'm retired now - I was often compelled by by job to work in locations where I simply refused to go unarmed. One of my co-workers was relieved of his wallet at gunpoint by one of the local cockroaches in one of these areas - fortunately he was not harmed. The cop who took the report told him he was lucky, and that they'd likely never catch the guy. |
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