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Message started by TheProduct2007 on 10/09/13 at 18:55:24

Title: Starting Problem
Post by TheProduct2007 on 10/09/13 at 18:55:24

1996 Suzuki Savage with 12,000 miles.
I recently had to replace the head gasket so I had to remove the engine from the frame. It took a week to fix to reassemble because I lost the circle clip that connected to the cam chain tensior. I reassembled the engine and put it back on the frame. Connected the wires running from the handle bar switches and the gas tank back up. I tried starting it and once I would hit the engine start button it would make one click and then all the lights (including spedometer light and neterual light) would go off until I released the engine start button. I figured it was a dead battery so I put the battery back on the charger and let it charge. I put it back in after a full charge and it did the same thing. What could be the issue?

Title: Re: Starting Problem
Post by verslagen1 on 10/09/13 at 19:09:05

did you take the stator cover off?

have you adjusted the decomp solenoid?

what voltage does the battery charge to?

Title: Re: Starting Problem
Post by TheProduct2007 on 10/09/13 at 19:16:06

I did take the stator cover off. I don't believe I adjusted the solenoid the decomp solenoid. And I'm not sure what the battery charges to. I don't have a circuit tester, the battery charger I use states it upon percentage level of a complete charge. The battery has started with only 50% battery life but that was on a old battery a long time ago. I make sure it's 100%

Title: Re: Starting Problem
Post by verslagen1 on 10/09/13 at 19:42:56

526E635674696273657234363631060 wrote:

I did take the stator cover off.

ding! we have a winner!

There's a washer that falls out when you take the cover off.
you're not likely to put it back in the right spot w/out asking.
the washers go on the pair of gears, not the single gear.

Title: Re: Starting Problem
Post by TheProduct2007 on 10/09/13 at 19:56:34

I know which washer you are talking about. I made sure I connected it before I put the stator back on, it fell off as soon as I took the stator cover off so I made sure i put it back on when I had to put the stator back on. Would that washer really cause one click and make all the lights turn off until I release the engine start button?
I did notice a couple of things that might help.
-The horn and lights will work fine as well as brake switches.
-After continued attempts at starting, there was one time where I hit the eninge start button and the lights did not come back on after I released the button. I also noticed a tiny amount of smoke coming from near the airbox/battery compartment. I instantly removed the battery and quit trying and decided to get on here.

Title: Re: Starting Problem
Post by WD on 10/09/13 at 20:10:33

What washer? No washer fell out of mine... It did take a week to find the single cog's roller though... If I have to open the thing back up for a friggin' washer... oh, yeah, have to open it back up anyway, it leaked out a full sump overnight... :o

Title: Re: Starting Problem
Post by TheProduct2007 on 10/09/13 at 20:17:04

190A4E0 wrote:

I found a washer in mine, its also in the diagram for the stator cover. I think its to prevent the gear from sliding upward and rubbing against the stator cover.

Title: Re: Starting Problem
Post by TheProduct2007 on 10/09/13 at 20:18:38

Just to double check because I'm feeling kind of stupid right now since I've spent a lot of energy working on the bike today.
When you mean "stator cover" are you talking about the generator cover? Where the high powered magnet is located?

Title: Re: Starting Problem
Post by verslagen1 on 10/09/13 at 20:23:05

yup, stator... generator... all the same depending on who you talking to.
the cover where electrons come from.

the single gear doesn't have enough room for a washer.
and if you bolt the cover down with one in there it'll stall the starter.

Title: Re: Starting Problem
Post by WD on 10/09/13 at 20:43:05

I'll double check when I pull the cover off and reseal it.

Knew I should have brought the Panhead instead of the Suzukis and the Honda. Not like I had much choice, the friend I got it from, wanted it back... easy come, easy go. ;D

Title: Re: Starting Problem
Post by TheProduct2007 on 10/09/13 at 21:50:27

So you are saying the washer needs to be removed? If the starter is stalling then it is stalling instantly with the push of the button, that single click sound does sound like it is coming from the starter or at least near it. But what would that explain the small smoke coming from near the battery compartment? What should I do to fix this issue?

Title: Re: Starting Problem
Post by TheProduct2007 on 10/09/13 at 22:03:40

Ok I've gotten a bit confused. verslagen1 I'm not sure what you mean the washer goes on both gears and then state there is no room for a washer.
I went a rechecked my sources for disassembly and reassembly for the generator cover and it through me off.
BikeBandit.com (where I order some of my hard to find parts) shows there is a washer between the gear (next to the starter gear) and the stator case but the manual doesn't show one.

If it is something as simple as this washer, why would my lights shut off when pushing the engine start button?
If I have to take off the stator case will I have to get a new gasket (since I already put a new one on, or can I use RTV on the case?

Title: Re: Starting Problem
Post by verslagen1 on 10/09/13 at 22:42:16

see starter gear #1? the one that looks like two gears stuck to each other? washers go on either side on all '95 and later.
http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/Starter%20Clutch%20Upgrade/starter%20clutch%20old.jpg

Title: Re: Starting Problem
Post by TheProduct2007 on 10/09/13 at 22:47:35

Actually the gear next to it. I remeber there being two small gears one that looks like two (or three) gears connected to each other then one beside it that is near the actual starter gear. I believe they both had washers on them. I know the one near the starter gear does because it was the one that the washer fell off and I put back on.

Title: Re: Starting Problem
Post by TheProduct2007 on 10/09/13 at 22:49:32

5F4C5B5A45484E4C4718290 wrote:

washers go on either side on all '95 and later.

Either side or one on each side?

Title: Re: Starting Problem
Post by verslagen1 on 10/09/13 at 22:50:11

576B6653716C6776607731333334030 wrote:

wrong gear, both go on the front one. that's why the starter won't turn.
loosen the stator cover and suddenly the starter can turn.

Title: Re: Starting Problem
Post by TheProduct2007 on 10/09/13 at 22:51:31

This is also something i noticed just a minute ago. I took the bike off the stand and rolled it in neutral. Its a little harder to move now and I hear something clinking as I move it. I can't tell if its coming from the belt pulley near the engine or the starter case.

Title: Re: Starting Problem
Post by TheProduct2007 on 10/09/13 at 22:55:23

33203736292422202B74450 wrote:

wrong gear, both go on the front one. that's why the starter won't turn.
loosen the stator cover and suddenly the starter can turn.

Do I need to apply remove the fresh gasket and put on another one?
I will do this during the weekend and upload some pictures just to make sure I'm on the same page with you because I don't want to screw up. BTW verslagen1 you've been a great help. I'm trying to get a better undertstanding as to what is going on with it.
Would the starter not turning free cause the lights to shut off though?

Title: Re: Starting Problem
Post by verslagen1 on 10/09/13 at 23:10:40

if you can get the cover off w/out tearing the gasket you can reuse it.
some have repaired a small tear with rtv.

you're stalling a big motor, it's going to dim your lights at least.
if your battery is weak, it's going to do that.

Title: Re: Starting Problem
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/10/13 at 09:28:09

That otta heat a wire up pretty good..

Title: Re: Starting Problem
Post by TheProduct2007 on 10/13/13 at 20:55:07

As ya'll mentioned earlier that I may have put the washer on the wrong gear. I could not find a picture of the alternator case opened but I did find a breakdown picture that shows the inside area of that case. In this pic I have drawn a line between the two gears because it looks as though in this picture they put the three sprocket gear to the right closer to the starter gear and the regular gear between that gear and the crankshaft gear. I circled in red the gear that I put a washer on (on the outside, closer to the crankcase) BUT that gear is not in the same place as the one is in the picture

Title: Re: Starting Problem
Post by TheProduct2007 on 10/14/13 at 13:43:31

Does anyone have a picture of the inside of the alternator cover?

Title: Re: Starting Problem
Post by Steve H on 10/14/13 at 18:54:48

I do but they don't have the torque limiting gear in them. Just the regular ones.

Title: Re: Starting Problem
Post by TheProduct2007 on 10/15/13 at 20:07:31

Which one is the torque limiting gear? Would it go one to the right of the crankshaft gear or two?

Title: Re: Starting Problem
Post by Steve H on 10/15/13 at 20:42:34

The torque limiting gear is the stack of 3 thin gears. It goes closest to the crankshaft and drives the big crankshaft gear with the little gear on the back side of it. If I have read other posts correctly, both washers go on this gear, one on the engine side and one on the cover side. Someone please correct me if I am wrong on this.

Title: Re: Starting Problem
Post by TheProduct2007 on 10/15/13 at 20:50:28

Ok Thanks Steve, that was what I was wondering is if the limiter gear went next to the crankshaft because it looks as though on the diagram it went next to the starter gear.

I've got to drain the oil then I will take off the stator case and trying this again.